critique this split please...
- 04-16-2003, 11:11 PM
critique this split please...
GVT...although I put back and arms together and chest and shoulders...anyone against this?
Day 1 Chest/Shoulders (Monday?)
Inc Dumbell Bench - 10X10
Arnold Presses - 10X10
Dumbell Fly - 3X12
Seat Bent Lateral - 3X12
Weighted Crunches - 3X12
Day 2 - off
Day 3 Legs -
Deadlifts - 10X10
Lying Leg Curls - 10X10
Standind Calf - 3X12
Weighted Pull-ins - 3X12
Day 4 off
Day 5 Back/arms
Chin ups - 10X10
Incline Hammer Curls - 10X10
Close Grip Pull-downs - 3X12
Overhead Tri Extensions - 3X12
Back Extensions - 3X12
Day 6 off
SHould I take day 7 off and start again on monday or start back up w/day 1 after day 6 off....thx
- 04-16-2003, 11:47 PM
actually, looks fine to me bro.. I'm admittedly not very familiar with GVT so I can't offer any personal experience, but I'd switch db shrugs to back day if it were me (just preference), and as you're doing the volume sets approach I'd initially give both days 6 & 7 as rest days, see how your recoup goes, and drop the 7th day later on if you feel you're recovering fast enough. good luck with that ****, I'm sure you'll get more experienced perspectives in here though.
04-16-2003, 11:59 PM
first, have you read this:
i'm against the chest/shoulder thing, too much pressing in one day, plus you're supposed to superset, this would not be good.
my alternative if you want to do shoulders:
day1: incline db press/bent over barbell row 10x10, do 1 set of chest, rest 2 min, 1 set of back, rest 2 min, 1 set of chest, rest 2 min.....
you can do whatever exercises you choose, just make sure they are compound movements
tempo:4 seconds lowering weight slight pause, 1 second up, yep you really have to work that negative or else your wasting your time
the weight to start is whatever you can do for 20 reps with the proper tempo, but you only do 10 per set. if you can't reach ten in later sets, then don't kill yourself trying if you have more sets left. sometimes you will get more reps in set 9 and 10 than 7 and 8. this is normal. don't ask how, it just happens if you picked the right weight, and sometimes it doesn't happen.
after the main superset, do 3 sets of rope press down for triceps supersetted with reverse grip ez bar curls and 3 sets of crunches supersetted with some type of external rotation exercise for your rotator cuffs. you can cut rest between sets to 1 min 40 sec if you want to get out of the gym in less than 1 hour.
day2: squat supersetted with lying leg curls 10x10, 3 sets of seated calf raise supersetted with hanging leg raises (pivot your pelvis to start the movement and hold it there - kind of like thrusting during sex and hold it while raising legs - instead of just bending the legs at the hips). if you can hold legs out, just bend at the knees, you will be plenty sore still.
day3: off yippee
day4: db shoulder press supersetted with pulldown choose either close grip or wide grip, 10x10; 3 sets of dips supersetted with alternating db curl; 3 sets of side bends holding db in one hand, then do other side, superset this with a different external rotator cuff exercise
day5: goodmorning supersetted with leg extensions (go slow on the leg extensions, 2 sec up, 3 sec down, hold i sec at top and bottom), 10x10; 3 sets of standing calf raises supersetted with db shrugs (lift shoulder straight up and down, keep head straight). the reason shrugs were put here was that other days were quite full and it interferes with squats and good mornings and you have two days to recoup after so it doesn't bother you on day1 the next week. if you want to hit upper traps harder, then add a set in the third week and if that goes okay another in the 5th week.
repeat cycle 6 times
only add weight to an exercise if you can do all ten sets for ten reps, then increase by 5%
watch your form, this is really the key, release the weight slowly and feel the muscle working
eat and sleep as much as you can
post workout: .25g protein/lbs lean body mass(if your avatar is you, then use bodyweight), 3 times that amount of simple carbs ie: dextrose or maltodextrin
warm up lightly, just enough to get blood flowing, do a warm up set with 70% of the weight but only do 5 reps
after workout, stretch muscles you worked for 3x30 seconds and any that are tighter than should be, cooldown on 10-15 min light cardio ie: fast walking
don't do cardio while on this and try to keep activity to minimum outside gym
how to do good morning:
place bar on back like squats, bendover keeping the normal arch in your lower back while letting knees bend slightly. reverse movement. this will hit low back and hams HARD so unless you have experience with this exercise, use 80% of your 20 rep max instead of 20 rep max
if your form is just a little off, your set is finished, that's right, we're going to cut it when form fails, not muscle failure.
i think that's it for now, if anyone has questions, all you have to do is ask
04-17-2003, 12:11 AM
if someone is really keen, they can do lateral raises and bent over laterals for shoulders on each upper body day for 2 or 3 sets, but really this is pushing it, i just do the main 10x10 part and ignore the rest, but my core is really strong and i don't care about arms that much as they are strong enough.
04-17-2003, 12:22 AM
hmm, too much pressing in one day, I guess I could buy that. I'm really worried about over training so I would prefer not to lift 2 days in a row while doing this. I suppose I might just try the GVT as outlined in the Poliquin article...
Do you guys do it where you superset the 10x10's or do 10 straight sets back to back...Poliquin seems to indicate either way would be ok...In the past I've just done the sets in sequence, superseting might be something new to try?
Thats me in the avatar, except now I'm about 1% body fat lower, maybe more, we'll see next monday I was at 6.64% this monday and this is my last week of cutting...Current weight is 146 at 5'8. Extreme hard gainer, formerly weighed in the 120s.
If you wanna check my diet its at http://www.anabolicminds.com/forum/s...&threadid=4363 I'm still open to input on that...
04-17-2003, 11:54 AM
Overtraining while "on" won't be a problem if you follow crazypete's outlined program. I've been training 4 days a week, 2 on, 1 off, 2 on now for 4 weeks and am still seeing great gains and no signs of overtraining. After post cycle you can always drop back to your normal regimen.
04-17-2003, 12:22 PM
Crazypete has some good ideas here. When I did GVT, I did chest/back as Poliquin recommends and bascially as crazypete has outlined above. (Probably do it again next winter). I would definitely put squats in there, I actually did not do deadlifts for 6 weeks while doing GVT either.
04-17-2003, 02:08 PM
04-17-2003, 06:10 PM
no deads eh? is this part of GVT protocol? just curious.Originally posted by jweave23
I actually did not do deadlifts for 6 weeks while doing GVT either.
04-17-2003, 08:56 PM
first off, the idea is to superset the exercises. the reason is that when doing the antagonist muscle, it helps the agonist recover faster. also you get 4-5 min rest between sets. trust me you will need this. this is from the mouth of poliquin. some friends and i are poliquin followers (also ian king and louie simmons have influenced us). many of us including myself have attended seminars held by these men and have read all their writings. we all have degees in life sciences (i'm biochemistry, some guys are kinesiology grad students, some are in physio school). sometimes poliquin is not specific enough in his writings, he assumes that people have some background.
second, the reason for no deads is because it is hard to find an exercise to superset with it, also the good morning is a most excellent exercise for the low back and hams. there are also overtraining concerns with deads. as an option one could do romainian deads instead of good mornings (you bends knees slightly as opposed to stiff leg).
as for GVT it is a training methodology not a set routine. i tried to keep all parts of the body in balance which explains the exercise selection. if one does not want to do this routine due to high volume, i would suggest poliquins routine with a slight modification. his goes chest/back,legs,off, arms, off, instead switch arms and chest back around so arms are fresher for chest day (3 days rest vs 2).
04-17-2003, 09:06 PM
don't worry your deadlift will go up a lot without actually doing it. also deadlift is a more technical exercise than squats, so i don't like doing more than 5-6 reps at the most per set, preferrably less. so one can see why i left it out on purpose as GVT requires 10x10. if anyone does this routine, after 6 cycles (in this case 6 weeks) it time to do something else and i can post another routine if anyone wants, just talk to me (i need a little background info to focus on individual needs)
don't worry, the next routine will be based around deadlifts.
04-17-2003, 09:57 PM
04-17-2003, 10:28 PM
that's actually a great idea, i should have caught that (have edited)
just eat loads every 3 hrs, you will grow
quick tip: before bed eat 375g of cottage cheese, if you can't sleep after eating, then start with 125g, if that's okay, go to 250g for a few days, then up to 375g. cottage cheese is the ultimate in night-time nutrition (ain't mother nature grand), it is 100% casein, the slowest digesting protein, it will last you until breakie. plus it's way the hell cheaper and better than any of the **** they sell as night-time proteins. jokes, eh?
04-18-2003, 12:14 AM
makes sense crazypete, thanks for all the details bro... I am quite the fan of supersets, and will probably review the stickies and all pertinent info, and give this a go sometime soon.
04-18-2003, 06:07 PM
Yeah, thanks for the help pete. I've been using cottage cheese before bed for a long time, it rocks!
04-18-2003, 06:37 PM
04-18-2003, 07:01 PM
Yo crazypete I got a question for you about poliquin's regular training chest/back , legs, arms. Do he advocate the use of supersets on that kind of training or he only uses them for GVT 10X10? . I'm looking for a fresh routine or ideas because my 4th week cycle routine is almost up and I need something new, thanks.
04-18-2003, 07:21 PM
yes poliquin likes to superset alot of the time for normal routines. he likes to have his athletes train heavy most of the time and longer rests are required so supersetting helps save time and get you out of the gym within 60-75 min (i like to keep it under 45min). this does not mean that he always supersets. truth is i am making assumptions based on his articles and seminar info. what he actually does with each individual athlete is not known. if he told us all his secrets, he might not be able to charge $350 an hour.
i will post a couple of general routines soon with different volumes. i recomend that everyone reads all of ian king's articles at www.t-mag.com (remember take other articles on that site, especially ones about supplements with a grain of salt).
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