Romanian Deadlifts

[AntM1564]

What is the difference when performing these dead off the floor versus keeping constant tension and not letting the plates rest on the ground? I am talking in terms of muscle engagement.

 

[bstabz]

When you come from the floor it incorporates more lower back and glutes. Keeping tension will hit more hammy than lower back, and glutes.

 

[Rodja]

They're different lifts at that point.

 

[Cgkone]

For me....ARNOLD said to the floor or farther..

 

[AntM1564]

They're different lifts at that point.

Could you explain a little further?

 

[Rodja]

Could you explain a little further?

There's no stretch reflex involved when you go to a dead stop and it's easier to lose tension. Muscular activation is going to depend on technique and body type.

 

[Hyde]

Why would you do dead stop Romanians? Most people use them as a constant tension posterior strengthening exercise, whether that be for mass or strength.

Resetting a traditional deadlift (conventional or sumo) is used to intentionally eliminate any stored energy from the eccentric, so the next rep is again a "dead" weight to be pulled. People go back and forth as to whether that's ideal or not. But an RDL is arguably closer to a good morning than a traditional deadlift.

You're not talking about stiff leg deadlifts, right? An astounding number of people confuse the two. A stiff leg is where you simply bend at the waist with near straight legs and pull w the erectors dominantly (an intentionally crappy deadlift, really). Romanian is where you push the glutes back and generally the load is shifted heavily into the hams and glutes.

 

[clk]

I do them from a dead stop bc (in my mind at least) I want to be strong at breaking objects off of the floor from a dead strop more than anything else. So I train my deads and rdl's in a similar fashion. (There's no science or study here. It just seems to make sense in my head lol) Doing strongman and powerlifting, it's imperative to be strong off the floor.

 

[PaulBlack]

RDL's originally as indicated by some posts above is an exercise for the hams and glutes where you keep tension or the area loaded ie: with tension thru out the set. This opinion too, by some anyway, is safer than starting relaxed at each rep. Especially heavier loads (you're staying tight and feel control as you fatigue) and since you are not using much bent leg, therefore not much help from the quads off the floor, so as to not overpull your hams.
Most demos recommend to lower to around mid shin (all you really need) then back up to l/o. Low back straight or arched some, with the butt sliding back and loading and using almost exclusively the hams and glutes to then shorten and upright the torso.
I usually did rep/set work anywhere from 5-12 reps 3-4 sets perhaps.

 

[Hyde]

I do them from a dead stop bc (in my mind at least) I want to be strong at breaking objects off of the floor from a dead strop more than anything else. So I train my deads and rdl's in a similar fashion. (There's no science or study here. It just seems to make sense in my head lol) Doing strongman and powerlifting, it's imperative to be strong off the floor.

I use them the way PaulBlack described in the post above this one, but I can see purely for a strength accessory the argument in your case. As to OP's question on muscular development, obviously TUT is king.

 

[Cgkone]

Why would you do dead stop Romanians? Most people use them as a constant tension posterior strengthening exercise, whether that be for mass or strength.

Resetting a traditional deadlift (conventional or sumo) is used to intentionally eliminate any stored energy from the eccentric, so the next rep is again a "dead" weight to be pulled. People go back and forth as to whether that's ideal or not. But an RDL is arguably closer to a good morning than a traditional deadlift.

You're not talking about stiff leg deadlifts, right? An astounding number of people confuse the two. A stiff leg is where you simply bend at the waist with near straight legs and pull w the erectors dominantly (an intentionally crappy deadlift, really). Romanian is where you push the glutes back and generally the load is shifted heavily into the hams and glutes.

I'm actually one of the ones who confused them.
Thanks for clarifying

 

[Hyde]

I'm actually one of the ones who confused them.
Thanks for clarifying

No problem, took me years to learn that: people refer to the 2 interchangeably often, and they are totally different. RDLs is a glute/ham dominant move pushing the butt back, and SLDL is just what it sounds: an erector-heavy nearly straight leg pull out of position. SLDL is definitely the more dangerous of the 2 - loading needs to be kept away from failure so the spine doesn't actually flex during the pull as you fatigue (it's already in flexion with an SLDL to begin with for most people).

 

[MrKleen73]

Doing an RDL from the floor already has a name though. Dead Lift. An RDL is basically a DL without the pressing movement of the legs to break it from the floor. If from the floor it is a DL.

 

[Cgkone]

One more time can someone break down the difference if there is one

 

[Hyde]

One more time can someone break down the difference if there is one

Doing an RDL from the floor already has a name though. Dead Lift. An RDL is basically a DL without the pressing movement of the legs to break it from the floor. If from the floor it is a DL.

Kleen got you covered here. RDL uses a lot of glute/ham to move the weight, SLDL uses predominantly low back. Combining them with a leg press at the start is basically a conventional deadlift.

 

[PaulBlack]

My opinion and what I learned was, as far as Romanian Deads, the difference is a "slightly bent" fixed knee position, you do not lower to floor, your butt goes back to stretch the hams and some glute action. The arch in the low back is pretty pronounced and fixed. I do not use that kind of arch when I pull a reg deadlift.
http://www.bodybuilding.com/exercises/detail/view/name/romanian-deadlift

In a reg BLDL or an SLDL, there is more low back and especially bent legged more full leg drive movement. I am using more muscles in those 2 lifts than just contracting my hams and glutes in an RDL, to upright my torso.

 

[Rodja]

Don't major in the minors. SLDL and RDL are used pretty interchangeably and, while there is a difference in them, don't stress out over whether it's truly a SLDL or a RDL.

 

[MrKleen73]

Don't major in the minors. SLDL and RDL are used pretty interchangeably and, while there is a difference in them, don't stress out over whether it's truly a SLDL or a RDL.

Yep, RDL bars travel path stays in tight and close to the body and is hip dominant.

SLDL straight legged, bar path a little further from body to focus a little more on the lower back and hamstrings due to leverage manipulation.

Most important thing to know, would be if your lower back is not in good condition RDL's are the safer option.

 

[Hyde]

Don't major in the minors. SLDL and RDL are used pretty interchangeably and, while there is a difference in them, don't stress out over whether it's truly a SLDL or a RDL.

I have to disagree. I feel they are very different. If my back is flared up I can't even say SLDL safely. And the leg bend isn't there on SLDL, and they don't hit things the same way.

 

[Rodja]

I have to disagree. I feel they are very different. If my back is flared up I can't even say SLDL safely. And the leg bend isn't there on SLDL, and they don't hit things the same way.

My point is to not stress out over minor things such as whether you're doing a SLDL or RDL, provided you're doing either one properly. It's like when people worry about what grip angle to use on a DB press. Just do it properly and whatever is most pain free.

 

[MrKleen73]

I have to disagree. I feel they are very different. If my back is flared up I can't even say SLDL safely. And the leg bend isn't there on SLDL, and they don't hit things the same way.

Yeah even though they do hit all of the same muscles the prime movers are taxed differently and the leverage point is different. I think Rodja's point was that they work the same muscle groups and no effort would be wasted by doing either of them if the goal is a better pull, or posterior chain recruitment.

I will say this. Unless working on ROM, I prefer the RDL, and I have never had any issue with getting my hamstrings sore from them either. So they get plenty for me and still hit my hips & back better.

 

[MrKleen73]

My point is to not stress out over minor things such as whether you're doing a SLDL or RDL, provided you're doing either one properly. It's like when people worry about what grip angle to use on a DB press. Just do it properly and whatever is most pain free.

Good to see I was on the right page as far as your thought process. You posted this while I was responding...Now when it becomes an issue is when you are a little more advanced and are looking to strengthen specific weaknesses. However as muscle or strength builders go they are both great exercises.

 

[Hyde]

I definitely agree with that. It's like figuring out what press or curl to use. Just find one you can perform effectively and progressively overload it.

 

[PaulBlack]

I want to be strong at breaking objects off of the floor from a dead strop more than anything else.

Not to thread hijack OP, but clk have you tried or do you do any deficit pulling. ie: 1"-2" might be all you need. I mainly do 2" deficits amd feel that my pull from the ground only got better. Also, pulling with the bar resting on the pins in the rack, takes a lot of the flex out of the bar too. They can kick you butt some and raise the level of you gas off the floor.

 

[clk]

I've done some deficit deads. Usually from 2-4" but it seems to put me in a totally different position and makes it like a whole new lift. I just get all effed up doing them so I don't do them much any more. Just do pauses instead. Maybe I'm just retarded since it works for everyone else.

 

[Hyde]

I've done some deficit deads. Usually from 2-4" but it seems to put me in a totally different position and makes it like a whole new lift. I just get all effed up doing them so I don't do them much any more. Just do pauses instead. Maybe I'm just retarded since it works for everyone else.

Just stand on a 45 plate or 1-2 stall mats. 3/4-1" makes a noticeable difference without changing your position. THAT is what gives good carryover to your comp pull. Anything more becomes a different lift.

If you ever do all your warmups standing on a 45 and then pull it out for your work sets it makes you feel like you're cheating it's so good!

 

[PaulBlack]

Just stand on a 45 plate or 1-2 stall mats. 3/4-1" makes a noticeable difference without changing your position. THAT is what gives good carryover to your comp pull. Anything more becomes a different lift.

Exactly. You do not make it so different that it changes leverages or your regular pulling mechanics. Just subtle changes and as little as 1" can make a big dif. Making things too extreme, don't work as well as small changes over time and your adaptation to them.
4" is a bit too much, for me anyway. I almost never use anything over 2" and I have long arms.
Also 1"-2" def from off the pins sounds like nothing, but believe me it is a tough pull as the full weight (no bar flex) is right there at the start.

 

[clk]

I'll give it a shot. I do a lot of rack pulls. We see them in comp pretty often. Could be why I can lock out into the 700 range but can't even get close to that from the floor. Ugh. Deadlifts, I hate you and love you at the same time.

 

[PaulBlack]

I'll give it a shot. I do a lot of rack pulls. We see them in comp pretty often. Could be why I can lock out into the 700 range but can't even get close to that from the floor.

Well, pretty much anybody can lock out a good bit more than they can full pull. It is leverages and ROM etc. I don't think I am alone and I don't find many DL'ers who espouse rack pulls much above the knees for any help or translation to their full pull or work off the floor.
A guy told me once, if they helped my full pull, then lockouts would be all I would have to do.
I use rack pulls a good bit from varying heights in varying W/O's ie: specifically 11"-13"-15". (drop a bit of weight, then do floor or deficit work in that W/O) I think Dan Green and Matt Dimmel were ones who used these a good bit as well. As far as pulling from above the knee, not so much. I can get a great deal off the pins above the knees, but that does not carryover to the floor for me at all.

 

[clk]

Well, pretty much anybody can lock out a good bit more than they can full pull. It is leverages and ROM etc. I don't think I am alone and I don't find many DL'ers who espouse rack pulls much above the knees for any help or translation to their full pull or work off the floor.
A guy told me once, if they helped my full pull, then lockouts would be all I would have to do.
I use rack pulls a good bit from varying heights in varying W/O's ie: specifically 11"-13"-15". (drop a bit of weight, then do floor or deficit work in that W/O) I think Dan Green and Matt Dimmel were ones who used these a good bit as well. As far as pulling from above the knee, not so much. I can get a great deal off the pins above the knees, but that does not carryover to the floor for me at all.

I don't do it to help with my dl off the floor. I so it simply bc I see it in comps a lot. That's all.