Smith machine vs Dumbbell bench

LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm starting a new program soon and its basically benching,squating and deadlifting. well, my gym doesn't have a bench press but it has a smith machine. Any pros to using the smith over the dumbbells in place of the bench? or would it make more sense to use the dumbbells.

If neither I can just drive a half hour to another gym.
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
What kinda gym doesn't have a bench but hve smith machines?!
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
But if you're stuck there do both. Switch up on some days it doesn't matter much. You can push weight with the smith and then use DBs so you get some free weight action, get those ancillary muscle to work and learn how to support proper weight.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Haha an anytime fitness. The owner says some bs like since it's a 24 hour gym they can't have bench presses even though the anytime fitness 25 minutes away has like 5 bench presses
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
But if you're stuck there do both. Switch up on some days it doesn't matter much. You can push weight with the smith and then use DBs so you get some free weight action, get those ancillary muscle to work and learn how to support proper weight.
Yeah I switched pretty recently to this gym. It's like a mile away from my house. I was going to a baileys powerhouse which is much bigger. Thanks man
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm all about DBs after i injured my shoulder. Im healed now but I'm going to stick to DBs since it's better for my shoulders in general. I do use the barbell bench on incline and will need it soon once the 120lb DBs get too light. Of course I'm not there now that I'm almost 20lbs lighter
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I'm all about DBs after i injured my shoulder. Im healed now but I'm going to stick to DBs since it's better for my shoulders in general. I do use the barbell bench on incline and will need it soon once the 120lb DBs get too light. Of course I'm not there now that I'm almost 20lbs lighter
Did you injure it bench press?
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Did you injure it bench press?
Yes I have what they call a weightlifter shoulder and impingement. Had some bicep tendonitis too but they were all a product of one injury after another. After getting off the flat bench I'm so much better now and back to lifting with no pain.
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Dnt get me wrong I tried 275lbs last week on bench and I can still lift it. I just dnt want to push it. I'll probably attempt 315 again in about 6 weeks if I'm comfortable.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
D*mn man, hopefully it heals quick. I'm hoping to get my weight up there. I've been slacking on bench since I switched gyms and have been sticking with db. But haven't really seen the profession I want. That's what honestly makes me want to make the drive to the other gym
 
goodvibes

goodvibes

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
D*mn man, hopefully it heals quick. I'm hoping to get my weight up there. I've been slacking on bench since I switched gyms and have been sticking with db. But haven't really seen the profession I want. That's what honestly makes me want to make the drive to the other gym
I'm fully healed. It took about 3-4 months.
 
M

ma70

Well-known member
Awards
2
  • RockStar
  • Established
I'd say use both. Smith benching for pushing as much weight as possible, then DB pressing to make sure you're using all of the muscles that are normally involved in the normal bench press.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Okay well, the way the routine is set up the first day is 5x4 of bench 4x6 of squats and 5x5 of Overhead press.
 
AntM1564

AntM1564

Legend
Awards
4
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
  • First Up Vote
I say it depends on your goals. I used the smith machine for incline today for the first time in forever. It was a hypertrophy day for me so it was either that or dumbbells. With the smith machine, I like not having to worry about balancing anything. On a hypertrophy day, it really lets me focus on controlled form, really squeezing the muscle.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Okay, the program has two hypertrophy days, I may just alternate gyms.
 
RegisterJr

RegisterJr

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
No bench? Wtf???

How do you bench on the smith? I assume there are moveable benches if you can bench in the smith.

Move the bench to the squat rack. Then you can bb bench.

Assuming there is a squat rack...

If not, they likely aren't going to let you deadlift either, and if recommend you find a new place to workout.

To answer your question, DB pressing will be more beneficial to smith pressing because you have to use stabilizer muscles.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
No bench? Wtf???

How do you bench on the smith? I assume there are moveable benches if you can bench in the smith.

Move the bench to the squat rack. Then you can bb bench.

Assuming there is a squat rack...

If not, they likely aren't going to let you deadlift either, and if recommend you find a new place to workout.

To answer your question, DB pressing will be more beneficial to smith pressing because you have to use stabilizer muscles.
Yeah there are moveable benches and there's a squat rack. I may try that. Would it makes sense to say do my 5 sets of 4 on the smith then the squats for 3 sets of 6 then maybe 3 sets of 8 of flat db press. The last exercise is a bob overhead press.
 
RegisterJr

RegisterJr

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
Yeah there are moveable benches and there's a squat rack. I may try that. Would it makes sense to say do my 5 sets of 4 on the smith then the squats for 3 sets of 6 then maybe 3 sets of 8 of flat db press. The last exercise is a bob overhead press.
Well, whatever routine you decide to run just make sure it's not the same thing week in and week out.

That's how thou'eth plateau'eth.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Well, whatever routine you decide to run just make sure it's not the same thing week in and week out.

That's how thou'eth plateau'eth.
The routine is the dup method by mike Samuels and Jason maxwell
ImageUploadedByAnabolicMinds1434355673.952857.jpg
 
RegisterJr

RegisterJr

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
The routine is the dup method by mike Samuels and Jason maxwellView attachment 120299
Gotcha.

The downside of using a smith at all on a strength training routine is that there is no carryover to a a free-barbell at all. IMO, the smith is better utilized for accessory work.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
True, but it's what I have to work with besides using the squat rack as a bench press. Would you suggest doing db press between bench and overhead press on that day?
 
RegisterJr

RegisterJr

Legend
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • Legend!
  • Established
True, but it's what I have to work with besides using the squat rack as a bench press. Would you suggest doing db press between bench and overhead press on that day?
I understand.

It wouldn't hurt if you feel it in you. OHP is relatively non-taxing, to me, anyway, so another press beforehand may not take too much out of it.
 
P

plifter42

Member
Awards
0
Try this:

Incline Smith Machine Press
4 sets of 10

Flat Bench DB press
4 sets of 10
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I ended up just using the squat rack as a bench press. I got some funny looks but I bench more then they squat so whatever haha
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
Try this:

Incline Smith Machine Press
4 sets of 10

Flat Bench DB press
4 sets of 10
I may try that today. If I do it'll be 3 sets of 8 of each
 
asooneyeonig

asooneyeonig

Well-known member
Awards
0
What kinda gym doesn't have a bench but hve smith machines?!
gym's at a company that does not have anyone onsite to watch people and doesnt want to deal with the liability of someone dropping a weight on themselves. that is why corporate gyms are about worthless.
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
gym's at a company that does not have anyone onsite to watch people and doesnt want to deal with the liability of someone dropping a weight on themselves. that is why corporate gyms are about worthless.
Yeah it sucks big time
 
pyrobatt

pyrobatt

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • RockStar
  • Established
I'm starting a new program soon and its basically benching,squating and deadlifting. well, my gym doesn't have a bench press but it has a smith machine. Any pros to using the smith over the dumbbells in place of the bench? or would it make more sense to use the dumbbells.

If neither I can just drive a half hour to another gym.
There's nothing inherently wrong with the smith bench but I would do dB over smith. Mainly for shoulder health.

If you do end up choosing smith then at least go ahead and do your shoulder work with dbs.
 
choccyswag

choccyswag

Active member
Awards
0
Why not just use a plate loading chest press and shoulder press machine then? it will be safer and the results will be the same?
 
pyrobatt

pyrobatt

Well-known member
Awards
3
  • RockStar
  • RockStar
  • Established
Why not just use a plate loading chest press and shoulder press machine then? it will be safer and the results will be the same?

Same issue exist. Fixed bar path.
 
JG93

JG93

Active member
Awards
0
Just use the squat rack for benching, squatting. If it doesn't have the drop bars at the bottom you can deadlift as well.
If they have a moveable bench do your inclines with BB.
My anytime doesn't have a free bench, just squat rack.
I bench on it. Amith machines are great for targeting accessories but not carry overs.
 
jaces

jaces

Active member
Awards
0
flys and floor presses are good for peak contraction and *feel*
 
BigLarry

BigLarry

Member
Awards
2
  • Best Answer
  • First Up Vote
I honestly would go with Dumbbells for bench instead of restricting your range of motion with the smith.
Incline dumbbell bench has still and always will be my favorite exercise for chest.

Broscience, "you use machines? Well that's unfortunate because their lifting your not!" Ha :)
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
I've been doing floor presses in place of bench. But I have been doing incline on the smith on hypertrophy days. I feel like it works better then the smith for that but not for strength
 
jaces

jaces

Active member
Awards
0
I've been doing floor presses in place of bench. But I have been doing incline on the smith on hypertrophy days. I feel like it works better then the smith for that but not for strength
yeah i agree and its not an exercise for low reps .. normaly i dont go below 10 reps for it but its a good exercise to do dropsets on because you can just slide the weight of
 
Tufts604

Tufts604

New member
Awards
0
I think pick one. You have selected a routine that requires one exercise. Do either not both or you are making your own routine. personal I would do db presses. I am prejudiced against smith machines though. I have only ever stuck with two exercises on smith machine for any period of time. partially personal opinion I am sure they are more useful than i accept.
Also, I have read somewhere about the hierarchy of lifts. (Don't know where but someone important wrote it)
Here they are in order.
1. moving your body against gavity involving a stationary object ie dips push ups chins (can add weight)
2. moving weight against gravity while body is stationary
3. a machine using leverage not pulleys ie hammer strength
4. a machine using pulleys ie cable pulldown.
that of course is not in stone. sometime a cable fly is benificial to a fly but ultimatly for main lifts I hold this very true.
 
jaces

jaces

Active member
Awards
0
I think pick one. You have selected a routine that requires one exercise. Do either not both or you are making your own routine. personal I would do db presses. I am prejudiced against smith machines though. I have only ever stuck with two exercises on smith machine for any period of time. partially personal opinion I am sure they are more useful than i accept.
Also, I have read somewhere about the hierarchy of lifts. (Don't know where but someone important wrote it)
Here they are in order.
1. moving your body against gavity involving a stationary object ie dips push ups chins (can add weight)
2. moving weight against gravity while body is stationary
3. a machine using leverage not pulleys ie hammer strength
4. a machine using pulleys ie cable pulldown.
that of course is not in stone. sometime a cable fly is benificial to a fly but ultimatly for main lifts I hold this very true.
this is wrong.. because most exercises wil fall into a mix of 1 and 2
 
Tufts604

Tufts604

New member
Awards
0
False.
I cannot think of any exercises where your center mass is both moving and you are stationary moving a weight. It defies the nature of what I said. You cannot move yet be still. Unless we are speaking in proverbs. If so, i'm intirgued lost in the meaning. Maybe I explained it poorly.

No exercise can fall into more than one of these. Well three and four could if you made some levered pully machine but c'mon. Movements overlap all of these, the exercise does not.
Example's in order for one movement.
1. Push up: you are moving against gravity ie moving up and down. possibly with weighted... but the weight moves with you.
2. Bench Press: The weight is moved but you do not move. at no point during the lift have you moved your center mass against gravity.
3. Hammer strength chest press: weight moves you do not. weight moves via lever. direct load
4. Chest press machine: weight moves still you don't. weight moves via pulleys. indirect

Do you still disagree or is that clearer?
 
LiftWithDonuts

LiftWithDonuts

Well-known member
Awards
1
  • Established
False.
I cannot think of any exercises where your center mass is both moving and you are stationary moving a weight. It defies the nature of what I said. You cannot move yet be still. Unless we are speaking in proverbs. If so, i'm intirgued lost in the meaning. Maybe I explained it poorly.

No exercise can fall into more than one of these. Well three and four could if you made some levered pully machine but c'mon. Movements overlap all of these, the exercise does not.
Example's in order for one movement.
1. Push up: you are moving against gravity ie moving up and down. possibly with weighted... but the weight moves with you.
2. Bench Press: The weight is moved but you do not move. at no point during the lift have you moved your center mass against gravity.
3. Hammer strength chest press: weight moves you do not. weight moves via lever. direct load
4. Chest press machine: weight moves still you don't. weight moves via pulleys. indirect

Do you still disagree or is that clearer?
I personally think that bench should be at 1 on that list. Just because it's being pushed up against gravity and you having to use stabilizer muscles to keep the weight from going to wobble. Then push ups. Then chest press(I'm guessing you mean a smith?" Just because number 4(hammer strength) I feel like is rough on my shoulders and doesn't work as well as the smith.
 
Tufts604

Tufts604

New member
Awards
0
Okay lets look at it as a tool in choice for power and strength movements not as much bodybuilding.
Regarding chest you are right you must skip to two but that is because there is no good means of loading this exercise. plates on your back shifts your center of gravity above you, they dont sit well etc. If you were untrained and loading wasnt an issue pushups would be the go to. then bench then machine. Same for shoulders there is no suitable exercise that works by moving your body so skip to two. Legs: the best is at the top for strength and power. any squatting movement or deadlift type exercise is best. Arms: want strong arms do dips. Chins done correctly are also great for arm strength. Back: the chin up is best. for rows you cannot load them well while hanging to move your body so skip to twothe best exercise for strength is for a muscle or movement pattern is always at the top of the list.
 
jaces

jaces

Active member
Awards
0
how about a deadlift?? or push press or even a hang clean.. you defined it as one has to not move .. but in reality your body moves against or with that weight to compinsate
 
Tufts604

Tufts604

New member
Awards
0
huh you've made me see it differently. I suppose things can be two different classes. Certain patterns might skip a class or not really fit at all. very specific movement patterns cannot be replicated. Hang Cleans, snatches, powercleans do not fit as they cannot be replicated in any other manner with machine or otherwise so lets rule out the hang clean. or if not rule it out call it a two part movement one and two. Keep in mind the very nature of moving your body through space while it acts as the load increases the variabes which can be bad. Also There will be many more 2s than 1s. some muscles or movents may not even be able to be hit directly by a 1. For these the top of the hierarchy starts at 2.
Deadlift; I still say deadlift is in one. I say this because yes, you are moving a weight but its hung off of you in a fixed manner. the weight only moves as your whole bodies mass moves. Deadlift has no two or is kind of a combo of one and two. regardless that still puts it above the next closest thing which would be a combo one and three. that shrug machine that you can deadlift in . essentially just weights on a bar fixed to a pivot. This excercise is sub bar to the deadlift becasue of the addition of the level and pivot.

Push Press: I would say 2. The initial movement starts ith the whole body moving but it is only an assistant. If you look at the main function of the push press it is shoulders. You don't do it for leg growth despite driving with them. So we will assist the main mover, muscle or pattern. This being the pushing from the shoulders. During this movement Your body is stationary and the weight moves away. There is no 1 that I can think of for this exercise or a shoulder press. there are 3s' and 4s for shoulder press but no ones. The principle goes out the window due to external factors. Here being balance. TO move your body as weight in this you would have to invert and push against the ground. This might still hold value but we as humans have not adapted to pushing things while balancing on our hands upside down. There is way to much going on.

Bench Press: if you were untrained enough that a pushup had adaquate resistance it would be ideal. However most people are too strong to simply do bodyweight push ups. (which are great) the issue with the push up becomes loading. There is no way to load this that does not throuw off the movents dynamic. So once push ups must be loaded a bench press is supirior.

Squats: Squats are a 1. The majority of the bodies mass is in movement so its a 1. squats or variations are hands down the best STRENGTH builders for the legs. Squat press would be number 2. but I would throw it out again due to variables. Humans arent conditions by anything in life to adapt to that position so it is very awkward ( i would assume I do not squat press). due to this variable Skip to the next. Leg press with sliding sled for weights this is a 2/3 combo. which is still better than the leg press with pullies which I would put as a 4.

You must give some leway to the classes. this is only a rough outline. think of it in reverse. A hammer strength is better for strenght than a pully assisted machine. A barbell is better than a hammer strength. And any exercise that moves you against gravity works better than a barbell exercise so. This stays true untill funny variables come into play like balance and being upside down.
1, 2, and 3 all have great roles for bb's but for those after strength you will want to stick with the ones and twos. and 1's before 2's. I say this in reference to main lifts. assistance work may benifit greater from on 2,3 or even, 4.
 
Tufts604

Tufts604

New member
Awards
0
I cant stress this ebough this applies much more to strength than solely bodybuilding
 
jaces

jaces

Active member
Awards
0
huh you've made me see it differently. I suppose things can be two different classes. Certain patterns might skip a class or not really fit at all. very specific movement patterns cannot be replicated. Hang Cleans, snatches, powercleans do not fit as they cannot be replicated in any other manner with machine or otherwise so lets rule out the hang clean. or if not rule it out call it a two part movement one and two. Keep in mind the very nature of moving your body through space while it acts as the load increases the variabes which can be bad. Also There will be many more 2s than 1s. some muscles or movents may not even be able to be hit directly by a 1. For these the top of the hierarchy starts at 2.
Deadlift; I still say deadlift is in one. I say this because yes, you are moving a weight but its hung off of you in a fixed manner. the weight only moves as your whole bodies mass moves. Deadlift has no two or is kind of a combo of one and two. regardless that still puts it above the next closest thing which would be a combo one and three. that shrug machine that you can deadlift in . essentially just weights on a bar fixed to a pivot. This excercise is sub bar to the deadlift becasue of the addition of the level and pivot.

Push Press: I would say 2. The initial movement starts ith the whole body moving but it is only an assistant. If you look at the main function of the push press it is shoulders. You don't do it for leg growth despite driving with them. So we will assist the main mover, muscle or pattern. This being the pushing from the shoulders. During this movement Your body is stationary and the weight moves away. There is no 1 that I can think of for this exercise or a shoulder press. there are 3s' and 4s for shoulder press but no ones. The principle goes out the window due to external factors. Here being balance. TO move your body as weight in this you would have to invert and push against the ground. This might still hold value but we as humans have not adapted to pushing things while balancing on our hands upside down. There is way to much going on.

Bench Press: if you were untrained enough that a pushup had adaquate resistance it would be ideal. However most people are too strong to simply do bodyweight push ups. (which are great) the issue with the push up becomes loading. There is no way to load this that does not throuw off the movents dynamic. So once push ups must be loaded a bench press is supirior.

Squats: Squats are a 1. The majority of the bodies mass is in movement so its a 1. squats or variations are hands down the best STRENGTH builders for the legs. Squat press would be number 2. but I would throw it out again due to variables. Humans arent conditions by anything in life to adapt to that position so it is very awkward ( i would assume I do not squat press). due to this variable Skip to the next. Leg press with sliding sled for weights this is a 2/3 combo. which is still better than the leg press with pullies which I would put as a 4.

You must give some leway to the classes. this is only a rough outline. think of it in reverse. A hammer strength is better for strenght than a pully assisted machine. A barbell is better than a hammer strength. And any exercise that moves you against gravity works better than a barbell exercise so. This stays true untill funny variables come into play like balance and being upside down.
1, 2, and 3 all have great roles for bb's but for those after strength you will want to stick with the ones and twos. and 1's before 2's. I say this in reference to main lifts. assistance work may benifit greater from on 2,3 or even, 4.
no no i get what you were trying to say there just wanted to clearify.. i think the strength curve also fits into your post as 1-4 would target different parts of it
 

Similar threads


Top