Help Me Structure My Deload

[AntM1564]

I have neglected a deload since Memorial Day weekend, that was my last one. I follow a 5/3/1 PPl program and my main lifts are starting to stall. I have yet to hit a wall on the main lifts (bench, ohp, squat, and deadlift), I have always hit the + sets with more reps than prescribed, but the past few weeks I have barely hit an extra rep or barely hit the 1, 3, or 5 reps required for the week My muscles are recovering, but the weight feels heavier than it should, so I am thinking it is my CNS from not deloading for a long time and because my volume is too high. I also have little aches, such as my lower back currently. After today's session I told myself F it, I am not going to finish this training cycle. What I don't get is my accessory work is still increasing albeit a little more slowly than normal. But I have been lookig at training more as a chore than something I want to do recently. I am going to deload next week instead. It will be a good week for quick workouts because of the holiday, I will have time to go shopping, and I am off work, so extra recovering there.

My question is which method should I use? I have read three different things, here they are:

1. Keep the same weight, but reduce volume I.E. if a bench is 5x5 at 225 lbs, use 225. pounds, but do a 5x3 instead (essentially half the reps with the same weight reducing reps volume)
2. Keep the same weight, but reduce volume I.E. if a bench is 5x5 at 225 lbs, use 225. pounds, do a 3x5, but reduce accessory workload (less number of sets volume)
3. Same as number 2, but drop the weight to 90% of what you would use
4. Keep the same volume, but drop the weight 50-60%

It seems like volume, not weight, is the cause for fatigue.

Here my my routine:

Sunday - Push (5/3/1 bench and ohp) + heavy accessories
Monday - Pull (5/3/1 deadlift) + heavy accessories
Tuesday - Lower - hypertrophy work
Wednesday - OFF
Thursday - Push Hypertrophy
Friday - Pull Hypertrophy
Saturday - Lower (5/3/1 deadlift) + heavy accessories

For Sunday, Monday, and Saturday, I am going to follow the Wendler deload for the main lifts; 3x5 with the warmup weight. However, what should I do for the heavy accessory work and the hypertrophy days?

For the heavy accessories, I am thinking same volume, but reduce weight by 60%

For the hypertrophy days, I am thinking same weight, but reduce volume by 50-60%

Thoughts?

 

[dds]

Do what Jim Wendler says to do...reset ur training max down by 10% and go again, plus change the program/challenge to get a different run at things.

 

[Cgkone]

I keep weigh around 80% of what I normally would push that day and drop volume to 50%.

 

[Anabolikz]

Exactly deloading volume is the way to go as it does contribute more to fatigue like you already stated. You can do it through reps or sets of course but most of the time done with reps to keep RPE lower.

Ex. 1 has worked best for me and I’ve seen mike israetel recommend that as well. I think 3 works good and I’ve tried that one before too

 

[StoneMountain]

Do what Jim Wendler says to do...reset ur training max down by 10% and go again, plus change the program/challenge to get a different run at things.

This. When following 5/3/1, there are multiple ways and methods to get around a plateau. You could either do as dds said, or even retest your maxes and go off of what your newfound maxes are. Or try a different program that 5/3/1 offers.
Jim Wendler also provides deload weeks in his program, and lays out exactly what he recommends on a deload week (ie. use 40-50-60% of your TM on your main lifts for a week).

Edit: Also, you said your accessory lifts are still increasing, just slower than normal. I honestly don't know if I would immediately back off that much weight/volume if they're still going. Maybe back off a little just in case, but that much I'm not sure. Granted, there's probably someone on here who could prove me wrong lol

 

[Whisky]

For anything your hitting 5 or less reps on I’d 100% reduce the weight to 60%. Imo volume doesn’t impact the cns anywhere near as much as weight (id reduce volume too, just making the point that if it’s your cns that’s fatigued rather than muscular fatigue which is what it sounds like then giving yourself a weeks break from the heavy stuff will make a big mental difference).

 

[Anabolikz]

http://www.jtsstrength.com/articles/2013/09/27/fatigue-explained/

 

[AntM1564]

Exactly deloading volume is the way to go as it does contribute more to fatigue like you already stated. You can do it through reps or sets of course but most of the time done with reps to keep RPE lower.

Ex. 1 has worked best for me and I’ve seen mike israetel recommend that as well. I think 3 works good and I’ve tried that one before too

What I am going to do is example on, reduce reps per set, on hypertrophy days. So if a movement is 3x12, I will do 3x6.

On my heavy days, I will deload the main lifts like Wendler suggests. The heavy accessory work, which is in a rep range of 6-8 reps, I will go with option 3, reduce the weight by 90%, I might even do 80% and follow my program as is.

Like I mentioned earlier, it is just the main 4 lifts that have stalled.

What about calories though? I carb and calorie cycle. Should I go with my normal diet, a low carb/low calorie approach, or just replace high carb days with moderate carb days and keep low carb days as is?

 

[Cgkone]

The best programs all have an autoregulation in them. Should be included in either the micro cycle or the meso cycle....depending on length and need.
On another note, you may need an entire block of training aimed and peaking for strength, usually after an entire block aimed at hypertrophy. You body may not be able to break your current plateau having hypertrophy days and strength days in the same block. I know a lot of people do...but when concerned about strength gains an entire training block of 8-12 weeks may need to be devoted to building up to a peak and in my opinion not much hypertrophy work in that block.
But either way deloading regularly is a huge price to breaking plateaus

 

[Anabolikz]

What I am going to do is example on, reduce reps per set, on hypertrophy days. So if a movement is 3x12, I will do 3x6.

On my heavy days, I will deload the main lifts like Wendler suggests. The heavy accessory work, which is in a rep range of 6-8 reps, I will go with option 3, reduce the weight by 90%, I might even do 80% and follow my program as is.

Like I mentioned earlier, it is just the main 4 lifts that have stalled.

What about calories though? I carb and calorie cycle. Should I go with my normal diet, a low carb/low calorie approach, or just replace high carb days with moderate carb days and keep low carb days as is?

That sounds good. I’d suggest trying out cutting volume out at least at some point. The literature seems to favor that route and everybody I’ve told to do that seems to retain performance better on those lifts.

As far as the cals go I’d keep going with what you’re doing. I think it was Eric Helms touched on that point before but he just said it’s for a week if it was for three weeks (more of an active recovery phase) that would be different.

 

[AntM1564]

That sounds good. I’d suggest trying out cutting volume out at least at some point. The literature seems to favor that route and everybody I’ve told to do that seems to retain performance better on those lifts.

As far as the cals go I’d keep going with what you’re doing. I think it was Eric Helms touched on that point before but he just said it’s for a week if it was for three weeks (more of an active recovery phase) that would be different.

On the heavy days, I am going to cut the weight by 10% and cut volume (number of sets) in half. The hypertrophy days, same number of sets, but reduce volume from sets. For example if I was to squat 225 for 12, I would do 225 for 6. Volume will be reduced in half everyday.

This is why I am not sure about calories.

 

[The Solution]

That sounds good. I’d suggest trying out cutting volume out at least at some point. The literature seems to favor that route and everybody I’ve told to do that seems to retain performance better on those lifts.

As far as the cals go I’d keep going with what you’re doing. I think it was Eric Helms touched on that point before but he just said it’s for a week if it was for three weeks (more of an active recovery phase) that would be different.

https://www.thinkinglifter.com/importance-taking-recovery-week-working/

Deloading Your Training Sets

With this method, your goal is to maintain the weights you lift and instead reduce the total sets done for the workout in half.

For example:

If you normally do 4 sets with 225 pounds on the bench for 5 reps, now you would do 2 sets with 225 for 3 reps.

If you normally do a total of 14 working sets for your chest, now you would do 7.

Cut back your repetitions a bit for each set to further reduce volume and don’t take sets to failure.
Deloading Your Training Intensity

When deloading intensity, your goal is to maintain the number of sets you do in favor of less weight lifted. You can go as light half of what you usually lift.

For example:

If you squat 4 sets with 315 pounds for 5 reps, now you would squat 4 sets with 160-170 pounds for 5 reps.

If you usually deadlift 375 pounds for 3 reps on each set, now you would do 185 for 3 reps.
Deloading Intensity and Sets

With this option, you reduce both the weight you lift and the total sets you do for a workout by about 50%.

For example:

If you deadlift 4 sets with 385 pounds for 5 reps each, now you would deadlift 2 sets with 180-200 pounds. Barbell curls with 90 pounds for 4 sets – 45 pounds for 2 sets, etc.

A quick note on the set reps and weight I used as an example:

I realize that your sets likely aren’t static as the examples above and that’s okay. I presented the examples in a simplified way to make things easier to understand.

It doesn’t matter how you usually train that much. Don’t overthink your deload workouts too much.

Choose a weight light enough and do the sets.






During that period, you’d already be in a caloric surplus. And you need to maintain that surplus even during your deload or recovery week.

Since your body is working to recover and grow stronger, you cannot cut the energy supply short.

Also, because of that, It’s not uncommon for you to actually build some muscle mass during the recovery week and actually come back stronger.




as i wrote in the same thread he made here.
It should not be changed

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/307399-deload-nutrition-question.html#post6127826

 

[AntM1564]

https://www.thinkinglifter.com/importance-taking-recovery-week-working/

Deloading Your Training Sets

With this method, your goal is to maintain the weights you lift and instead reduce the total sets done for the workout in half.

For example:

If you normally do 4 sets with 225 pounds on the bench for 5 reps, now you would do 2 sets with 225 for 3 reps.

If you normally do a total of 14 working sets for your chest, now you would do 7.

Cut back your repetitions a bit for each set to further reduce volume and don’t take sets to failure.
Deloading Your Training Intensity

When deloading intensity, your goal is to maintain the number of sets you do in favor of less weight lifted. You can go as light half of what you usually lift.

For example:

If you squat 4 sets with 315 pounds for 5 reps, now you would squat 4 sets with 160-170 pounds for 5 reps.

If you usually deadlift 375 pounds for 3 reps on each set, now you would do 185 for 3 reps.
Deloading Intensity and Sets

With this option, you reduce both the weight you lift and the total sets you do for a workout by about 50%.

For example:

If you deadlift 4 sets with 385 pounds for 5 reps each, now you would deadlift 2 sets with 180-200 pounds. Barbell curls with 90 pounds for 4 sets – 45 pounds for 2 sets, etc.

A quick note on the set reps and weight I used as an example:

I realize that your sets likely aren’t static as the examples above and that’s okay. I presented the examples in a simplified way to make things easier to understand.

It doesn’t matter how you usually train that much. Don’t overthink your deload workouts too much.

Choose a weight light enough and do the sets.






During that period, you’d already be in a caloric surplus. And you need to maintain that surplus even during your deload or recovery week.

Since your body is working to recover and grow stronger, you cannot cut the energy supply short.

Also, because of that, It’s not uncommon for you to actually build some muscle mass during the recovery week and actually come back stronger.




as i wrote in the same thread he made here.
It should not be changed

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/nutrition-health/307399-deload-nutrition-question.html#post6127826

Thanks, Bob. i can always count on you.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I usually will focus more on a higher rep range and go for pump. Maybe 60% of my Max, and instead of 5-8 reps I will go to 10-15. Also I tend to utilize more supersets, bands and opposing muscle groups. Chest and back, shoulder bis and Tris, and legs and calves, but maybe superset my hams with a leg press and quads with a machinr squat etc. I also try to use more machine to give my lower back and cns a break. Instead of going beyond failure, I might take all sets to one or two reps before failure with perfect form.

 

[BennyMagoo79]

50-60% total volume (weight x reps). Can't go wrong.

 

[tyga tyga]

Keep the intensity, deload the volume.