Topic of the week: Is Overtraining BS?

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    Topic of the week: Is Overtraining BS?


    You think its real or something that can fixed simply by calories?



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  2. IMO, I believe it's real. One can and does suffer injuries both small and large as a result of over training.

    I've had bouts of over training where I would train 5-6 days a week because I was so pumped up, but ended up injuring my shoulder.
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  3. It's real but think people use overtraining as an excuse and do not fully understand what overtraining is.
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    I think there is a point where you can destroy muscle faster than your body rebuilds it,

    There were times between 12 hour shifts and workouts daily that i was genuinely in pain at work doing my job.

    I honestly dont think I lost muscle though, I kept building it. I think you can eat enough for your body to take care of you.

    But there are a lot more factors than that.

    Train to much you may be in pain, may have no energy, may be stressed.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    It's real but think people use overtraining as an excuse and do not fully understand what overtraining is.
    ^^^ this.
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  6. Everyones threshold is different, as long as you can recover properly youll never overtrain.


    I dont remember who said it, it was something along the lines of: " theres no such thing as overtraining, only under recovering and under eating"

  7. Overtraining is certainly a real phenomenon. But, I do think there is a tendency for many people to conflate "overtraining" and "overreaching".

  8. If it exists I have yet to bare its wrath
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  9. In my opinion the cns will become overtrained before the body, if enough rest and nutrient intake is present i don't feel the body would become overtrained but so many variables have to be taken into consideration so its possible.
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  10. Quote Originally Posted by kbayne View Post
    It's real but think people use overtraining as an excuse and do not fully understand what overtraining is.
    this. you can over reach, but you would need to do some really crazy insane stuff and be under eating big time to actually overtrain

  11. Quote Originally Posted by Auslifter View Post
    this. you can over reach, but you would need to do some really crazy insane stuff and be under eating big time to actually overtrain
    Think it is more a relative thing per person. For instance a newish lifter will probably have a much smaller capacity to recover in fixed period because they are "less efficient" as compared to a veteran lifter whos body has unregulated many relevant systems to become more efficient.
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  12. Overtraining is a CNS condition, not a muscular one. So simply "being sore" or "having more injuries" is not indicative of overtraining, just under recovery from a muscular standpoint. An important feature is that training intensity must be continuously increased (or remain elevated) without adequate recovery. Intensity is not the relative term we often apply it to, for example: "I trained hard today and hard little rest; my workout was so intense!", but the actual training definition which is % of your 1RM. So a PLer training at 95% 1RM trains more intensely than someone pumping reps at 80% 1RM.

    Most people also auto regulate before overtraining so they tend to "drop off" training intensity or frequency when feeling lethargic whereas an athlete will often push past the mental boundaries that serve as warnings of a potential overtraining state.

    So true overtraining IMO does exist, but I highly doubt many people here have ever experienced it. Once overtrained, recovery can take months, if at all, to come back form.

    When talking to coaches, it appears easier to frame the current topic as underrecovery rather than overtraining
    When intensity and volume are increased during training, the subjective assessment of athletes becomes very important, because a long-term imbalance of stress (including training, competition and non-training stress factors) and recovery can lead to a state of overtraining
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  13. Well said Jiigzz!

  14. Fixed with only more calories? No. Maybe with tons of steroids, drugs, and food.

    Who knows maybe they will make a break through in science that allows us to bypass CNS or make it recover in shorts period of times like a few minutes. Instantly heal wounds as well?

  15. I've only done this once training for a competition and it is a very real thing. Like Jiiggz said, it can take a long time to recover and actually feel energy and motivation again. It can almost feel like a depressed state and much more than just physical soreness or weakness. I'd say 9 out of 10 times anyone uses this term, they aren't really talking about over training but rather over reaching or simply confusing bad soreness with it.

  16. Too much too soon, or changes too sudden. like going from 3 days/week to 6 days/week program without working up to it.

    Trying to fit too much per session.

    But for the rest of the people at the gym that I can see, its not over training so much. But its not enough attention paid to recovery.
    "If you want to be happy, be." - Leo Tolstoy

  17. Nope only under resting and under eating. Rich Piana said that. I think some people's bodies can't handle consistent hard training but the human body is a powerful machine and can withstand a serious beating. The mind always quits first. I personally have done 2 a days 7 days a week for weeks on end and been fine.

    I have a military background as a Marine. Look at how we train. Weeks on end every day, we eat a lot and sleep. Performance gets better once you break that mental barrier of wanting to quit once it hurts or gets hard.

    So in my reality overtraining doesn't exist if you rest and eat properly.
    The advice I give is just that... Advice, purely my opinion. Not medical advice

  18. To echo what @Jiigzz and @IFN15 said, overtraining is a CNS phenomenon

  19. Interesting that people are characterising overtraining (OT) in terms of the CNS.

    I think OT and overreaching (OR) can be confused because they can both be characterised as "a condition brought about where training volume/frequency exceeds the bodies capacity to recover from".

    However, where OT symptoms tend to be systematic and 'global', OR symptoms tend to be localised (to a specific bodypart, or muscle, etc). With OT, ones general training capacity is compromised; with OR, only the targeted muscle(group) is affected.

    To give an example, if someone were to run a sucessful OR on, say, their chest, their capacity to perform specific chest movements would be compromised but their capacity to squat would remain relatively unaffected. With OT, every exercise is negatively affected.

    I dont profess to understand all the physiological intracacies involved with either condition but, it would seem that where OT is systematic and CNS in nature, OR is more about hyper-glycogen depletion.

  20. Quote Originally Posted by NewAgeMayan View Post
    Interesting that people are characterising overtraining (OT) in terms of the CNS.

    I think OT and overreaching (OR) can be confused because they can both be characterised as "a condition brought about where training volume/frequency exceeds the bodies capacity to recover from".

    However, where OT symptoms tend to be systematic and 'global', OR symptoms tend to be localised (to a specific bodypart, or muscle, etc). With OT, ones general training capacity is compromised; with OR, only the targeted muscle(group) is affected.

    To give an example, if someone were to run a sucessful OR on, say, their chest, their capacity to perform specific chest movements would be compromised but their capacity to squat would remain relatively unaffected. With OT, every exercise is negatively affected.

    I dont profess to understand all the physiological intracacies involved with either condition but, it would seem that where OT is systematic and CNS in nature, OR is more about hyper-glycogen depletion.
    I always interpreted Overreaching as a defined period of going beyond your normal protocol in Volume, Intensity or frequency. Kind of like a structured refeed. I think overreaching is mutally exclusivie to what overtraining's definition is. Whether either/or are a result of CNS burnout, localised or systemic under recovery is probably likely to differ from person to person as to why they have burned out, not soley cause of CNS.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by NoAddedHmones View Post
    I always interpreted Overreaching as a defined period of going beyond your normal protocol in Volume, Intensity or frequency. Kind of like a structured refeed. I think overreaching is mutally exclusivie to what overtraining's definition is. Whether either/or are a result of CNS burnout, localised or systemic under recovery is probably likely to differ from person to person as to why they have burned out, not soley cause of CNS.
    As far as I understand OR and experience it, I wouldnt characterise it as 'burnout'. If I were to characterise it symptomatically it would be where I get weaker at specifically targeted lifts, there is a strength drop-off. This is due to purposefully training at an 'excessive' weekly volume/freq for that particular lift. My sleep is unaffected, as are my other lifts.

    I think there is a grey area with these conditions, because a whole body overreach could, with a bit of extra effort/time and no deload, become overtraining.

  22. I think that overtraining is a myth. Maybe started by people who didn't eat a pre-workout meal or forgot to stay hydrated and became dehydrated from sweating during their workout, feeling like ish and saying they overtrained... In my opinion if pre-workout nutrition is on point and intra-workout hydration is on point, overtraining is highly unlikely. Some will disagree but that's just my .02.
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  23. Quote Originally Posted by plifter42 View Post
    I think that overtraining is a myth. Maybe started by people who didn't eat a pre-workout meal or forgot to stay hydrated and became dehydrated from sweating during their workout, feeling like ish and saying they overtrained... In my opinion if pre-workout nutrition is on point and intra-workout hydration is on point, overtraining is highly unlikely. Some will disagree but that's just my .02.
    I can write you a program tailored to overtraining if you like? Remember, your style of training will likely not put you to that threshold, but if I got you doing something that did, your tune might change somewhat

    No amount of nutrition could prevent it
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  24. Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    I can write you a program tailored to overtraining if you like? Remember, your style of training will likely not put you to that threshold, but if I got you doing something that did, your tune might change somewhat

    No amount of nutrition could prevent it
    Haha, this is true. But after years of training I know what works for me and I have my training dialed in to a point where I've been making steady gains every year.

    I might have experienced "overtraining" before... Squatting 225 raw, ass to grass for 22 reps and puking all over the squat rack on the last set... Varsity wrestling practice until sundown in a small room with the goal of dehydrating ourselves... Two-a-days during football going through practices with multiple concussions...

    I've experimented with overtraining... Wasn't for me.
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  25. Quote Originally Posted by plifter42 View Post
    Haha, this is true. But after years of training I know what works for me and I have my training dialed in to a point where I've been making steady gains every year.

    I might have experienced "overtraining" before... Squatting 225 raw, ass to grass for 22 reps and puking all over the squat rack on the last set... Varsity wrestling practice until sundown in a small room with the goal of dehydrating ourselves... Two-a-days during football going through practices with multiple concussions...

    I've experimented with overtraining... Wasn't for me.
    Wrestling gives you balls, man. I'd take a wrestler over any other athlete when it comes to work ethic and not quitting. When I used to train, wrestlers were my favorite, no bull **** complaining that even an NFL athlete or two would throw at me.

    As far as the post goes. Yes, overtraining is very real. Most people think it doesn't exist simply because they're not tracking each and every session and the subsequent stress that continuous progression puts on the body.
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