Optimal training frequency

  1. Optimal training frequency


    Do the consensus of studies support optimal muscle hypertrophy to train each muscle group once or twice per week? Also, any consensus on how many days of weight lifting a week is optimal 3, 4, 6? I was reading Jim Stoppani recommends switching every 8 to 16 weeks between training each muscle group once a week to twice a week. This would seem to make sense in terms of supporting periodization and muscle confusion.


  2. Depends, are you natural or assisted?
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by mickc1965 View Post
    Depends, are you natural or assisted?
    I run Sarms and prohormones about 16 weeks a year (split up in 2 or 3 cycles every few months).

  4. Train each muscle 2-3x a week, generally the smaller muscles can be trained more often
    There is probably no way you can train everything this often unless you do full body, so what I normally do is do phases of high frequency each body part that lasts 4 weeks
    I am a carnivore (diet based exclusively on meat)- Here is my diet and training log
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/303950-im-carnivore.html

  5. I think this question is really impossible to answer. It depends on your overall training routine. If you are training to failure with rest/pause and forced reps, etc. your optimal frequency will be much different than if you're doing lower intensity with the same volume, etc.

    Optimal training is difficult to define and a moving target. Your real goal is to find the range where you are seeing consistent improvement, and for most naturals this will be around 1X per week, in my opinion, if they are using high intensity and around 2X per week if they are using a more moderate intensity with lower volume. But it obviously also depends on your own genetics and ability to recover. Some people may only be able to hit a group 1X every two weeks, while others will be able to train 3X per week and still see progress. Too many variables to throw out a specific answer.
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  6. For natty, I always recommend twice a week for most muscles (generally speaking). You can always tweak it to fit your schedule/needs (example would be one day for week point training). I am using one of John meadows routines but revised it to fit my schedule. Basically doing everything twice a week minus arms and shoulders. I follow his rep recommendation and all that goodness. Workouts are killer! Anyway, it took me some time to put down the ego and focus on executing form with frequency. For body composition this seems to be best for me. Iíve been on this training style for maybe 10 weeks. May go back to single days here pretty soon but Iím enjoying it thus far!

  7. The only way to answer this is looking at your recovery. No one here can do that for you unless you provide alot more information. Logs with your weight, nutrition, hours slept and training. Natural or assisted, low frequency, high frequency, low volume, high volume, etc etc it's all depending on your body's ability to recover. Sleep and nutrition play huge role and so do your genetics. The best way to figure this out is keep a training log and auto regulate it according to your progress. Your numbers should be increasing, not staying the same or going down, if that happens you know your not recovering quick enough.

  8. Quote Originally Posted by EMPIREMIND View Post
    The only way to answer this is looking at your recovery. No one here can do that for you unless you provide alot more information. Logs with your weight, nutrition, hours slept and training. Natural or assisted, low frequency, high frequency, low volume, high volume, etc etc it's all depending on your body's ability to recover. Sleep and nutrition play huge role and so do your genetics. The best way to figure this out is keep a training log and auto regulate it according to your progress. Your numbers should be increasing, not staying the same or going down, if that happens you know your not recovering quick enough.
    This. I would suggest optimal is as often as your body can recover from

  9. Quote Originally Posted by EMPIREMIND View Post
    The only way to answer this is looking at your recovery. No one here can do that for you unless you provide alot more information. Logs with your weight, nutrition, hours slept and training. Natural or assisted, low frequency, high frequency, low volume, high volume, etc etc it's all depending on your body's ability to recover. Sleep and nutrition play huge role and so do your genetics. The best way to figure this out is keep a training log and auto regulate it according to your progress. Your numbers should be increasing, not staying the same or going down, if that happens you know your not recovering quick enough.
    Hi man. I keep a work out log, but my weights utilized till failure have generally remained the same. I am working out on a 3 day split. Split up muscle groups Monday through Wednesday, then repeat Thursday through Saturday and take Sunday off. Typical workout last about 60 minutes with 30 seconds to a minute break taken between sets. Each day typically keep rep range anywhere from 8 to 12 reaching failure. I think I am overtraining. I am going to cut back to a 4 day split exercising each muscle group once per week to ensure adequate recovery.

  10. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    Hi man. I keep a work out log, but my weights utilized till failure have generally remained the same. I am working out on a 3 day split. Split up muscle groups Monday through Wednesday, then repeat Thursday through Saturday and take Sunday off. Typical workout last about 60 minutes with 30 seconds to a minute break taken between sets. Each day typically keep rep range anywhere from 8 to 12 reaching failure. I think I am overtraining. I am going to cut back to a 4 day split exercising each muscle group once per week to ensure adequate recovery.
    Possibly. I would either use a DC principle and switch out your excersizes that you aren't progressing with any more, or increase your recovery time between sessions.

  11. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    I think this question is really impossible to answer. It depends on your overall training routine. If you are training to failure with rest/pause and forced reps, etc. your optimal frequency will be much different than if you're doing lower intensity with the same volume, etc.

    Optimal training is difficult to define and a moving target. Your real goal is to find the range where you are seeing consistent improvement, and for most naturals this will be around 1X per week, in my opinion, if they are using high intensity and around 2X per week if they are using a more moderate intensity with lower volume. But it obviously also depends on your own genetics and ability to recover. Some people may only be able to hit a group 1X every two weeks, while others will be able to train 3X per week and still see progress. Too many variables to throw out a specific answer.
    Exactly this ^^^. Your ability to recover plays such a key role in what is optimal for you.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    Exactly this ^^^. Your ability to recover plays such a key role in what is optimal for you.
    You think if I run a prohormone/Sarms cycle of 1 Andro 330 mg, Epi Andro 750 mg, Ostarine 25 mg, Rad 140 12 mg, plus 175mg trt test weekly for 8 weeks I could get by with working out 6 days a week with each body part done twice a week, then after cycle switch back to 4 days a week each body part once a week? What does your workout routine look like when you are on cycle @Whisky ?

  13. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    You think if I run a prohormone/Sarms cycle of 1 Andro 330 mg, Epi Andro 750 mg, Ostarine 25 mg, Rad 140 12 mg, plus 175mg trt test weekly for 8 weeks I could get by with working out 6 days a week with each body part done twice a week, then after cycle switch back to 4 days a week each body part once a week? What does your workout routine look like when you are on cycle @Whisky ?
    There is still an element of individuality but generally you’ll be able to handle more volume on cycle and recover better. Being on increases protein synthesis meaning you need to hit body parts less frequently to lee them growing (but you can hit them harder).

    Personally I’ve used an adapted layne norton phat program split last couple of times but increased the sets and reps a bit.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    You think if I run a prohormone/Sarms cycle of 1 Andro 330 mg, Epi Andro 750 mg, Ostarine 25 mg, Rad 140 12 mg, plus 175mg trt test weekly for 8 weeks I could get by with working out 6 days a week with each body part done twice a week, then after cycle switch back to 4 days a week each body part once a week? What does your workout routine look like when you are on cycle @Whisky ?
    Your approaching this all wrong... Diet and training are paramount, if you don't have those together then everything after is foolishness. Drugs do not make it work.... they make it work better.

  15. Quote Originally Posted by EMPIREMIND View Post
    Your approaching this all wrong... Diet and training are paramount, if you don't have those together then everything after is foolishness. Drugs do not make it work.... they make it work better.
    I don’t know what lead you to the conclusion my diet is not on point. I have my macros dialed in and eat right. I know this is the most important thing and anabolics assist, but are not a magic bullet by any means.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    There is still an element of individuality but generally you’ll be able to handle more volume on cycle and recover better. Being on increases protein synthesis meaning you need to hit body parts less frequently to lee them growing (but you can hit them harder).

    Personally I’ve used an adapted layne norton phat program split last couple of times but increased the sets and reps a bit.
    Interesting so when on cycle due to the increased protein synthesis it is more beneficial to train the muscles less often?

    I will Google Layne Norton’s program you recommended. Thanks.

  17. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    Do the consensus of studies support optimal muscle hypertrophy to train each muscle group once or twice per week? Also, any consensus on how many days of weight lifting a week is optimal 3, 4, 6? I was reading Jim Stoppani recommends switching every 8 to 16 weeks between training each muscle group once a week to twice a week. This would seem to make sense in terms of supporting periodization and muscle confusion.
    We go over this in the most recent podcast(CnP hatecast 20) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BWgOefmm1gg

    Train a muscle group 2 to 3x a week with 4 to 8 sets per bodypart. 3 to 5 x a week training.

    Start there and adjust up or down depending on your recovery threshhold. Although shoulders, Specifically front delts get plenty of work if you are pressing on the regular. Side delts, rear delts and biceps can be hit more frequently for most people. Everyone is different but this should give you an idea. If you have trouble mustering up what exercises to do or if any muscle groups overlap I highly suggest to get nerdy over at https://exrx.net/ They have a dated site, fantastic exercise library.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  18. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    I don’t know what lead you to the conclusion my diet is not on point. I have my macros dialed in and eat right. I know this is the most important thing and anabolics assist, but are not a magic bullet by any means.
    Honestly because you are listing a proposed cycle and asking how it will effect your training split. That's backwards. Not trying to bring you down, but I think your putting the carriage before the horse. @pyrobatt made some great suggestions for you. I would explore those further.
    Chaos & Pain Rep

  19. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    Interesting so when on cycle due to the increased protein synthesis it is more beneficial to train the muscles less often?

    I will Google Layne Norton’s program you recommended. Thanks.
    I wouldn’t say more beneficial, just possible.

    When natty protein synthesis remains elevated within a muscle for around 48 hours after a workout, when enhanced it’s basically all week (I’m using approximation here). Thus if you smash chest on Monday it’s gonna keep growing until next Monday when you smash it again. It’s where the classic bro split of one body part a day came from - that’s what the big boys did, problem is they were juiced up and the natties weren’t. It’s why for natural lifters full body (or at least multiple muscle groups) 3-4 times a week has become the way to go.

    The phat program gives a bit of both.....

  20. For naturals, I will echo that 2 times per week is good, but please, do not be like me and have too much volume.

    Here are some good articles on frequency.

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/ti...ncy-and-volume

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/ti...ain-more-often

    https://www.t-nation.com/training/tr...ning-frequency
    https://performaxlabs.com/
    Use Anthony25 on https://performaxlabs.com/ to save 25% on all products

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    Hi man. I keep a work out log, but my weights utilized till failure have generally remained the same. I am working out on a 3 day split. Split up muscle groups Monday through Wednesday, then repeat Thursday through Saturday and take Sunday off. Typical workout last about 60 minutes with 30 seconds to a minute break taken between sets. Each day typically keep rep range anywhere from 8 to 12 reaching failure. I think I am overtraining. I am going to cut back to a 4 day split exercising each muscle group once per week to ensure adequate recovery.
    Quote Originally Posted by JoePaul39 View Post
    You think if I run a prohormone/Sarms cycle of 1 Andro 330 mg, Epi Andro 750 mg, Ostarine 25 mg, Rad 140 12 mg, plus 175mg trt test weekly for 8 weeks I could get by with working out 6 days a week with each body part done twice a week, then after cycle switch back to 4 days a week each body part once a week? What does your workout routine look like when you are on cycle @Whisky ?
    These two quotes are kind of opposites. I think everyone is getting at here is that you are not getting much out of training (you are staying the same) and now you are talking about jumping on a cycle wi 4th multiple compounds without fixing your training. A natural person will see progress if his training and nutrition are in order. And understanding what it takes to adjust volume/frequency/intensity will be even more crucial on a cycle if you want to get good results.

    You should get your engine running before you start trying to add in a turbo, nitrous, ect. And complicate things.

    I applaud you for being willing to accept you may need to drop back a little.

    How many sets do you do per body part? What are your current strength levels on the compound movements?

    What do you weigh? Are you lean? What is your diet like? What do you do for a living? What obligations do you have outside of the gym?

  22. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    I wouldn’t say more beneficial, just possible.

    When natty protein synthesis remains elevated within a muscle for around 48 hours after a workout, when enhanced it’s basically all week (I’m using approximation here). Thus if you smash chest on Monday it’s gonna keep growing until next Monday when you smash it again. It’s where the classic bro split of one body part a day came from - that’s what the big boys did, problem is they were juiced up and the natties weren’t. It’s why for natural lifters full body (or at least multiple muscle groups) 3-4 times a week has become the way to go.

    The phat program gives a bit of both.....
    This is one way of looking at it, but I can tell you that my best results as a natural come 1x per week when using very high intensity. Sometimes even less.

    I bet almost everyone on this board has taken 2 weeks off of training and gone back to the gym expecting to be weaker only to find out their strength went up.

    Not saying you are at all wrong...just that it may not be the entire story either.

  23. Quote Originally Posted by HIT4ME View Post
    This is one way of looking at it, but I can tell you that my best results as a natural come 1x per week when using very high intensity. Sometimes even less.

    I bet almost everyone on this board has taken 2 weeks off of training and gone back to the gym expecting to be weaker only to find out their strength went up.

    Not saying you are at all wrong...just that it may not be the entire story either.
    No doubt there are definite outliers to everything in training for sure. Personally I just don’t respond well to lower frequency (regardless of intensity), a number of times I’ve reduced frequency to allow for more recovery and I stagnate, my progress seems to come much better on a 5-6 day a week frequency for sure. I also seem to not be adversely affected by longer training sessions (approx 2 hours) than is typically optimal for natties (I.e an hour). My recovery is pretty quick to be honest and I have natural endurance but shockingly bad power output.

    Definitely no one size fits all but just general rules of thumb that a majority fit into.....

  24. Quote Originally Posted by Whisky View Post
    No doubt there are definite outliers to everything in training for sure. Personally I just don’t respond well to lower frequency (regardless of intensity), a number of times I’ve reduced frequency to allow for more recovery and I stagnate, my progress seems to come much better on a 5-6 day a week frequency for sure. I also seem to not be adversely affected by longer training sessions (approx 2 hours) than is typically optimal for natties (I.e an hour). My recovery is pretty quick to be honest and I have natural endurance but shockingly bad power output.

    Definitely no one size fits all but just general rules of thumb that a majority fit into.....
    Well, based on the above, it would make some sense that you probably have more slow twitch than fast twitch fibers - so your momentary output isn't as much on any rep, but your stamina for work at lower outputs is much better. Of course, because you cannot generate the same momentary max output as someone with more fast twitch muscles the "intensity" is somewhat modulated by that factor. Not saying you aren't working hard, just that you are geared to go longer, rather than hard and short. But someone who is more fast twitch can generate more momentary stress and for them to try to do one of your workouts at what they perceive to be 100% intensity would probably be disaster for them. I am geared more for hard and short.

    And this is a perfect example for the OP of how you need to learn the theories so that you can adjust them to yourself - some people need longer sessions more often, other peop
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