Dumbell BP and Barbell Bench Press

[SlavicStrong]

So, recently, for a couple weeks, I stopped doing barbell bench press, and focused on dumbbell bench press, in order to increase my bench press, as this was recommended to me. People who recommended it, claimed it would help strengthen both my sides, and give my weaker side a chance to catch up. However, after looking online, people say that switching to using dumbbells only is "stupid" and doesn't increase your bench. I am reluctant to believe them, because if I can strengthen my two chests and arms equally, shouldn't I push more? Any thoughts?

 

[tyga tyga]

If you want to strengthen your bench press, you need to bench more (variants, frequency and volume changing)

 

[SlavicStrong]

If you want to strengthen your bench press, you need to bench more (variants, frequency and volume changing)

Would this help though? I've been benching for months, and I feel I should change it up a bit.

 

[cjones426]

It can help...i do more dumbells than flat bench. It makes you stronger because both sides have to work equally..

 

[SlavicStrong]

It can help...i do more dumbells than flat bench. It makes you stronger because both sides have to work equally..

I mean, theoretically, if you can bench 200 for 8, you should be doing 100 for 8 in each arm, right? But this isn't the case. But imagine if you could bench 100 for 8 in each arm, then wouldn't you see your bench go up?

 

[tyga tyga]

Would this help though? I've been benching for months, and I feel I should change it up a bit.

Yes, undulating loads and frequency will absolutely help. You need to look at programs/templates.

 

[VO2Maxima]

Would this help though? I've been benching for months, and I feel I should change it up a bit.

Yeah it should help, in the same way that accessories will help. Basically it'll just get you stronger, and stronger -> bigger bench. You lose some specificity, but it's not a bad idea at all to do it on a secondary bench day or as an accessory. And honestly, unless you're training for powerlifting, it's not like you HAVE to bench...you can use something else as your primary push movement instead (and dumbbell bench would qualify).

 

[tyga tyga]

Just to be clear I'm not saying to NOT db bench.

I'd address sticking points and fatigue first. Also, I think there's better secondary movements; board press, foam press, comp pause bench and TNG.

Accessory, sure use db. I'm looking for the most carry over/spp.

 

[R1balla]

If you want to strengthen your bench press, you need to bench more (variants, frequency and volume changing)

This is spot on. If you are purely focusing on increase in strength on barbell bench, you need to do a variety of things on bench press and incline bench. this is what I like to do when I'm focusing on my numbers.

First few weeks of 5x5 on bench and incline followed by a week of super setting my bench with flys/DB work. After a few weeks of that, I go to 10x10 training for 2 weeks. Once this is done, I stay with reps 2-6 for a while. During this phase, I change my grip, I do negatives, rest pause...etc. I only do this once a year.

 

[SlavicStrong]

This is spot on. If you are purely focusing on increase in strength on barbell bench, you need to do a variety of things on bench press and incline bench. this is what I like to do when I'm focusing on my numbers.

First few weeks of 5x5 on bench and incline followed by a week of super setting my bench with flys/DB work. After a few weeks of that, I go to 10x10 training for 2 weeks. Once this is done, I stay with reps 2-6 for a while. During this phase, I change my grip, I do negatives, rest pause...etc. I only do this once a year.

My goal for dumbbell BP is 100 pounds for 8. Sounds kind of far fetched, I know, but my last workout I did 85 for 8. So once I move up to 90 pound DBs, I'll wait until I get 8 reps, then stick with 90 for a few workouts, then go up in weight. My plan is one I hit 100 for 8, I'll go back to BP and see how much stronger I got on it, since my chest and triceps got stronger.

 

[VO2Maxima]

Just to be clear I'm not saying to NOT db bench.

I'd address sticking points and fatigue first. Also, I think there's better secondary movements; board press, foam press, comp pause bench and TNG.

Accessory, sure use db. I'm looking for the most carry over/spp.

Sort of on topic, but now I'm curious...what are your thoughts on board press for raw bench? Has it helped you? I see a lot of people doing it, but often it's mostly the equipped guys whose shirt gets them past the beginning of the lift and who often miss at lockout. I sometimes feel like it's high for most people's sticking point for raw bench, and ends up being either a tricep accessory or an overload method, but given that the ascent doesn't perfectly parallel the descent (I tend to drift the bar back a bit more ascending, which I don't *think* is uncommon), it's also a weird groove. I often end up using stuff like pin press from sticking point and flat-back close-grip instead, but obviously the weight you're playing with is quite a bit lower (<80% 1RM). Anyway, you're not the first person I've seen suggest it, so I could be missing out.

 

[R1balla]

My goal for dumbbell BP is 100 pounds for 8. Sounds kind of far fetched, I know, but my last workout I did 85 for 8. So once I move up to 90 pound DBs, I'll wait until I get 8 reps, then stick with 90 for a few workouts, then go up in weight. My plan is one I hit 100 for 8, I'll go back to BP and see how much stronger I got on it, since my chest and triceps got stronger.

Not far fetched at all. Very achievable. First thing I recommend is logging your workouts. Many people over look this and think they will remember every set and what weight they did. Log it and when you hit that's muscle again, look at what reps and weight you did and either increase it by 1 rep or increase the total weight by 5 or so pounds for the same reps.

Another thing to consider is the amount of food you eat that day and rest. If one of these two (or both) are lacking, your numbers will suffer as well.

 

[SlavicStrong]

Not far fetched at all. Very achievable. First thing I recommend is logging your workouts. Many people over look this and think they will remember every set and what weight they did. Log it and when you hit that's muscle again, look at what reps and weight you did and either increase it by 1 rep or increase the total weight by 5 or so pounds for the same reps.

Another thing to consider is the amount of food you eat that day and rest. If one of these two (or both) are lacking, your numbers will suffer as well.

I know there isn't really any way to convert this, but once I can do 100 pound dumbbells for 8 reps, what do you think my max bench will be?

 

[tyga tyga]

Sort of on topic, but now I'm curious...what are your thoughts on board press for raw bench? Has it helped you? I see a lot of people doing it, but often it's mostly the equipped guys whose shirt gets them past the beginning of the lift and who often miss at lockout. I sometimes feel like it's high for most people's sticking point for raw bench, and ends up being either a tricep accessory or an overload method, but given that the ascent doesn't perfectly parallel the descent (I tend to drift the bar back a bit more ascending, which I don't *think* is uncommon), it's also a weird groove. I often end up using stuff like pin press from sticking point and flat-back close-grip instead, but obviously the weight you're playing with is quite a bit lower (<80% 1RM). Anyway, you're not the first person I've seen suggest it, so I could be missing out.

My sticking point was HIGH. So high in fact, you could say it was a tricep issue. But yeah, two board addressed it a fair amount. I think I'd start using isometric holds (Stealing from Josh Bryant) for weak/sticking points now though.

Honestly, it's all just another tool for building.

 

[VO2Maxima]

I know there isn't really any way to convert this, but once I can do 100 pound dumbbells for 8 reps, what do you think my max bench will be?

8 reps is way too high to try to guess at a 1RM. You can use a 1RM calculator, but in general, those calculators work far better when you input a 2RM or 3RM.

My sticking point was HIGH. So high in fact, you could say it was a tricep issue. But yeah, two board addressed it a fair amount. I think I'd start using isometric holds (Stealing from Josh Bryant) for weak/sticking points now though.

Honestly, it's all just another tool for building.

Thanks. My sticking point is low...either at or just off my chest, I rarely miss lockout unless I severely misgroove it. Have a really smooth 205, but I miss 210 low. I've been doing pin press with the pins set *right* above my chest, and probably just have to hit chest and upper back isolation work harder...I doubt it's my triceps (can easily triple 225 in the lightest Slingshot, granted you have momentum for lockout with that though). Isometric holds are a good idea...I've done long paused bench a fair bit, maybe I'll try holding it like an inch off my chest and see how that goes.

 

[muddertougher]

Incorporate resistant bands, works wonders

 

[tyga tyga]

8 reps is way too high to try to guess at a 1RM. You can use a 1RM calculator, but in general, those calculators work far better when you input a 2RM or 3RM.


Thanks. My sticking point is low...either at or just off my chest, I rarely miss lockout unless I severely misgroove it. Have a really smooth 205, but I miss 210 low. I've been doing pin press with the pins set *right* above my chest, and probably just have to hit chest and upper back isolation work harder...I doubt it's my triceps (can easily triple 225 in the lightest Slingshot, granted you have momentum for lockout with that though). Isometric holds are a good idea...I've done long paused bench a fair bit, maybe I'll try holding it like an inch off my chest and see how that goes.

I'm strong off the chest, my last comp I drove 282 off my chest easily but couldn't lock it out (@hyde saw this silliness)

Pin presses are great btw, Mike Tuchscherer is huge proponent of them.

 

[tyga tyga]

SlavicStrong

Something I didn't ask, how's your set up? Typically you can add incremental weight from your bench set up alone.

 

[SlavicStrong]

SlavicStrong

Something I didn't ask, how's your set up? Typically you can add incremental weight from your bench set up alone.

Once I hit 8 reps on a certain weight, I go up 5 or 10 pounds. I hit 85 pound dumbbells for 8, so my next workout I'll go up for 90 and get that up to 8 reps.

 

[TheMovement]

Floor Press can aid any lockout issue and doesn't require the use of an extra person or board. I will say I believe you need to consider your reason for Chest pressing in general. I don't care what season it is there's no replacement for bench pressing when you want a strong bench. Are there variations, yes, but are the just as efficient in understanding proper periodization...no. Primary lift is still your primary. I believe the adjustment is always to be considered in the secondary and assistance movements.

 

[SlavicStrong]

The main reason I'm doing dumbbell bench press instead of barbell is so I can get both sides of my chests and arms as equally strong as I can, as I figured this would help on the bench press, which in turn would make it stronger. I was recommended this by some people in the gym, they said it helped their bench, was just asking for your opinion on the subject.

 

[R1balla]

The main reason I'm doing dumbbell bench press instead of barbell is so I can get both sides of my chests and arms as equally strong as I can, as I figured this would help on the bench press, which in turn would make it stronger. I was recommended this by some people in the gym, they said it helped their bench, was just asking for your opinion on the subject.

Increase in calories, working chest more than once a week, squats and deadlifts will help.

 

[VO2Maxima]

SlavicStrong

Something I didn't ask, how's your set up? Typically you can add incremental weight from your bench set up alone.

Once I hit 8 reps on a certain weight, I go up 5 or 10 pounds. I hit 85 pound dumbbells for 8, so my next workout I'll go up for 90 and get that up to 8 reps.

^^That question isn't referring to your progression scheme, it's referring to your actual physical setup. A lot of people lie down on the bench like they're going to take a nap. Regardless of whether you're doing a powerlifter-style bench to maximize weight lifted or a bodybuilding-style bench where other factors (tension on specific muscles, longer range of motion, time under tension, etc) come into play, you still want to be as tight as possible. So for example, I might start my workout with competition-style bench...everything, traps, lats, glutes, quads, hamstrings...those are all tight as hell during the entire lift. Then I might use close-grip as an accessory...despite the fact that my grip changes and arch is significantly lower, my entire body is still every bit as tight. If you learn to keep your back tight, not only will that protect your shoulders to minimize injury risk, but it'll also help to lift more weight.

Then other little tweaks like grip width, elbow tuck, foot position, etc will also make a difference.

 

[Aleksandar37]

The main reason I'm doing dumbbell bench press instead of barbell is so I can get both sides of my chests and arms as equally strong as I can, as I figured this would help on the bench press, which in turn would make it stronger. I was recommended this by some people in the gym, they said it helped their bench, was just asking for your opinion on the subject.

I think this logic applies more to the difference between using dumbbells or a barbell vs a machine. When using a machine, it's easier for one arm to compensate for the other, but you're going to get fairly good distribution with a barbell simply because it still needs to be balanced.

 

[R1balla]

I also like to do reps 2-6 and do a drop set to failure on my final set for flat and incline

 

[Aleksandar37]

Also, are you working out with somebody that can spot you? Hard to push yourself on barbell if you don't have somebody there to help when you go to failure.

 

[TheMovement]

The main reason I'm doing dumbbell bench press instead of barbell is so I can get both sides of my chests and arms as equally strong as I can, as I figured this would help on the bench press, which in turn would make it stronger. I was recommended this by some people in the gym, they said it helped their bench, was just asking for your opinion on the subject.

Can't lie I've never been one to believe in that. Barbell, Db, even a machine it's easy to compensate and still finish the lift.

I would add in Unilateral work. A one arm Db press tested bilaterally will be much more beneficial and you can simply add a few reps to the weaker side and see the strength and balance really get better in a few weeks.

Honestly I feel most people will always have a lag side that's just not as strong as the other. I'm left handed but I can lockout more weight on my right. To aid the asymmetry I "attempt" one arm push-ups. Simple boost that is switched to another accessory 6 weeks afterwards.

 

[SlavicStrong]

Okay, so you say it's wiser to do dumbbell bench press, and barbell bench press at the same time, rather than just doing dumbbells by itself?

 

[R1balla]

Okay, so you say it's wiser to do dumbbell bench press, and barbell bench press at the same time, rather than just doing dumbbells by itself?

Mix it up. I train chest twice a week but if I was doing it once a week, I would do something like this:

Week 1-2: BB flat bench, DB incline, machine decline, machine incline, flat flys

Week 3-4: DB flat, BB incline, same machines, incline fly

You can also do drop sets on the machines, negatives to really put time under tension.

The reason I stress incline so much is because, for me, I see greater physique when working my upper chest more as well as strength increase.

 

[tyga tyga]

Frequency of movement/lifting and undulating loads is going to be your biggest factor.

 

[Woody]

VO2Maxima was Arnold's coach. True(ish) story.

 

[VO2Maxima]

VO2Maxima was Arnold's coach. True(ish) story.

I've aged really, really well.

 

[Woody]

I've aged really, really well.

When you have a really solid program it slows down the aging process. Facts.

 

[Monte_Cristo]

Its very hard to lift with dbs the same weights we lift with barbels not only for the stabilizing factors but for the fact that the brain has to focus on two objects rather than just one.
Big lifts are a matter of head and nervous system as much as muscular work.

 

[SlavicStrong]

Its very hard to lift with dbs the same weights we lift with barbels not only for the stabilizing factors but for the fact that the brain has to focus on two objects rather than just one.
Big lifts are a matter of head and nervous system as much as muscular work.

I've decided to just go back to barbell after about 3 weeks off it. I was able to bench a bit more than I did before, but I think I'm going to attribute that more to the fact I took a rest from the barbell. I did 195 for 8 reps on BB, so my next workout I'll put on 205, and see how long until I get 8 reps on that. I know if you want to become stronger, it's recommended you go heavier with lower reps, but, I have progressed a lot on BB doing this. However that's another thing, maybe if I go lower with my reps now, and lift heavier, I'll become stronger faster, since my muscles are used to around "8 reps worth of weight", so nothing too heavy.

 

[TheMovement]

I've decided to just go back to barbell after about 3 weeks off it. I was able to bench a bit more than I did before, but I think I'm going to attribute that more to the fact I took a rest from the barbell. I did 195 for 8 reps on BB, so my next workout I'll put on 205, and see how long until I get 8 reps on that. I know if you want to become stronger, it's recommended you go heavier with lower reps, but, I have progressed a lot on BB doing this. However that's another thing, maybe if I go lower with my reps now, and lift heavier, I'll become stronger faster, since my muscles are used to around "8 reps worth of weight", so nothing too heavy.

Just find a program and stop wasting time. Stick to a program and actually see your progression and cut out the hopes and maybes

 

[EMPIREMIND]

There is alot of good advice in here. I see alot of younger lifters get caught up on the big three lifts all the time and they think that the only way to get past plateaus is to keep doing the same thing. You need to give your body a stimulus to adapt to. The key is progression. If your bench is stuck, maybe switch over to dips or incline bench and try to progress with that. Or change your rep schemes, intensity or volume. I see guys always trying to get thier one rep max week after week, sometimes multiple times a week. Be patient. Use 2.5 plates or aim to get an extra rep instead of trying to add too much weight. I always see guys pushing to try to get to 315, and they only jump up the weights in larger increments, 25 and 45s. Just stay patient and keep grinding it out. It doesn't happen overnight.

 

[BEAST73]

I use the 1arm dumbbell press technique, to improve my barbell bench press..

 

[SlavicStrong]

I use the 1arm dumbbell press technique, to improve my barbell bench press..

I tried 1 arm dumbbell, but I feel a "pain" on my front deltoid after doing this. This "pain", just felt like lactic acid build up, so I didn't think it was anything, but when I asked about the "pain", they said you shouldn't feel anything in your front delts. Any thoughts? "They" refers to a person I trust at the gym, who recommended the exercise, but then again, I don't trust too many people at the gym, it's not like they're qualified. Anyways, any similar sensation on your front delts during a 1 arm dumbbell press?

 

[VO2Maxima]

I tried 1 arm dumbbell, but I feel a "pain" on my front deltoid after doing this. This "pain", just felt like lactic acid build up, so I didn't think it was anything, but when I asked about the "pain", they said you shouldn't feel anything in your front delts. Any thoughts? "They" refers to a person I trust at the gym, who recommended the exercise, but then again, I don't trust too many people at the gym, it's not like they're qualified. Anyways, any similar sensation on your front delts during a 1 arm dumbbell press?

You absolutely use your anterior delts to bench, so as long as it's just the burn associated with a pump, I wouldn't even worry about it. If it's sharp or stabbing though, that could be bicipital tendinitis, issues with pec/anterior delt, or referred pain from rotator cuff (specifically infraspinatus), so pay attention to what type of "pain" this is.

 

[Aleksandar37]

I tried 1 arm dumbbell, but I feel a "pain" on my front deltoid after doing this. This "pain", just felt like lactic acid build up, so I didn't think it was anything, but when I asked about the "pain", they said you shouldn't feel anything in your front delts. Any thoughts? "They" refers to a person I trust at the gym, who recommended the exercise, but then again, I don't trust too many people at the gym, it's not like they're qualified. Anyways, any similar sensation on your front delts during a 1 arm dumbbell press?

Either that person misunderstood you or you should never ask them for advice again. Your anterior deltoid most definitely going to work while you are benching with a barbell or dumbbell, so it's not odd that you might feel pain.

 

[SlavicStrong]

Either that person misunderstood you or you should never ask them for advice again. Your anterior deltoid most definitely going to work while you are benching with a barbell or dumbbell, so it's not odd that you might feel pain.

The "pain" is more of a burn/lactic acid build up, I'm just guessing it's because I am isolating them a bit more, and they're not used to the load.

 

[Aleksandar37]

The "pain" is more of a burn/lactic acid build up, I'm just guessing it's because I am isolating them a bit more, and they're not used to the load.

You're isolating it more, you're hitting it from a different angle than usual, you're simply trying something new. Any of those could be why you feel a little extra pain, but pay attention to it and make sure that it doesn't persist.

 

[SlavicStrong]

You're isolating it more, you're hitting it from a different angle than usual, you're simply trying something new. Any of those could be why you feel a little extra pain, but pay attention to it and make sure that it doesn't persist.

Speaking of pain, I was going to hit chest today, when I noticed both my triceps hurt, possible a small strain, so I didn't do it today, and instead just worked on calves, and small muscle groups, going light. I've been going to the gym 6 days in a week, 3 on, 1 off, but I feel like this might be too much, think 3 on, 2 off is more suitable?

I have had a tricep strain before, from going 6 days a week. I feel like I might be hitting the muscle group to frequently, not giving it enough time to rest. So maybe it needs 4 days rest, instead of just 3, so being hit every 5 days.

 

[Aleksandar37]

Speaking of pain, I was going to hit chest today, when I noticed both my triceps hurt, possible a small strain, so I didn't do it today, and instead just worked on calves, and small muscle groups, going light. I've been going to the gym 6 days in a week, 3 on, 1 off, but I feel like this might be too much, think 3 on, 2 off is more suitable?

I have had a tricep strain before, from going 6 days a week. I feel like I might be hitting the muscle group to frequently, not giving it enough time to rest. So maybe it needs 4 days rest, instead of just 3, so being hit every 5 days.

It really depends on so many things: your body, your nutrition, the intensity of your training, what movements you are doing, etc. If it feels like injury pain rather than just "normal" muscle soreness from training, I would back off at least for a short while. Give it some extra time and see if that works.

 

[VO2Maxima]

It really depends on so many things: your body, your nutrition, the intensity of your training, what movements you are doing, etc. If it feels like injury pain rather than just "normal" muscle soreness from training, I would back off at least for a short while. Give it some extra time and see if that works.

Yep, good post. I'd also add total volume to that list (though that's sort of encompassed in intensity), as well as sleep and what else is going on in your life outside of training (physical job, lots of stress, etc).

 

[SlavicStrong]

Yep, good post. I'd also add total volume to that list (though that's sort of encompassed in intensity), as well as sleep and what else is going on in your life outside of training (physical job, lots of stress, etc).

This has happened before, when I tried stretching my workout to 6 times a week, with 5 days I never have gotten this pain, with the addition of one extra rest day. However, I've been going 6 times a week for about 2 weeks now, and now is the first time I'm feeling it. BUT, I did do my one rep max a few days ago, and haven't 1 RMed in months, maybe my muscles weren't used to going heavy all of a sudden. I maxed out at 235, but my next workout I am lowering it to 205, which I can do for about 6 reps, with the intention of getting it up to 8 reps, then increasing it by 10 pounds, getting it up to 8 reps, and so on. I will most likely not 1 RM in a while, since I feel it is an easy way to get injured.

As for volume, I try to go 15 sets on my chest, and around 10-15 for triceps.

 

[VO2Maxima]

This has happened before, when I tried stretching my workout to 6 times a week, with 5 days I never have gotten this pain, with the addition of one extra rest day. However, I've been going 6 times a week for about 2 weeks now, and now is the first time I'm feeling it. BUT, I did do my one rep max a few days ago, and haven't 1 RMed in months, maybe my muscles weren't used to going heavy all of a sudden. I maxed out at 235, but my next workout I am lowering it to 205, which I can do for about 6 reps, with the intention of getting it up to 8 reps, then increasing it by 10 pounds, getting it up to 8 reps, and so on. I will most likely not 1 RM in a while, since I feel it is an easy way to get injured.

As for volume, I try to go 15 sets on my chest, and around 10-15 for triceps.

So the thing with a 1 rep, is that it takes more out of you than people sometimes think. First of all, they shouldn't just be thrown in haphazardly, they should be programmed in strategically. Generally there's some type of periodization, where you'll lower volume and ramp up intensity over the course of several weeks (or even months). A lot of programs will have a very low volume taper week leading up to the 1RM attempt too, and the max day is often *just* a max, without back-off work. Increasing frequency and then throwing in a max day is probably asking for trouble. As was stated previously in this thread, get on a real program. You will see better progression, and the program will likely be better balanced overall which will help keep you healthier.

 

[SlavicStrong]

So the thing with a 1 rep, is that it takes more out of you than people sometimes think. First of all, they shouldn't just be thrown in haphazardly, they should be programmed in strategically. Generally there's some type of periodization, where you'll lower volume and ramp up intensity over the course of several weeks (or even months). A lot of programs will have a very low volume taper week leading up to the 1RM attempt too, and the max day is often *just* a max, without back-off work. Increasing frequency and then throwing in a max day is probably asking for trouble. As was stated previously in this thread, get on a real program. You will see better progression, and the program will likely be better balanced overall which will help keep you healthier.

What program would you recommend?

 

[VO2Maxima]

What program would you recommend?

If you can still make linear progression, the absolute fastest way to get strong is something like Candito Linear or Greyskull LP.
If you're beyond that point and are forced to progress slower, you'll still likely do better than you are now (though not as quickly as with the above programs) with something like Texas Method, 5/3/1, or Cube.