PLEASE HELP!

[LDubs]

Hello everyone,
I have been training for about 5 years now and feel like im making some big mistakes. I dont feel like I've made the progress I should have in this time frame. I think it might be my training program that needs reevaluation.

I am currently cutting. I am probably around 20% bf right now. So I have a ways to go. I am wanting to get down to 15%.

I have a history of back problems and have a bulge at l3-l4 and l4-s1. I also have degenerative disc disease. I have tried back squatting many times and it always seems to cause huge problems. Deadlift surprisingly doesn't seem to bother me though if I pull off of 3" blocks.

Please help recommend a routine that I will be able to make some decent progress on that doesn't rely on back squats.

Thank you and reps to anyone that is willing to help me!

 

[Driven2lift]

You should still be following a standard routine but replacing back squats with whatever movement you are capable of.

Front squats, hack squats, leg press?

Not ideal replacements, but throwing aside existing routines just because back squat is listed is not the way to go IMO

Edit a good program to fit.

What programs have you run?

 

[Driven2lift]

Also how is your diet looking, if cutting is being problematic.

Caloric intake?
Current rate of progress?

 

[LDubs]

You should still be following a standard routine but replacing back squats with whatever movement you are capable of.

Front squats, hack squats, leg press?

Not ideal replacements, but throwing aside existing routines just because back squat is listed is not the way to go IMO

Edit a good program to fit.

What programs have you run?

Thanks for your reply!

I started out on a body part split before learning that wasn't the best idea. I then began starting strength and ate way too much thinking that was going to get me the strength I wanted. After repeated injury (back) and numerous resets I moved on to GSLP. After about 6 months of that I started 5/3/1. My back problems continued and I quit 5/3/1 after only a couple months. I then went about 6 months where I wasn't really training other than the exercises my physical therapist had given me. I finally got back into the gym and began using P/P/L using front squats and band assisted pistols instead of back squats. That's basically what I've been doing for the last couple years. I just seem to constantly hit a wall with my progression of weight. This is at weights that I feel I should not be getting stuck at. I am 6'2" and weigh about 215. My sticking weights are as follows:
bench- 227.5lbs x 5
ohp- 127.5 x 5
deadlift - 275lbs x 5 (off 3" blocks)

I have been in a perpetual bulk most of this time thinking I needed to eat more to break the plateaus. By I can't seem to get past those numbers and I just keep getting fatter.

 

[LDubs]

I only began cutting about a month ago. I've lost about 5lbs. So, a pound a week.

Im using intermittent fasting and eating in a slight deficit.

The weight loss seems ok. Im just wanting to find a good way to train.

 

[Driven2lift]

Perfect you have already been doing a decent job of working with the injury good on you.


For the program, and possibly more input on lifting with that issue. I will grab extra pros here
Hyde Rodja tyga tyga bolt10

 

[LDubs]

I was doing some research into the training recommended with leangains and came across the following routine. Let me know what your thoughts are on it.

Everything is done using reverse pyramids. Warm up to top set then reduce weight by 10-15% for each subsequent set. Rest 2-3 min between sets. Use 6-8 week training blocks. First 2 weeks are submaximal. Week one is 80-85% of best weight/reps. Week two is 90-95% of best. The next 4-6 weeks are max effort. The training is as follows:

MON
Deadlift 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Weighted chin ups 6-8, 8-10, 10-12

WED
Bench 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Dips 6-8, 8-10, 10-12

FRI
Front squats (modified from back squats) 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Overhead Press 6-8, 8-10, 10-12



So, what do you think?

Is this a good routine to follow while I'm eating in a caloric deficit? Would this also work well once I start eating a caloric surplus or would more volume be recommended once calories are increased?

Thanks again for any guidance!

 

[LDubs]

Hyde Rodja tyga tyga bolt10 Can any of you help me get my training figured out?

 

[Khazima]

I like the simplicity of the split, but that's hardly any volume for once a week training, after 5 years you should use more back work and isolation work to be maximizing progress.

How long have you been on that split, are you making gains on that split?

I recommend most people try something like push/pull/legs or upper/lower 2x per week (even upper 3x lower 2x) if they're natural/training without drugs at the time. Where-as on drugs there's multiple factors making lower frequency higher volume more effective. Primarily prolonged muscle protein synthesis, where as without drugs it's better to stimulate it more often with less volume to allow for proper recovery and multiple adaptations per week.

Fat loss looks fine, 5lb in the first month is great and intermittent fasting is great if it fits your lifestyle. The determining factor in success of a weight loss diet is adherence, so whatever suits your lifestyle best and allows you to stick to a caloric deficit is going to be the best for that.

 

[LDubs]

I haven't used that program at all. It was one I found when looking for routines Martin Berkhan used with clients while utilizing Leangains intermittent fasting. I was just curious about people's thoughts on it.

Here was the other routine I was looking at:

It is done 3 days per week using an ABA, BAB schedule. First 2 movements are done using reverse pyramids. Warm up to top set then reduce weight by 10-15% for each subsequent set. Rest 2-3 min between sets. Use 6-8 week training blocks. First 2 weeks are submaximal. Week one is 80-85% of best weight/reps. Week two is 90-95% of best. The next 4-6 weeks are max effort. The training is as follows:

A day
Deadlift 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Weighted chin ups 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Rows 3x12
Rear dealt work 3x12

B day
Squat variation 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Overhead press 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Bench 3x 10-12
Dips 3x10-12

 

[Khazima]

Looks great, if you're dieting that should be plenty.

Just remember if you're looking at a program it's descriptive not prescriptive, change it to your individual needs and find what works well in it and what you enjoy the most.

 

[LDubs]

It is done 3 days per week using an ABA, BAB schedule. First 2 movements are done using reverse pyramids. Warm up to top set then reduce weight by 10-15% for each subsequent set. Rest 2-3 min between sets. Use 6-8 week training blocks. First 2 weeks are submaximal. Week one is 80-85% of best weight/reps. Week two is 90-95% of best. The next 4-6 weeks are max effort. The training is as follows:

A day
Deadlift 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Weighted chin ups 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Rows 3x12
Rear dealt work 3x12

B day
Squat variation 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Overhead press 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Bench 3x 10-12
Dips 3x10-12

Driven2lift what are your thoughts on that routine?

 

[Driven2lift]

I'm good with you giving this program a try.

Logging?

 

[Hyde]

Sorry for just now seeing this mention!

I worry that 4-6 weeks of ME work in a row is too much, especially since we have to be extra careful w/ your back. Also consider the Westside ME method relies on a rotation of several lifts specifically targeted to build a particular lifter's weaknesses. As you're not rotating lifts here deadlifting max singles 6 weeks in a row just seems foolish and pointless to me.

If you can front squat, do it. Between deep fronts and 3" block pulls you can build a strong body. I know many strongmen w good muscle and strength that do both yet rarely backsquat.

Push/pull/legs or 2-3 upper days/2 lower/wk are all awesome splits and most people do well on one of them at least. Depends if you wanna train 4, 5 or 6 days a wk on your diet. Understand training 6 days a week on a caloric restriction will likely NOT yield an increase in strength. Maintenance of strength should be your top priority while eating less than you need. If you PR, great, but don't hold your breath. People scratch their heads when they remove their caloric surplus AND get smaller and get weaker. I scratch my head as to why that surprises them. It should not, however, plummet.

If you're taking drugs, though, anything is possible.

Also consider that hacksquat and legpress are awesome massbuilders, but if strength is the priority stick w the frontsquat. Also remember that 5/3/1 can be applied to things like fronts, ohp, and your blockpulls. You know you need to do something different so a new intensity scheme like that might be just what the doc ordered. Or you could Cube your lifts. I'd do that over 6wks of ME work. 2 waves of volume, technique, then heavy would serve you better than flat out ME work w/ same lifts weekly. That's asking to get beat up w/ no progress.

 

[LDubs]

Sorry for just now seeing this mention!

I worry that 4-6 weeks of ME work in a row is too much, especially since we have to be extra careful w/ your back. Also consider the Westside ME method relies on a rotation of several lifts specifically targeted to build a particular lifter's weaknesses. As you're not rotating lifts here deadlifting max singles 6 weeks in a row just seems foolish and pointless to me.

If you can front squat, do it. Between deep fronts and 3" block pulls you can build a strong body. I know many strongmen w good muscle and strength that do both yet rarely backsquat.

Push/pull/legs or 2-3 upper days/2 lower/wk are all awesome splits and most people do well on one of them at least. Depends if you wanna train 4, 5 or 6 days a wk on your diet. Understand training 6 days a week on a caloric restriction will likely NOT yield an increase in strength. Maintenance of strength should be your top priority while eating less than you need. If you PR, great, but don't hold your breath. People scratch their heads when they remove their caloric surplus AND get smaller and get weaker. I scratch my head as to why that surprises them. It should not, however, plummet.

If you're taking drugs, though, anything is possible.

Also consider that hacksquat and legpress are awesome massbuilders, but if strength is the priority stick w the frontsquat. Also remember that 5/3/1 can be applied to things like fronts, ohp, and your blockpulls. You know you need to do something different so a new intensity scheme like that might be just what the doc ordered. Or you could Cube your lifts. I'd do that over 6wks of ME work. 2 waves of volume, technique, then heavy would serve you better than flat out ME work w/ same lifts weekly. That's asking to get beat up w/ no progress.

Thank you so much for your response! Just to be clear, the program doesn't have me working to max singles. The first set is done to near failure in the 4-6 rep range. Then the following sets are reduced by 10-15% and taken just short of failure.

Does that make a difference in what your suggesting? Or would you still recommend something different?

Here is the routine again:
It is done 3 days per week using an ABA, BAB schedule. First 2 movements are done using reverse pyramids. Warm up to top set then reduce weight by 10-15% for each subsequent set. Rest 2-3 min between sets. Use 6-8 week training blocks. First 2 weeks are submaximal. Week one is 80-85% of best weight/reps. Week two is 90-95% of best. The next 4-6 weeks are max effort. The training is as follows:

A day
Deadlift off 3" blocks 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Weighted chin ups 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Rows 3x12
Rear dealt work 3x12

B day
Front Squat 4-6, 6-8, 8-10
Overhead press 6-8, 8-10, 10-12
Bench 3x 10-12
Dips 3x10-12



Thanks again for all the help!

 

[Hyde]

That is totally different; sorry for misunderstanding! A 5-rep set with one left in the tank always (near failure you stated) is entirely easier on the body. Your volume w this approach is actually high on the main lifts assuming strength is the focus over hypertrophy. This will lend itself very well to retaining as much muscle as possible while dieting. You likely will get weaker, but this is alright considering as soon as you stop dieting most strength usually returns.

3 questions: are you only training 3 days a week? If so, you need to do full body every time. Always a lower move, a push, a pull.

Will you be using anabolics? If so discard my previous full body statement.

And am I right to assume then that for 4-6 weeks the routines will basically look the same with you trying to add a rep here or there to the same weights in a linear fashion? Most people that aren't beginners can't deadlift, say, 315 for 4, then next week 5, then 6 the following, and keep going for 6 wks. And that's on a mild surplus even. It just doesn't move that linear typically. That's where a scheme like 5/3/1 can be quite useful.

 

[LDubs]

3 questions: are you only training 3 days a week? If so, you need to do full body every time. Always a lower move, a push, a pull

Will you be using anabolics? If so discard my previous full body statement.

And am I right to assume then that for 4-6 weeks the routines will basically look the same with you trying to add a rep here or there to the same weights in a linear fashion? Most people that aren't beginners can't deadlift, say, 315 for 4, then next week 5, then 6 the following, and keep going for 6 wks. And that's on a mild surplus even. It just doesn't move that linear typically. That's where a scheme like 5/3/1 can be quite useful.

I was planning on training 3 days per week. If I trained every other day, could I keep things push/pull?

No anabolics.

Yes. I would be trying to add weight or reps each workout during the 4-6 week block. I have been training for a number of years, but my strength is low for my weight. My best lifts are:

bench- 227.5lbs x 5
ohp- 127.5 x 5
deadlift - 275lbs x 5 (off 3" blocks)

(Done at around 215lbs)

Would using something linear be OK for me? Or would I benefit from some other programing?

Thanks!

 

[Hyde]

If 3 days a week no drugs go full body each session. If every other day you could do upper/lower fine. And if you wanna try linear for a spell and see how far you get nothing wrong w that! But when you can't progress for 2-3 wks in a row, time to modify the programming. I always suggest 5/3/1 as a base cuz it works for so many and is simple, but there are tons of programs/schemes to employ to suit your needs and tastes. It's a journey.