Sons Chest refuses to develop and Grow

FloydB

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My son is almost 17, he lifts with me. I only let him lift 4 days a week, we do Chest 2 times per week. Most times until failure, or some 5x5, several different kinds of workouts. For some reason they will not grow? Everything else has develops rather well. Any info, or are some ppl just like that? I think he has become discouraged because he busts his ass, and its like there is no reward. Give us some good advise. Thank You...
 

georgetown

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What kind of grip does he use on bench? He doing incline or decline as well (could help)? Flys? Maybe he can try exhausting the pecs before bench to prevent shoulders and triceps from overpowering. He should make sure his shoulder blades are back and down during bench, squeezing pecs during bench (imagine being able to do a fly movement during bench, that contracts the pecs)
 
FloydB

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We do incline, decline, flyes, he uses a close grip, I've tried to get him to go wide like I do but he won't. We tuck our shoulder blades, and lower back arched. The entire rest of his body is very well developed. I'm guessing he uses arms to much? But his form is pretty much spot on from what ppl say to do on a Powerlifting end anyways.
 
Brandaddy

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If you aren't concerned about strength, do some pre-exhaustions. Something like, superset, 4 sets of 15 reps of cable crossovers with a 1 second squeeze and 2 second concentric with 4 sets of 8 reps of flat bench. Then 4 sets of pec decs to failure super setter with 4 sets of pushups to failure. If that doesn't work, then I don't know man... lol
 
FloydB

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We are going to kinda do what you suggested. It's all free weights here. We haven't ever lifted for reps, I figured more weight the bigger, works for me anyways. I assumed high reps was for cutting or weight ? We are gonna give it a go for a couple months and see what happens. He has been lifting year round for like 3 years now. It must be just how it's gonna be.
 
Brandaddy

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I train almost exclusively for strength and have never had a problem with growth either. It could just be that he isn't pressing with the right muscles. With three years of heavy training I would imagine someone who is benching properly and is consistent with their training should be putting up low 300's. If he's still in the low 200's, he could very well just need to work on some cues/form.
 
Tank999

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Take a weight he can manage 5 reps and push for 6x3. Next week same weight 7x3..8x3....till he hits that weight for 10x3 then raise the weight and start again. Never fails.
Super squats once a week. Take a weight he does for 10 and with deep breath pauses between reps force 20! Add a little weight every week. Guaranteed his chest will grow. Yes from squats!
Just my 2pennies
 
rtmilburn

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I train almost exclusively for strength and have never had a problem with growth either. It could just be that he isn't pressing with the right muscles. With three years of heavy training I would imagine someone who is benching properly and is consistent with their training should be putting up low 300's. If he's still in the low 200's, he could very well just need to work on some cues/form.
Very true could not agree more. At 17 i was hitting 295 easy but couldn't quite get 300 (think it was mental thing) and at 18 was gettting 335 for 2 (probably could have gotten 3). Difference was i was missing cues and had a coach correct them
 
Famine

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At 17, I was hitting...wait for it...185. That's after 3-4 years of lifting. Training regiment, diet, genetics, and hormones make a 17 year old a wild card. My buddy and I lifted every morning before high school, similar diets, similar training...except I looked like a stick bug, and he looked like a young Arnold Schwarzenegger. You might just have to wait a few years...or in my case, 10.
 
Tank999

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Or just eat very well, and do basic compound exercises 3 times a week and not longer than 30-40 minute sessions. That'll grow muscle on a lampost!
 
Anabolikz

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My son is almost 17, he lifts with me. I only let him lift 4 days a week, we do Chest 2 times per week. Most times until failure, or some 5x5, several different kinds of workouts. For some reason they will not grow? Everything else has develops rather well. Any info, or are some ppl just like that? I think he has become discouraged because he busts his ass, and its like there is no reward. Give us some good advise. Thank You...
Depends on how long he has been lifting for and how developed his bench is.. For example, if his bench has milked out linear gains and been training for a couple years on top of it and his body fat is low enough to reveal development in his chest there might be an issue. But most people blame something on their genetics, form, when they don't have the strength on the basic movement to begin with.

If he has developed his bench enough then it might be time to start looking at his motor patterns on the bench to make sure the delts and tris aren't dominating the movement.

You've said that the way he sets up could be an issue and very well could be true since you said his grip is narrow..

Alberto Nunez does a very good job at teaching how to recruit the chest during pressing movements. Search: can't feel your chest in the bench press? Alberto Nunez

Also activation exercises are useful in learning how to recruit muscles maximally. Use them before main compound movements but don't exhaust the muscle only "prime" the muscle as BPAK shows search:Ben Pakulski chest muscle activation exercise..

It wouldn't let me post links as my post count isn't high enough
 
FloydB

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We started with Flyes, and doing more of them. He is flexing the chest at the top of the lift to ensure he is incorporating the muscle. We are gonna go a little lighter in weight for a month or so to see if he grows any. On chest day we will be doing flyes, flat bench, incline, and decline. We have only been doing 2 of these and switching it up for once a week. I want to hit it 2 times a week, and go lighter to ensure he is working the chest instead of the arms and see what this gets us. Thanks for the help.
 

210LBS

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We do incline, decline, flyes, he uses a close grip, I've tried to get him to go wide like I do but he won't. We tuck our shoulder blades, and lower back arched. The entire rest of his body is very well developed. I'm guessing he uses arms to much? But his form is pretty much spot on from what ppl say to do on a Powerlifting end anyways.
I agree with what others are saying about trying a pre exhaust method for chest. When you say you are arching your lower back, do you mean on bench presses or flyes? Your lower back should only be arched on flyes and should flat against the bench on bench presses. If he is arching his back a lot, it would be possible that he is taking tension out of his chest and placing it into his lower back.
 
Matthew1237

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Without talking about diet at all. I'm going to assume that's 2here the problem is.
 
Rndmher

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Listen when I first started I couldn't get past really 185 and my problem was that I didn't really understand progressive overload. Every time you have to "win" your training sessions. Go up 5 lbs every time you bench(2.5 each side) it's hardly noticeable and will get you through your plateau.
 
Anabolikz

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"Pre exhausting" has been studied and has proven to be inferior to hitting compound movements first. I would try to get him to recruit his chest more effectively during his presses. Activation exercised like I listed above will allow him to practice Contracting his chest without wearing himself out.. Pre exhaustion will just impact his performance on more important lifts and also decrease total volume.

Of course general form cues will help out a lot the video of Alberto is really good for this. Teaches chest out shoulders back and accents the elbow coming across the body.
Also look up a D Roy raise pretty good for teaching how to squeeze the chest.

These things are a better option than doing flys before hand and exhausting the pecs before your pressing
 

210LBS

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"Pre exhausting" has been studied and has proven to be inferior to hitting compound movements first. I would try to get him to recruit his chest more effectively during his presses. Activation exercised like I listed above will allow him to practice Contracting his chest without wearing himself out.. Pre exhaustion will just impact his performance on more important lifts and also decrease total volume.

Of course general form cues will help out a lot the video of Alberto is really good for this. Teaches chest out shoulders back and accents the elbow coming across the body.
Also look up a D Roy raise pretty good for teaching how to squeeze the chest.

These things are a better option than doing flys before hand and exhausting the pecs before your pressing
I would be interested in seeing those studies if you have any links. The only studies I've seen on it are totally bogus. I remember on 2 studies they came to the conclusion that pre exhaust doesn't work because once you hit the compound movement your secondary muscles are activated more than the primary muscle. The study didn't make any sense though because that is technically what you want. You want your pecs to reach early failure on the bench press after a pec fly, which means your triceps end up with more stimulation.
 
scherbs

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. The study didn't make any sense though because that is technically what you want. You want your pecs to reach early failure on the bench press after a pec fly, which means your triceps end up with more stimulation.
Which would be contrary to building the CHEST
 

210LBS

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Which would be contrary to building the CHEST
Hmm not sure you understand what I'm trying to say. The triceps get more stimulation on bench press because the chest is already fatigued. That indicates that the chest hit failure earlier on the bench press. If you don't do the pre exhaust it's quite possible that ones chest won't hit failure at all.
 
BennyMagoo79

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Take a weight he can manage 5 reps and push for 6x3. Next week same weight 7x3..8x3....till he hits that weight for 10x3 then raise the weight and start again. Never fails.
Super squats once a week. Take a weight he does for 10 and with deep breath pauses between reps force 20! Add a little weight every week. Guaranteed his chest will grow. Yes from squats!
Just my 2pennies
This. Also, pin press or block press or floor press for accesory movement. Also, keep an arched back, flat back pressing is how i ruined my shoulder, the idea behind the arch is for superior lat engagement at the transition, as opposed to using RC muscles.
 

210LBS

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This. Also, pin press or block press or floor press for accesory movement. Also, keep an arched back, flat back pressing is how i ruined my shoulder, the idea behind the arch is for superior lat engagement at the transition, as opposed to using RC muscles.
I never arch my back on the bench press - not even in the slightest. I understand what you mean by the RC and lat engagement, because I have seen many people who can't seem to engage their abs to press their lower back into the bench while also being able to fully retract their shoulders. I have never had a problem doing that but I've seen several lifters who cannot do it. I don't know if it has something to do with different bodies, heavier weights, or whatever but it is one of those mysteries to me.
 

enraged_chris

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Imo, bench is an inferior chest builder. I found the only form of bench that helped my chest grow was neutral grip dumbbell pressing while letting the dumbbells sink very deep. DB flys and pullovers are some great movements for size.
 
Tank999

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The safest movement that isolates the chest muscles without overly endangering the delts etc is of course the pecDec. You can grow enormously by doing 6 sets heavier x6 then drop the weight and do 10x15. Nothing else needed except food and rest
 

210LBS

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I love flies too but was never a big pullover fan for chest. It always felt more like a lat exercise than a chest exercise to me. Maybe I should revisit that onw as it had been years since I've done it.
 

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It's definitely more of a lat movement but I noticed good results with my chest as well.
 

georgetown

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The safest movement that isolates the chest muscles without overly endangering the delts etc is of course the pecDec. You can grow enormously by doing 6 sets heavier x6 then drop the weight and do 10x15. Nothing else needed except food and rest
You saying 10 lighter sets of 15 reps? So 16 sets of pec dec?
 
Tank999

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You saying 10 lighter sets of 15 reps? So 16 sets of pec dec?
16 sets total. 6x6 as heavy and careful as possible. Then drop the weight down and do 10x15. Eat protein. Get sleep. Grow like a monster.
 

210LBS

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It's definitely more of a lat movement but I noticed good results with my chest as well.
I don't doubt it. I believe Arnold loved that exercise for chest. Some reason I just can't get that burn into my chest. My mind keeps focusing on the lats. It's probably a mind muscle connection error on my end.
 

enraged_chris

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I don't doubt it. I believe Arnold loved that exercise for chest. Some reason I just can't get that burn into my chest. My mind keeps focusing on the lats. It's probably a mind muscle connection error on my end.
Just because you're not feeling as much of a burn doesn't mean the muscle isn't getting worked well too. I also take a bit of a different attitude to hypertrophy training since I'm a powerlifter.
 
Anabolikz

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I would be interested in seeing those studies if you have any links. The only studies I've seen on it are totally bogus. I remember on 2 studies they came to the conclusion that pre exhaust doesn't work because once you hit the compound movement your secondary muscles are activated more than the primary muscle. The study didn't make any sense though because that is technically what you want. You want your pecs to reach early failure on the bench press after a pec fly, which means your triceps end up with more stimulation.
I know the Pec deck and chest press study that you are talking about. Activation in the target muscle (pecs) was no greater in the pre fatigued muscles in the chest press. So doing a fly beforehand did not help activation in the pecs which is what we are trying to achieve.

(I can't link the studies not enough posts)

Gentil P1, Oliveira E, de Araújo Rocha Júnior V, do Carmo J, Bottaro M. J Strength Cond Res. 2007


Years later interpreted that research the same way. This is a review on exercise order in general

Simão R, et al. Sports Med. 2012

This is probably one of the other ones you were talking about pre exhausting quads leg extension and then doing leg press after.


Augustsson J1, Thomeé R, Hörnstedt P, Lindblom J, Karlsson J, Grimby G J Strength Cond Res. 2003


"The activation of the rectus femoris and vastus lateralis muscles during the leg press exercise was significantly less when subjects were pre exhausted."


So again the activation of the pre exhausted muscles were less on the compound movement when target muscles were pre exhausted..


Not only that but in this study the researchers noted that "in a pre-exhausted state the subjects performed significantly less repetitions of the leg press exercise" as I stated before it would surely cause a dip in performance and thus a decrease in volume.

If pre exhaustion will decrease total training volume it will definitely decrease results as volume is considered by researchers to be one of, if not the most important variable in training for size.
 
BoloYeung1

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Imo, bench is an inferior chest builder. I found the only form of bench that helped my chest grow was neutral grip dumbbell pressing while letting the dumbbells sink very deep. DB flys and pullovers are some great movements for size.
Pullovers are great. IMO it takes time to figure them out and get a good mind muscle connection. Once I dropped my ego and went from a 40lb db to a 20-25lb db, I was able to feel it better in my lats as well as switch the tension to the lower lats to the ribcage muscles. Slow and steady, breathe deep and into the chest/ribs, lower the db behind, hold and then drop the hips to stretch and expand the ribcage. Great finisher movement especially after high 20+ rep squats.
 
WAF

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My son is almost 17, he lifts with me. I only let him lift 4 days a week, we do Chest 2 times per week. Most times until failure, or some 5x5, several different kinds of workouts. For some reason they will not grow? Everything else has develops rather well. Any info, or are some ppl just like that? I think he has become discouraged because he busts his ass, and its like there is no reward. Give us some good advise. Thank You...
So you work out 4 times a week yet hit chest twice? Drop a chest workout and hit legs if you guys aren't doing that. Two biggest issues your son might have is:
-Proper nutrition and amount of food indgested
-Genetics... everyone has potential lacking parts by genetic make over.
 
BoloYeung1

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If he is 17, and wants size, and strength have him eat 3 whole meals of chicken, beef, or fish with green veggies and pasta. Add in 2 protein shakes mixed in with whole milk for snacks in between. Dinner for breakfast repeat x2 for lunch and dinner. Plenty of eggs and whole milk. Big compound movements with emphasis on form form form form. There is a good podcast called mind force radio, episode bulking for young athletes. If he is young and has a good metabolism, I'm sure he will put on size no problem by eating this way.
 

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