5x5 vs 5/3/1 thoughts?

[Joe12]

Title says it all. Have you had experience with both and what did you think. FYI, as a kid (15 yrs ago) I began with 5x5.

 

[DeBoe40]

Are you looking for a new strength program?

 

[DeBoe40]

Check out Jacked Street by Power Athlete. It's goooooooooood stuff.

 

[CJNator]

I jumped the gun lol what are your goals?

 

[Joe12]

Are you looking for a new strength program?

Just trying to find the best. I am currently working 5x5 into my normal 10rep routine.

Check out Jacked Street by Power Athlete. It's goooooooooood stuff.

Nice! I'll check it out!

 

[Joe12]

5x5 high volume is better for beginners

5/3/1 didn't look that advanced to me. Have you tried it? I'm working in 5x5 for squats and bent over rows.

 

[DeBoe40]

I liked 5/3/1. But any program power athlete has is awesome. The only draw back is you have to pay monthly. But it is well worth it. I have been following there programs for 2 years now. Great gains all around.

 

[Joe12]

I jumped the gun lol what are your goals?

Trying to get stronger on my major lifts, while still doing the sexy rep range, haha!

 

[DeBoe40]

Google John Welbourn. He is the creator of power athlete and a 10 year NFL offensive lineman. He and his team know there stuff. They prioritize the big lifts every week.

 

[CJNator]

Trying to get stronger on my major lifts, while still doing the sexy rep range, haha!

How much do you lift for your big 3? If you lift pretty heavy imo 5/3/1 with some secondary exercises would be good.

 

[Joe12]

honestly, I don't max any more. But if I had to guess I would say bench 250, squat 300, DL 315... But that's just a swag.

 

[CJNator]

honestly, I don't max any more. But if I had to guess I would say bench 250, squat 300, DL 315... But that's just a swag.

Id say stick with 5x5, deadlift is definitely way too weak compared to your squats.

 

[Joe12]

Id say stick with 5x5, deadlift is definitely way too weak compared to your squats.

It was a guess, I don't DL

 

[CJNator]

It was a guess, I don't DL

Ah ok lol well then id say 5/3/1 there are strength calculators online if you want to calculate your what you can hit for 5 3 1 reps and start of a little lighter then the calculations.

 

[DeBoe40]

Try the Trap Bar DL

 

[Juicedeez utz]

I lived and died by 5x5 for a year, with a couple of low rep heavier days, got me where I am today! 5/3/1 would only be good for strength, not size.... Still if you want strength, I'd go for a warm up and 3x2 on 85%. All depends what you're looking for

 

[PaulBlack]

Have you had experience with both and what did you think. FYI, as a kid (15 yrs ago) I began with 5x5.

I don't think there is a so called better one. They each have a place IMO.
5x5 is good (I still use them to some extent to this day after 25 years) and maybe okay for beginners I suppose, but I might think a little higher rep scheme (8-10) would be good for absolute beginners to nail forms on the compounds (especially on squats and deads) at least for a little while. Then proceed to heavier working loads as in 5x5, that give more ability to get powerful as one advances.
There are also a few differing ways to do 5x5's besides sets across, that can have you building more total tonnage and work volume. ie; peak set then back off, working up to top set only etc. etc. 5x5 in general, is more of a set up or outline than an actual routine, unless it is say a Starr 5x5 or Rippetoe's SS or something.

531 is good for someone having more time under their belt and more knowledge of the compounds and some better programming. Also the ability to handle and work with heavier top singles and low reps with accuracy, safety and control.
As far as 531 just being exclusively for strength, I might disagree, since size comes a lot from eating and with AMRAP in some of the set ups, you are getting some volume as well. Also, accessory work, can give you more volume and mass as well.

 

[bruno.camilo]

Both programs needs a training partner, so i say **** them both :run:

 

[Joe12]

Both programs needs a training partner, so i say **** them both :run:

Naaa man, I do 5x5 for squats and bent over rows right now, and don't have a training partner.
PaulBlack I normally do 3 exercises per body part, right now I am doing 4 sets of 10 for two movements, and 5x5 for one. Figured I could get the best of both worlds, strength is being built, and I also get the BB rep range for additional cut/size. For a LONG time I did 10/8/6/4 on almost everything except my arms, I got strong as ****.

 

[bruno.camilo]

Naaa man, I do 5x5 for squats and bent over rows right now, and don't have a training partner.
PaulBlack I normally do 3 exercises per body part, right now I am doing 4 sets of 10 for two movements, and 5x5 for one. Figured I could get the best of both worlds, strength is being built, and I also get the BB rep range for additional cut/size. For a LONG time I did 10/8/6/4 on almost everything except my arms, I got strong as ****.

impossible benching 5x5 or 5 3 1 without partner ... If u do it correctly and using heavy weights.

 

[Rodja]

Both programs needs a training partner, so i say **** them both :run:

Nearly every strength program needs a training partner. What's your point?

 

[PaulBlack]

PaulBlack I normally do 3 exercises per body part, right now I am doing 4 sets of 10 for two movements, and 5x5 for one. Figured I could get the best of both worlds, strength is being built, and I also get the BB rep range for additional cut/size.

Sounds like a plan. I don't think anything is set in stone as too many lifters over the years have used differing protocols et al and made things work. The real bottom line will be progression of some kind, be it strength, mass, shape, fitness...

For a LONG time I did 10/8/6/4 on almost everything except my arms, I got strong as ****.

Oh yes the old pyramid stuff. I got strong doing pyramids as well. I think it is just working down to a low rep number and your body/nervous system adapting to a heavier and heavier push/pull.

That said, another way to build mass/ volume/ strength and get the tonnage up is to use "ladders". ie: say chins- 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,2,1,2,1,2,1= 25 total reps. Instead of burning out trying to rep out. I have rested anywhere from 20-30 seconds between rep blocks to as much as 60 secs, if I say have a #50 weight on a belt. As one moves along in W/O's, you can, add reps say 2,3,4,5,4,3,2 or, add weight, or jam the sets closer or all the above. Ladders are fun don't get you bored with certain exercises and work quite well to bump volume and loads on especially tougher exercises.

 

[Joe12]

impossible benching 5x5 or 5 3 1 without partner ... If u do it correctly and using heavy weights.

If I roll with 5x5 on bench I'll ask one of the guys to spot me on my last two sets.

 

[Joe12]

Sounds like a plan. I don't think anything is set in stone as too many lifters over the years have used differing protocols et al and made things work. The real bottom line will be progression of some kind, be it strength, mass, shape, fitness...


Oh yes the old pyramid stuff. I got strong doing pyramids as well. I think it is just working down to a low rep number and your body/nervous system adapting to a heavier and heavier push/pull.

That said, another way to build mass/ volume/ strength and get the tonnage up is to use "ladders". ie: say chins- 1,2,3,4,1,2,3,2,1,2,1,2,1= 25 total reps. Instead of burning out trying to rep out. I have rested anywhere from 20-30 seconds between rep blocks to as much as 60 secs, if I say have a #50 weight on a belt. As one moves along in W/O's, you can, add reps say 2,3,4,5,4,3,2 or, add weight, or jam the sets closer or all the above. Ladders are fun don't get you bored with certain exercises and work quite well to bump volume and loads on especially tougher exercises.

I am a chin up guy. Normally begin with 12 straight, then put on 20lbs and do 5x5, and burn out with 2 sets without weight. I have always wanted to try the ladder workout. Maybe I'll give it a shot tomorrow, back and bi day!

 

[JRowe79]

I prefer 5/3/1 mainly because I like the increasing weight and decreasing intensity to handle higher weight.

 

[Tank88]

I'd say go with 5X5, have a look at one of the recent issues of Flex magazine (think they posted the article online now as well) where you do 5x5 for five weeks, then 3x3 for three weeks and 2x2 for two weeks. I just finished this program and the gains from this were really good.

 

[PaulBlack]

where you do 5x5 for five weeks, then 3x3 for three weeks and 2x2 for two weeks.

Tank, just curious...
How do they set up the weeks ie: what is your starting percentage at say week 1? 65%-72-75-77-80%? by wk 5 maybe?
How many times per week and do they do a heavy work day, then a lighter recovery?
I can see this working like a Smolov or Smlv Jr, or the Russian percent program where they whittle down your higher rep volume to lower your strength to rep ratios.

 

[DeBoe40]

Crossfit Football is a strength program (linear progression) with conditioning. And it's free

 

[Rodja]

Crossfit Football is a strength program (linear progression) with conditioning. And it's free

Ummmm....ok? Why would a Crossfit or a football program be recommended for increasing a total?

 

[DeBoe40]

He wants to increase strength. Crossfit football uses a linear progression which is awesome for increasing strength. Plus throws in conditioning which we all need.

Just a recommendation. Nothing else. An alternative.

 

[DeBoe40]

I've increased just my squat by 50lbs over past 3-4 months using a linear progression. Squatting twice a week adding 5lbs every time, doing 3 sets of 5 reps. Not world record numbers but I'm happy with the strength gains

 

[Rodja]

He wants to increase strength. Crossfit football uses a linear progression which is awesome for increasing strength. Plus throws in conditioning which we all need.

Just a recommendation. Nothing else. An alternative.

You know that 5/3/1 has conditioning programmed as well, right?

 

[DeBoe40]

Yes, I've done that. Joe12 was just looking for something different. Hence the suggestion for Crossfit Football.

 

[Rodja]

I just don't get why you keep recommending football programs when the OP has no football related goals.

 

[DeBoe40]

What is op? It's not a football program. It is a strength and conditioning program that translates to all parts of life.

 

[DeBoe40]

I was instant messaging with him a few days ago. Not sure if he has landed on a choice so just throwing more options to him.

 

[Joe12]

You know that 5/3/1 has conditioning programmed as well, right?

I have been reading about 5/3/1, but I didn't see the conditioning portion there. Can you share a link?

 

[DeBoe40]

It's an add on in the book. He has a prowler program

 

[DeBoe40]

Beyond 5/3/1 book he has different programs you do with 5/3/1

 

[Rodja]

OP, you need true, recent maxes for 5/3/1. They're literally the basis of the program. Without them, you can't get accurate working numbers.

If you're looking to just get stronger, start with something very simple and keep recycling the program. People don't realize that the main lifts and the volume/intensity don't really change that much. It's primarily the accessories that change as weaknesses are exposed and technique is improved.