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Dmcooper

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Hey everyone! I've been battling forward shoulders and it's easy to notice my internally rotated hands. So I thought I should exercise my back and external rotators to fix it. So that's what I did and I didn't see any results except of course my back got bigger. But then I figured out that lats are an internal rotator.
So my questions are
how are those small external rotators in the shoulder supposed to ever counteract the strength of huge muscles like pecs and lats?
How will I ever be able to fix my shoulders without stopping exercising these huge internal rotators? Because every time I do a chest or back workout it'll strengthen my internal rotators by more than if I just do a few external rotation exercises
 

PaulBlack

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I will try to make my interpretation of this as short as possible...

how are those small external rotators in the shoulder supposed to ever counteract the strength of huge muscles like pecs and lats?
I do not think it works that way really. Otherwise, anybody who worked out would not have to worry about posture. Sure muscles that are toned aid in support, but to rely on them to just hold you in place because they are trained is not necessarily correct (the way I understand it),
you would have to keep them all flexed and boy, would you get tired just standing after about 10 minutes.

If I sit in a position with my arms out in front of me working for say 8 hours a day, (week after month after year) what is going to happen over time is, my pecs and anterior delts (even if I work out) are most likely going to adapt to being shortened by my work position. My back muscles, or rear delts and traps are going to be stretched out more, since my arms are doing work in front of me. Overtime, they will lengthen and adapt to that position. The small extrenal rotators are to keep the cuff muscle stable, not hold your shoulder posture.
I believe, we as humans, have to "consciously" pull our shoulders back and stand erect and adjust our postures so the muscles adapt to a balanced upright position. Just like when a drill sergeant tells his men to come to attention, they go from a more relaxed state, to setting the chest up and out and pulling the shoulders back. I think one can stand at attention (more or less) without really flexing any muscles. I am not saying you have to go to that extreme, but if you change the posture some, over a little time it may allow the pecs to adapt and lengthen and take up some slack in the traps and rear delts, so they shorten and overtime you will just make it a habit to keep your shoulders back more.

Does that make sense at all?
 

Dmcooper

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I will try to make my interpretation of this as short as possible...



I do not think it works that way really. Otherwise, anybody who worked out would not have to worry about posture. Sure muscles that are toned aid in support, but to rely on them to just hold you in place because they are trained is not necessarily correct (the way I understand it),
you would have to keep them all flexed and boy, would you get tired just standing after about 10 minutes.

If I sit in a position with my arms out in front of me working for say 8 hours a day, (week after month after year) what is going to happen over time is, my pecs and anterior delts (even if I work out) are most likely going to adapt to being shortened by my work position. My back muscles, or rear delts and traps are going to be stretched out more, since my arms are doing work in front of me. Overtime, they will lengthen and adapt to that position. The small extrenal rotators are to keep the cuff muscle stable, not hold your shoulder posture.
I believe, we as humans, have to "consciously" pull our shoulders back and stand erect and adjust our postures so the muscles adapt to a balanced upright position. Just like when a drill sergeant tells his men to come to attention, they go from a more relaxed state, to setting the chest up and out and pulling the shoulders back. I think one can stand at attention (more or less) without really flexing any muscles. I am not saying you have to go to that extreme, but if you change the posture some, over a little time it may allow the pecs to adapt and lengthen and take up some slack in the traps and rear delts, so they shorten and overtime you will just make it a habit to keep your shoulders back more.

Does that make sense at all?


I get what you are saying that you will adapt. But to hold a posture I'm not used to will require me to flex my back muscles all day which does get very tiring. Seems like if they were exercised they wouldn't fatigue as quickly.
Will exercising a muscle (back) make it become shorter or will only stretching the opposing muscle (chest) allow it (back) to shorten?
I'm sure both help and if this is true then exercising certain muscles could help posture, right?
I'm also confused on how such small external rotators can counteract huge internal rotators (chest, lats) to keep the arm in the optimal rotation. Not saying that they are constantly flexing but, it seems like the internal rotators would always have a greater force pulling on the humerus at all times.
 

PaulBlack

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But to hold a posture I'm not used to will require me to flex my back muscles all day which does get very tiring. Seems like if they were exercised they wouldn't fatigue as quickly.
Well IMO not really flexing. When I am standing, I am not really flexing my legs to stay upright, but my muscles are more in toned than if I was laying down fully relaxed. When I just mindfully pull my shoulders back and straighten up in a chair some, I am not tensing to the point where I get fatigued so to speak. I think one can practice good posture without it becoming fatiguing like exercise.


Will exercising a muscle (back) make it become shorter or will only stretching the opposing muscle (chest) allow it (back) to shorten?
I don't believe so necessarily. It may aid in toning, but if the muscle is staying more or less relaxed in a certain position (say shortened, or lengthened) day after day, then it adapts to that position.

I'm sure both help and if this is true then exercising certain muscles could help posture, right?
And stretching to keep imbalances from cropping up. I do however still feel that you have to make a conscious effort to keep good posture. Like our teachers used to tell us in school, no slumping in your chairs, sit up straight and pay attention.

I'm also confused on how such small external rotators can counteract huge internal rotators (chest, lats) to keep the arm in the optimal rotation. Not saying that they are constantly flexing but, it seems like the internal rotators would always have a greater force pulling on the humerus at all times.
Well, I don't know all the kinesiology behind them, but they are more to support the shoulder bones and the articulated joint. :)edit correction^ I don't know )
There are moving muscles in the body and also support muscles. One has primarily one job and so does the other.
I guess my point is, a person can have great posture, or poor posture and neither of them have to really work out to get practice just having better posture. Posture, can also reflect one's mood. Body language, (which I am sure you have heard of) can dictate whether or not a person is really happy or sad, so there is a mind body connection if one gets deeper.
 
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