Topic of the week: Is Overtraining BS?

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  1. I think it exists, but it's not the same as being sore or getting injured. In most 'overtraining" cases, I'd blame the implementation of training (form, etc.) and recovery (12 hour shifts at work, inadequate nutrition, drinking, etc.).

    If EVERYTHING else is in check, and you've been overreaching for a while, you could end up overtraining, but you wouldn't be just sore, it's a lot more intense and is more like depression or being sick, lack of will to get out of bed, etc.
    Antaeus Labs Rep


  2. If you are on steroids you have no right to be chatting about over training. Over training is beyond real and I've done it. Not fun. That's what I get for following bodybuilding magazine programs when I first started as a natural. Worst feeling in the world
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  3. I believe i experimented overtraining once in my life, and all i can say is overtraining is no joke. I was in a cutting with extreme caloric deficit, lifting every day, doing HIIT sprints 3 times a week, but the causes were beyond only traning: i was wrighting my PhD thesis, sleeping few hours and studying too much, and at same time my grandmother passed.

    So, in this very hard context, i start to experiment very high blood pressure, insomnia, depression, extreme lethargy, and some ocasional injuries, and stayed cutting; in a night i went to hospital, i was having bizarre heartbeats, bizarre dizziness. My clinical exams were normal, enzymes normal, only a bit low testosterone, but very high cortisol. I went to a cadiologist that recommended me to stop everything, stop workouts, stop my thesis and give myself a total vacation. I did it, and after 1 month i restarted lifting, and after 2 months restarted my wrighting routine, but i definitively slowed down.

    So, i believe overtraining exists, its really hard, but its not only related to overtrain, but to undersleep, undereat and overwork too - in other words: is the conjuction of factors from your overall routine that will lead you to an overtraining state.
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by JeremyNG25 View Post
    If you are on steroids you have no right to be chatting about over training. Over training is beyond real and I've done it. Not fun. That's what I get for following bodybuilding magazine programs when I first started as a natural. Worst feeling in the world
    I 100% disagree with this. Steroids have absolutely nothing to do with CNS. Can you push more weight for more reps while on as well as partition nutrients better? Absolutely.

    But the one thing that steroids CANNOT fix is true CNS failure. You can take as many compounds as you want but at some point all that weight and strain on your mental capacity can absolutely overburden what is physically possible.

    Overtraining can be done by anyone, and I would venture to guess that many people on steroids actually have a BETTER chance of experiencing it since they are far more willing to go to extremes (diet, training, intensity, etc) than someone who is not.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - [email protected] .com

  6. Quote Originally Posted by a.mocellim View Post
    I believe i experimented overtraining once in my life, and all i can say is overtraining is no joke. I was in a cutting with extreme caloric deficit, lifting every day, doing HIIT sprints 3 times a week, but the causes were beyond only traning: i was wrighting my PhD thesis, sleeping few hours and studying too much, and at same time my grandmother passed.

    So, in this very hard context, i start to experiment very high blood pressure, insomnia, depression, extreme lethargy, and some ocasional injuries, and stayed cutting; in a night i went to hospital, i was having bizarre heartbeats, bizarre dizziness. My clinical exams were normal, enzymes normal, only a bit low testosterone, but very high cortisol. I went to a cadiologist that recommended me to stop everything, stop workouts, stop my thesis and give myself a total vacation. I did it, and after 1 month i restarted lifting, and after 2 months restarted my wrighting routine, but i definitively slowed down.

    So, i believe overtraining exists, its really hard, but its not only related to overtrain, but to undersleep, undereat and overwork too - in other words: is the conjuction of factors from your overall routine that will lead you to an overtraining state.
    Yup 100% agreed. Getting there by failing to recover is EASY. Getting there by actually training too much/hard? Doubt many bodybuilders are at risk for it.
    Antaeus Labs Rep

  7. Overtraining my arms made them blow up on me

  8. I believe its real. As far as strength training goes, when i train in the 1-5 rep range pushing myself too the max every workout, i'll eventually get too a point where i'll step under the bar (keep in mind i've been bulking for as long as i can remember) and the weight will just be too much. I'll go down and wont be able too lift once what i just lifed 5x5 the week before, its not "pushing myself" its just that im physically and mentally burntout. Nothing gets me back going but some nice rest.

  9. no such thing

    only thing would be CNS fatigue from doing heavy singles or 3s of squats and deads

  10. under training and under eating , the struggle is real

  11. I think using the term overtraining overcomplictaes the matter. A better question may be am I doing too much work based on my diet, rest and outside stress factors. The saying "overtraining does not exist only under eating....... blah blah" may be true but in real life we all have constraints on how much food we can ingest, how much sleep we can get and how our personal lives are going. Therefore I believe too much CAN be done in the gym based ones other commitments. I myself have felt the lethargy, weakness and flu like feelings that come with over reaching. I will not argue more sleep and more food would help but I was eating over 3500 of fairly clean food and too busy to sleep more. At that point I could only back of my training or modify intensity to prevent this feeling of lethargy.

    Also in my early years of training I do not rememeber ever encountering this despite often training seven days a week. But now I find if I am very motivated and putting a lot in I must listen to my body and know when to back off a bit. Something that was forgein to me as a novice lifter. I suspect this occurs because I now am able to grind out more reps and dig deeper which I suspect is adding to my need for my cns to recover far more than when I was less experienced. This may also have to do with my reps being far more deliberate than when I started training. I now am usually training more muscle than movement and holding contractions to a greater degree.

  12. Quote Originally Posted by Tufts604 View Post
    I think using the term overtraining overcomplictaes the matter. A better question may be am I doing too much work based on my diet, rest and outside stress factors. The saying "overtraining does not exist only under eating....... blah blah" may be true but in real life we all have constraints on how much food we can ingest, how much sleep we can get and how our personal lives are going. Therefore I believe too much CAN be done in the gym based ones other commitments. I myself have felt the lethargy, weakness and flu like feelings that come with over reaching. I will not argue more sleep and more food would help but I was eating over 3500 of fairly clean food and too busy to sleep more. At that point I could only back of my training or modify intensity to prevent this feeling of lethargy.

    Also in my early years of training I do not rememeber ever encountering this despite often training seven days a week. But now I find if I am very motivated and putting a lot in I must listen to my body and know when to back off a bit. Something that was forgein to me as a novice lifter. I suspect this occurs because I now am able to grind out more reps and dig deeper which I suspect is adding to my need for my cns to recover far more than when I was less experienced. This may also have to do with my reps being far more deliberate than when I started training. I now am usually training more muscle than movement and holding contractions to a greater degree.
    What a first post
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - [email protected] .com

  13. Yea! wow what a read

    I think one of the best points to takeaway from this is 'What you do in the 23 hours outside the gym matters a LOT'
    "If you want to be happy, be." - Leo Tolstoy

  14. I think cardio is a tool in the tool box.

    I don't think everyone needs it.

    I do think everyone should be doing it.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  15. Quote Originally Posted by pyrobatt View Post
    I think cardio is a tool in the tool box.

    I don't think everyone needs it.

    I do think everyone should be doing it.
    Do you feel that maintaining good cardiovascular health carries over to better recovery? I know it helps improve oxygen delivery therefore contributing to better performance but to be honest I have always shy'd away from cardio. being that I have always worked physical jobs and naturally have a quick metabolism I have never "needed" it and kinda feared it. Not to say I wouldn't have benefited from it. I have started doing cardio but the driving force was keeping my dog healthy, It is still something I am adapeting to. I have noticed that I start to sweat faster and more easily in the gym. I suspect that just has to do with my body becoming more efficient at regulating tempurature. (only a hypothosis I came up with. My own bro science lol.) It could be a different factor entirely.

  16. Quote Originally Posted by Tufts604 View Post
    Do you feel that maintaining good cardiovascular health carries over to better recovery? I know it helps improve oxygen delivery therefore contributing to better performance but to be honest I have always shy'd away from cardio. being that I have always worked physical jobs and naturally have a quick metabolism I have never "needed" it and kinda feared it. Not to say I wouldn't have benefited from it. I have started doing cardio but the driving force was keeping my dog healthy, It is still something I am adapeting to. I have noticed that I start to sweat faster and more easily in the gym. I suspect that just has to do with my body becoming more efficient at regulating tempurature. (only a hypothosis I came up with. My own bro science lol.) It could be a different factor entirely.
    Maintaining endurance is the key to doing bodybuilding long term. If you can bench 405 for 5 reps but weeze going up stairs..it's only a matter of time before you become more injury prone.

    Cardiovascular health is often neglected and yes it helps recovery.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  17. Quote Originally Posted by Admin View Post
    You think its real or something that can fixed simply by calories?
    I think over training is real.

    I think it's more complex than calories in vs out. I also believe that you can adapt to constantly over training. Aka being an athlete.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  18. Jigzz has got it spot on in my opinion.

    I believe I've experienced overtraining in the past whilst running a Russian Masters routine for both Squat and Bench (Mon & Fri) and running Ed Coens Deadlift Routine on Wednesday. After pulling the heavy double in week 4 the load decreases in week 5. On week 5 when I attempted to pull what should have been an easy weight my whole body was literally shaking like a ****ting dog. I'd had problems sleeping and constant fatigue the few days before. It wasn't until I struggled with that deadlift that I considered it could be over training effecting CNS. I deloaded for a couple of weeks to recover and I would never run those two routines together again unless the loads were altered to suit.

  19. Quote Originally Posted by booneman77 View Post
    I 100% disagree with this. Steroids have absolutely nothing to do with CNS. Can you push more weight for more reps while on as well as partition nutrients better? Absolutely.

    But the one thing that steroids CANNOT fix is true CNS failure. You can take as many compounds as you want but at some point all that weight and strain on your mental capacity can absolutely overburden what is physically possible.

    Overtraining can be done by anyone, and I would venture to guess that many people on steroids actually have a BETTER chance of experiencing it since they are far more willing to go to extremes (diet, training, intensity, etc) than someone who is not.
    Someone who is on steroids is more likely to overtrain with 95 percent of the fitness industry lying and pushing programs that would overtrain any individual not on steroids? Bull****. You're clearly on gear and I'm clearly not. You can make up whatever nonsense you want about how steroids don't do much blah blah blah I've heard it all but come on..it's the same song and dance. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off right now but being natural is harder than being on gear and you definitely have to train harder and smarter to see results, to gain muscle, to burn fat and maintain any mass and to get close to your genetic potential. The industry is complete ****. I've used SOME VERY MILD hormones and the results were night and day. The only time I've ever received compliments in the gym from strangers is when I'm running something that's not natural. Even had one guy tell me. "Whatever it is you're doing keep doing it because it's working."All I was using was Formeron and Ostarine that's it. Absolutely nothing changed but the drugs and my body composition went from 160 pounds at a 30 inch waist to 175 pounds at a 30 inch waist. Naturally that type of weight gain would have put me at a 33 inch waist or 34. My genetics suck ass. Mind you my diet is perfection and I ****ing mean that. I never slip on diet and that's not an exaggeration. I've hit my macros almost dead on for a few years now every damn day

  20. Quote Originally Posted by JeremyNG25 View Post
    Someone who is on steroids is more likely to overtrain with 95 percent of the fitness industry lying and pushing programs that would overtrain any individual not on steroids? Bull****. You're clearly on gear and I'm clearly not. You can make up whatever nonsense you want about how steroids don't do much blah blah blah I've heard it all but come on..it's the same song and dance. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off right now but being natural is harder than being on gear and you definitely have to train harder and smarter to see results, to gain muscle, to burn fat and maintain any mass and to get close to your genetic potential. The industry is complete ****. I've used SOME VERY MILD hormones and the results were night and day. The only time I've ever received compliments in the gym from strangers is when I'm running something that's not natural. Even had one guy tell me. "Whatever it is you're doing keep doing it because it's working."All I was using was Formeron and Ostarine that's it. Absolutely nothing changed but the drugs and my body composition went from 160 pounds at a 30 inch waist to 175 pounds at a 30 inch waist. Naturally that type of weight gain would have put me at a 33 inch waist or 34. My genetics suck ass. Mind you my diet is perfection and I ****ing mean that. I never slip on diet and that's not an exaggeration. I've hit my macros almost dead on for a few years now every damn day
    I agree with what your saying, the drugs def enable your threshold to be larger, however everyones threshold is different. Some people can naturally recover better, thier hormones, gh levels are better than others. Which is why its all individual. Furthermore this thread hasnt mentioned natural or not. And you can still overtrain on drugs. Drugs are not magic, they just amplify the situation. Someone like yourself with thier diet on point would do well, but someone who cant train, eat or sleep right will not. Weve all seen the guy on a boatload of drugs and still looks like sh!t, rundown and tired.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by JeremyNG25 View Post
    Someone who is on steroids is more likely to overtrain with 95 percent of the fitness industry lying and pushing programs that would overtrain any individual not on steroids? Bull****. You're clearly on gear and I'm clearly not. You can make up whatever nonsense you want about how steroids don't do much blah blah blah I've heard it all but come on..it's the same song and dance. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off right now but being natural is harder than being on gear and you definitely have to train harder and smarter to see results, to gain muscle, to burn fat and maintain any mass and to get close to your genetic potential. The industry is complete ****. I've used SOME VERY MILD hormones and the results were night and day. The only time I've ever received compliments in the gym from strangers is when I'm running something that's not natural. Even had one guy tell me. "Whatever it is you're doing keep doing it because it's working."All I was using was Formeron and Ostarine that's it. Absolutely nothing changed but the drugs and my body composition went from 160 pounds at a 30 inch waist to 175 pounds at a 30 inch waist. Naturally that type of weight gain would have put me at a 33 inch waist or 34. My genetics suck ass. Mind you my diet is perfection and I ****ing mean that. I never slip on diet and that's not an exaggeration. I've hit my macros almost dead on for a few years now every damn day
    If you compete...being on gear is harder than being natural due to long term abuse having its Interesting little effects on overall health. Abuse it for a year without being monitored by a doctor and you'll feel like **** 24/7. Not to mention the constant immune system fluctuations, metabolic suppression, neurotransmitter depletion, e2 level fluctuations, prostate problems, elevated cortisol, cartilage damage, cardiac side effects and overall adjusted quality of life issues that come with dosage timing that come with steroids.

    A ton more stress for very little reward.


    Natural guys have a harder time getting lean(bodybuilding ) while holding on to mass but they have no problem maintaining weight or gaining. They actually tend to respond better to super compensation coming off of a contest. Get sick less too.

    As for everyday gym goers...slower the better. Less injuries =better. That's basically it. Oh and don't get fat unless you want to.

    Natural athletes have it better than you think.

    Especially with the better supplements, diet info and workout plans we have in 2015.
    Natural guys are a TON stronger than in the 60s through the 80s now.
    Online community manager/lead rep of Chaos and Pain,LLC and Fundamental Nutrition.Check us out!chaosandpain.com fnsupps.com Follow me on instagram:@pyrobatt

  22. Steroids don't do much. And genetics play a tiny role.

    Its all about hard work you guys!!!!

  23. Quote Originally Posted by JeremyNG25 View Post
    Someone who is on steroids is more likely to overtrain with 95 percent of the fitness industry lying and pushing programs that would overtrain any individual not on steroids? Bull****. You're clearly on gear and I'm clearly not. You can make up whatever nonsense you want about how steroids don't do much blah blah blah I've heard it all but come on..it's the same song and dance. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off right now but being natural is harder than being on gear and you definitely have to train harder and smarter to see results, to gain muscle, to burn fat and maintain any mass and to get close to your genetic potential. The industry is complete ****. I've used SOME VERY MILD hormones and the results were night and day. The only time I've ever received compliments in the gym from strangers is when I'm running something that's not natural. Even had one guy tell me. "Whatever it is you're doing keep doing it because it's working."All I was using was Formeron and Ostarine that's it. Absolutely nothing changed but the drugs and my body composition went from 160 pounds at a 30 inch waist to 175 pounds at a 30 inch waist. Naturally that type of weight gain would have put me at a 33 inch waist or 34. My genetics suck ass. Mind you my diet is perfection and I ****ing mean that. I never slip on diet and that's not an exaggeration. I've hit my macros almost dead on for a few years now every damn day
    You completely missed my point, man. My point had nothing to do with being on steroids or not, outside of the fact that those who use them very often are the more competitive, aggressive, and likely to push the envelope. I agree that its harder to make natty gains. It is.

    That doesn't change the fact that your initial post said that people on roids have no business talking about overtraining... which is untrue. Is it harder to? Sure, increased recovery and nutrient partitioning will go a long way. But what I'm trying to say is that people who choose roids should be doing it to push the envelope and these are the same people who if willing to be illegal, are certainly willing to push themselves mentally and physically past their limits. Obviously this is not true for everyone who uses, but to say anyone on roids has "no business talking about overtraining" is flat out incorrect.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Product Rep - [email protected] .com

  24. Quote Originally Posted by JeremyNG25 View Post
    Someone who is on steroids is more likely to overtrain with 95 percent of the fitness industry lying and pushing programs that would overtrain any individual not on steroids? Bull****. You're clearly on gear and I'm clearly not. You can make up whatever nonsense you want about how steroids don't do much blah blah blah I've heard it all but come on..it's the same song and dance. I'm gonna piss a lot of people off right now but being natural is harder than being on gear and you definitely have to train harder and smarter to see results, to gain muscle, to burn fat and maintain any mass and to get close to your genetic potential. The industry is complete ****. I've used SOME VERY MILD hormones and the results were night and day. The only time I've ever received compliments in the gym from strangers is when I'm running something that's not natural. Even had one guy tell me. "Whatever it is you're doing keep doing it because it's working."All I was using was Formeron and Ostarine that's it. Absolutely nothing changed but the drugs and my body composition went from 160 pounds at a 30 inch waist to 175 pounds at a 30 inch waist. Naturally that type of weight gain would have put me at a 33 inch waist or 34. My genetics suck ass. Mind you my diet is perfection and I ****ing mean that. I never slip on diet and that's not an exaggeration. I've hit my macros almost dead on for a few years now every damn day
    Here is my thoughts. What you experienced is initial gains from those substances. You would not have continued gaining weight at that rate. It would have slowed and ultimately stopped and you would have struggled the same to gain anymore size. Same with aas. if your not training like a jackass you without A Doubt will make Igains as you adapt to your new hormonal levels but to continue you must work just as hard on or off. its rare for someone on gear to simply keep putting on muscle or everyone would be mr.o. The samr principles to grow must be met. I don't give a **** what yiu take to make sustained growth or to get cut it still takes work. Stop with excuses if you arent gaining its your own fault. Make a change in your training and diet. Also change your mindset lookibg for reasons others are surpassing you is counter productive. Look at what you can do better within your moral constriction s. It sounds like your whining.
    Also even without aas involved peoples predisposition can greatly vary. So even off the start it might be harder for you than me or me than you. Deal with it. Overcome it. you are prob no where near your genetic potential anyway
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