My goal is to get strong and big advice please

[norm dobson]

So my routine is 3 days on all strength training ppl then I do 3 days of hypotrophy training ppl then I rest on Sunday... I eat a lot of chicken ground beef brown rice oatmeal and sweet potatoes and then sometimes cottage cheese before bed I also have a shake in the morning and post workout...

My question is how can I burst through my plateau I want to put on a lot of mass and strength my goal is to one day compete in a bodybuilding competition and also a power lifting competition my diet is really good but I can't seem to get the results I want

I'm 19 years old 5,11 and I weight 163-168 really depends on the day
I trained my ass off to get to where I am I was on adhd medication all of highschool and I never ate I was all skin and bones

I want advice on what I can change or do to make my results come about faster I'm serious about my goals and will do anything to reach them I'm contemplating taking that step that all lifters take when they are stuck but idk if it's worth it and I just want as much advice as I can get PLEASE GIVE ME AS MUCH ADVICE AS YOU CAN! And also maybe tell me about the risks and benefits of what would happen if I started taking THAT....

 

[Permabulk95]

Eat, man, just eat, eat and eat some more and push hard on those weights, go heavy all of the time.

 

[norm dobson]

I do I eat so much and I train hard I love doing both but I'm lagging and it's frustrating me

 

[Permabulk95]

What are you lagging with?

 

[norm dobson]

Size and strength

 

[Permabulk95]

I think you just need to eat more, that's the only way to break thru, the only way to grow is to eat more, and the strength will come along too. Maybe try drinking at least half a gallon of whole milk a day on top of everything else you eat, you should get bigger and stronger if you train correctly. Just stuff your face more if you really want those gains. And I also think that you need to wait a little bit before experimenting with anabolics, grow through plateus and develop strength and size before you think about experimenting with anabolics

 

[Permabulk95]

Also you say you weigh around 160 at 5'11,. That is quite light, so I think you do In Fact need to eat more , good luck buddy

 

[norm dobson]

I'm more interested in gh tbh but I had to stop drinking milk lets just say it didn't agree with me I really do eat a lot tho this was my supper and it was my 4th meal of the day not including snacks and protein shakes

 

[norm dobson]

I weighted 175 but I went on a ketogenic diet for 3 weeks

 

[scherbs]

I weighted 175 but I went on a ketogenic diet for 3 weeks

So you want to get "big and strong" and yet you go keto and lose weight?
Pick a goal and stick to it

 

[Permabulk95]

I'm more interested in gh tbh but I had to stop drinking milk lets just say it didn't agree with me I really do eat a lot tho this was my supper and it was my 4th meal of the day not including snacks and protein shakes

Oh ok, just up your calories even more and you'll pack on muscle if you lift hard

 

[jaylongjohn]

One thing I would say is squat HEAVY. Yes I understand you don't want to just build mass in the leg department but squating heavy helps release hormones system wide. Also helps with mind and muscle connection you can use for chest and back exercises. Get a little closer grip when you are squating to keep the back tighter and and keep your abs engaged and make sure you always brake parallel. Doesn't matter if your doing low reps or high reps honestly I've done both and they both have helped me with overall mass and strength. This is the best thing you can do honestly

 

[jaylongjohn]

And when I say "brake" parallel I don't mean stop at parallel I mean go past it. Not saying you're squating right or anything. Just dropping my .02 cents

 

[norm dobson]

I was Doing reps of 10 all the way down while pushing my core throughout the movement

 

[jaylongjohn]

Trying putting on the max weight you can squat for 10 reps. Make sure you have a spotter and squat it for 20 reps. That means you'll be gasping for air and have to pause in between reps longer as needed to complete the task. it'll hurt like hell but it'll build a whole new foundation for strength. I remember reading an article somewhere, maybe on here. Anyways they recommended that.

 

[Vector300]

For diet I would always recommend that you're getting at least 1 gram of protein per body pound. However for increasing size and to some degree strength I would bump that up to 2 grams of protein per body pound. So you may not be getting enough protein in. Increase your protein shakes if you need to. As far as fats and carbs go just backfill your diet with what you need. I prefer fats over carbs especially since cholesterol is THE ingredient in the creation testosterone and because there's 9 calories for every gram of fat compared to only 4 calories for protein/carbs. Adding heavy cream into your shakes and/or taking shots of olive oil throughout the day are easy quick fix solutions for that.

As far as training - light or heavy doesn't really matter it's all the same for muscle growth AND strength. There's a couple meta-analysis's out there, though I think Greg Nuckols has the best one, that show no real difference in muscle growth training in lower rep ranges (1-5) compared to higher rep ranges (8-12). In fact the only real difference is whatever rep range you train in seems to make you more proficient at that range. So if you're a powerlifters then you may wanna focus on some big lifts in the that sub 5 rep range. Anyway the reason I bring this up is because I would train in whatever manner would let you hit da gym more often. I love training heavy but I can only go really ****ing heavy about 2-3 days in a two before I need a lighter day or some active rest. It burns out my CNS and can get a little rough in my joints some days. As such maybe training in a slightly lighter range like the 6-10 range would be ideal so you can more train often and still go fairly heavy with at least 5-6 days a week doing something. In fact I would argue that it's not the reps that's important but rather the overall frequency AND volume. To maximize both size and strength I would be hitting every muscle group or plane of motion at least 2x a week. I would also not waste my time with what I call "fluff work". That is - what do you think is going to build more muscle for the medial delts:

1) DB/Cable Lat Raises
or
2) BB Standing Behind the Neck Press

Both moves will hit shoulders and both will focus, though not isolate, the medial head but one will build more appreciable mass and strength. So focus on the moves that give you the biggest bang for you buck. With that I would up the volume. At least 4 sets but preferably 5 sets plus. Modifying a program template like PHAT or PHUL (which is what I'm experimenting with right now and willing to share if you're interested) may be worth looking into. If you have any questions let me know.

 

[HIT4ME]

5x5 Stronglifts.

 

[jerm129]

5x5 Stronglifts.

I second this too. It is a good scheme to develop strength for sure. Couple that with some big eating and you will hit your goals.

 

[B5150]

Three days strength, three days hypertrophy, one day off? You're training too much. I don't care how much you eat. Growth takes place in your bed.

 

[norm dobson]

Last week I did 5 days instead

 

[B5150]

“If you always do what you’ve always done, you’ll always get what you’ve always got.”

"If nothing changes nothing changes"

 

[norm dobson]

I mix my routine up every day I workout I go higher I use more volume I switch it up constantly I pyramid I drop set I super set I do everything in my power to make each workout different then the last

 

[B5150]

Right.

You are young and have the rest of your life ahead of you. Obsessiveness does not accelerate results. Your discipline and dedication is not in question. It's not going to happen over night, this year or the next. You're young and thin for your height and have a lot of room to grow. Less is more. Consider getting more rest.

Good luck.

 

[HIT4ME]

Right.

You are young and have the rest of your life ahead of you. Obsessiveness does not accelerate results. Your discipline and dedication is not in question. It's not going to happen over night, this year or the next. You're young and thin for your height and have a lot of room to grow. Less is more. Consider getting more rest.

Good luck.

Here! Here!

We all have this trait - we confuse killing ourself with being dedicated. Discipline sometimes means holding back and realizing the goal is to train to be better, not to kill yourself in one workout. It isn't about what you do this workout. It's about what you did the last workout and what you're going to do the next workout.

I recommended 5X5 stronglifts because:

1. It eliminates a bunch of unnecessary movements and lets you focus on getting better at a few exercises that build size and strength.
2. It teaches you not to kill yourself every time - and focuses you on training instead of annihilating.
3. It teaches linear progression (similar to 2)
4. It will show you how little you need to do if you are going to train moderately often (the same muscles 3X every 2 weeks)

It's a good setup, and you will learn a bunch from it, and see good progress.

 

[JohnWill]

Trying putting on the max weight you can squat for 10 reps. Make sure you have a spotter and squat it for 20 reps. That means you'll be gasping for air and have to pause in between reps longer as needed to complete the task. it'll hurt like hell but it'll build a whole new foundation for strength. I remember reading an article somewhere, maybe on here. Anyways they recommended that.

This is great advice. It is Super Squat program and will bust your ass but will get you past any plateaus. I use it often but a bit different than it suggest.

 

[JohnWill]

Also. What most people are saying is 100% on point. EAT MORE. You say you can't eat anymore then drink more milk and deal with the gas. If you really are eating as much as you possibly can than its your training. Lift hard and heavy on all the big lifts. Anything compound and you will build. Doing cable flys every Monday won't put lbs of muscle on your chest

 

[Joe12]

I put on 10 clean lbs in a month and have a FAST metabolism, I did it by training and eating A LOT, like 6+ meals a day. Also, I drink two homemade shakes per day, each are around 700 calories. Add the shakes to your diet, you will see your weight go up.

 

[Vector300]

Just to play devils advocate (because someone has too, haha) - there was an old article by Alwyn Cosgrove on I think T-Nation (yeah I know not always the most reputable source but he knows his ****). Anyway the interviewer asked him if there was anything "new" he learned and his response was the whole calories in/calories out argument is bull. There's a couple example but he used himself. As a former MMA fighter then a personal trainer he was hit with cancer twice! Stopped training, no appetite, chemotherapy, the works. He lost muscle and size and still managed to somehow gain 20lbs! As in an extra 20lbs heavier after being sick than before. What he pointed out was cortisol is a huge factor that ppl forget about. Your training/diet can be on point but hormonally if you're out of sync than its not going to make a damn difference. If OP is being up front and doing "xyz" and that's still not working then that may be something else to look into.

A lot of good suggestion and I'm all for eating MORE! And training HEAVY! But it may not be a black and white situation. As for training - any rep range, from singles up to the 12-15 range will build muscle mass almost equally. Multiple studies have shown there to be no real difference in whatever rep range you choose and you will build appreciable strength in whatever range you favor most. Volume dictates strength/muscle growth more than reps.

 

[B5150]

I still say he needs more rest! But your cortisol point is relative.

The IGF-1/cortisol ratio as a useful marker for monitoring training in young boxers.
Nassib S1, Moalla W2, Hammoudi-Nassib S1, Chtara M1, Hachana Y3, Tabka Z4, Chamari K5, Elloumi M6.
Author information
Abstract

Training effects on plasma insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1)/cortisol ratio were investigated in boxers. Thirty subjects were assigned to either the training or the control group (n = 15 in both). They were tested before the beginning of training (T0), after 5 weeks of intensive training (T1), and after 1 week of tapering (T2). Physical performances (Yo-Yo intermittent recovery test level-1), training loads, and blood sampling were obtained at T0, T1, and T2. Controls were only tested for biochemical and anthropometric parameters at T0 and T2. A significantly higher physical performance was observed at T2 compared to T1. At T1, cortisol levels were significantly increased whereas IGF-1 and insulin-like growth factor binding protein-3 (IGFBP-3) levels remained unchanged compared to baseline. At T2, cortisol levels decreased while IGF-1 and IGFBP-3 levels increased. The IGF-1/cortisol ratio decreased significantly at T1 and increased at T2, and its variations were significantly correlated with changes in training loads and Yo-Yo intermittent recovery test level 1 (IRT1) performance over the training period. Cortisol variations correlated with changes in training load (r = 0.64; p < 0.01) and Yo-Yo IRT1 performance (r = 0.78; p < 0.001) at T1 whereas IGF-1 variations correlated only with changes in Yo-Yo IRT1 performance at T2 (r = 0.71; p < 0.001). It is concluded that IGF-1/cortisol ratio could be a useful tool for monitoring training loads in young trained boxers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26985129

 

[B5150]

If recovery is a factor to growth then more isn't always better.

Acute and delayed response to resistance exercise leading or not leading to muscle failure.
Pareja-Blanco F1, Rodríguez-Rosell D1, Sánchez-Medina L2, Ribas-Serna J3, López-López C4, Mora-Custodio R1, Yáñez-García JM1, González-Badillo JJ1.
Author information
Abstract

This study compared the time course of recovery following two resistance exercise protocols differing in the number of repetitions per set with regard to the maximum possible (to failure) number. Ten men performed three sets of 6 versus 12 repetitions with their 70% 1RM (3 × 6 [12] versus 3 × 12 [12]) in the bench press (BP) and squat (SQ) exercises. Mechanical [CMJ height, velocity against the 1 m s-1 load (V1 -load)], biochemical [testosterone, cortisol, growth hormone, prolactin, insulin-like growth factor-1, creatine kinase (CK)] and heart rate variability (HRV) and complexity (HRC) were assessed pre-, postexercise (Post) and at 6, 24 and 48 h-Post. Compared with 3 × 6 [12], the 3 × 12 [12] protocol resulted in significantly: higher repetition velocity loss within each set (BP: 65% versus 26%; SQ: 44% versus 20%); reduced V1 -load until 24 h-Post (BP) and 6 h-Post (SQ); decreased CMJ height up to 48 h-Post; greater increases in cortisol (Post), prolactin (Post, 48 h-Post) and CK (48 h-Post); and reductions in HRV and HRC at Post. This study shows that the mechanical, neuroendocrine and autonomic cardiovascular response is markedly different when manipulating the number of repetitions per set. Halving the number of repetitions in relation to the maximum number that can be completed serves to minimize fatigue and speed up recovery following resistance training.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26970332

 

[Vector300]

^ I followed the link but I may have missed it. Were the subjects "trained" individuals like the first study with the boxers?

 

[B5150]

^ I followed the link but I may have missed it. Were the subjects "trained" individuals like the first study with the boxers?

Yes. It's stated in my post and in the link...

The IGF-1/cortisol ratio as a useful marker for monitoring training in young boxers.

Training effects on plasma insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1)/cortisol ratio were investigated in boxers. It is concluded that IGF-1/cortisol ratio could be a useful tool for monitoring training loads in young trained boxers.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26985129

It's safe to assume these subjects were boxers, training, trained...

 

[Vector300]

The second study simple states "ten men" and nothing about it they are trained or not.

The reason I bring this up is because with the study on cortisol and the trained boxers it's safe to assume that they're putting out a greater amount of intensity in each session than a complete novice in the sport. As such I can understand why they would require a "deload/tapering" week since their work output it probably at a higher relative intensity. Compared to that of an untrained individual who may not need as frequent of a tapering.

If we are assuming that the second group is also "trained" than what I'm seeing is a study basically saying: working closer to your rep max is more taxing on your system. The intensity is the same for both the 3x6 and the 3x12 groups but the twelve rep subjects are leaving very little left in the tank. That would be like me training at 95% of my 1RM for 3x1 and 3x5. I can guarantee that trying to squeeze out 5 reps at a percentage that I would have a hard time hitting triples with would be much more strenuous. Increasing the sets would be away around this. For example training at that same 70% but performing perhaps 6x6 instead of 3x6? The workload is the same as the 3x12 group but without it hard on you performance and recovery. Similar to Waterbury's famous 10x3 inversion. I'll post a study I came across that did something similar...

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/m/pubmed/22158142/

Using trained individuals they basically concluded that 4 sets were better than 1 and that 8 sets were better than 4 while using the same intensity (80%).

 

[Vector300]

Found a link to Greg Nuckols who did a write up on this very study! He does a much better job giving background on this than I am...

https://strengtheory.com/more-is-more/

 

[EMPIREMIND]

All the training programs in the world cant build a proper foundation without the raw materials needed. EAT MORE! end of story. If you already eat alot but still arent gaining, its not enough. Period. Some people are blessed and pack on good weight no problem, others have to force feed to break through. It all depends on your genetics. But most hardgainers think they eat more than they do. When i was bulking and couldnt eat any more volume of food my coach made me drink a tablespoon of olive oil with every meal for the calories.

Also as far as you doing keto it seems you wanna be lean and big, who doesnt. It takes ALOT of time and dedication. Years. Your too young for drugs bro, just eat more food. Food is the most powerful anabolic at a natural bodybuilders disposal.

 

[Joe12]

Norm,
Let me give you something tangible, here is an easy, cheap, homemade shake to put on the lbs.
• 1-2 cups of low fat (lactose free in your case) milk - 200 calories
• 1-2 frozen banana - 200 calories
• 25-50 grams of protein powder – Calories depends on the brand
• 2 tbsp of natural peanut butter - 200 calories
• ½ cut of oats – 75 calories

BOOM, you just made a homemade, clean, bulking shake @ 575-900 calories - Drink 2 a day and you will add 1150-1800 calories.

 

[Gutterpump]

Three days strength, three days hypertrophy, one day off? You're training too much. I don't care how much you eat. Growth takes place in your bed.

Definitely too much for a beginner. It's how I train when enhanced, and sometimes it even feels like too much at times.

 

[dvw]

Lower your training frequency to every muscle trained 1 time a week.Chest, Back, bis/tris, legs, shoulders. If at all possible try to get 10 hours sleep every day. You grow when you sleep.

 

[KevinConn]

I mix my routine up every day I workout I go higher I use more volume I switch it up constantly I pyramid I drop set I super set I do everything in my power to make each workout different then the last

No one had anything to say about this yet? To me this is the biggest problem. You say you want to be big and strong but those two things come from adapting to a stimulus over time. Constantly changing the stimulus gets you no where. You need to find a program online built for size and strength - there are tons out there, the Stronglifts 5x5 that has been mentioned is great - and you need to stick with it for 8-12 weeks at least. Then move on to another STRUCTURED program for another 8-12 weeks. "Mixing it up" or "confusing the body" is actually a common rookie mistake - I did it for my first 2 years of lifting and got absolutely no where until I started Stronglifts 5x5 and bought a mass gainer and added a couple of PB&J's to my diet everyday.

 

[KevinConn]

Whoops, just realized this thread is a couple weeks old - may not be relevant.

 

[JohnWill]

No it is relevant. Even if it is old it is still good information that you just posted for somebody else in the same situation to come across. I agree with you 100% on that one. Good post

 

[Gutterpump]

Whoops, just realized this thread is a couple weeks old - may not be relevant.

Definitely relevant to anyone reading at anytime. Good post

 

[HIT4ME]

No one had anything to say about this yet? To me this is the biggest problem. You say you want to be big and strong but those two things come from adapting to a stimulus over time. Constantly changing the stimulus gets you no where. You need to find a program online built for size and strength - there are tons out there, the Stronglifts 5x5 that has been mentioned is great - and you need to stick with it for 8-12 weeks at least. Then move on to another STRUCTURED program for another 8-12 weeks. "Mixing it up" or "confusing the body" is actually a common rookie mistake - I did it for my first 2 years of lifting and got absolutely no where until I started Stronglifts 5x5 and bought a mass gainer and added a couple of PB&J's to my diet everyday.

Yeah - this is why I just said 5X5 - people don't stick with stuff long enough.