Every set to failure?

[rocknroll]

I'm trying to put on muscle and I'm currently doing 3-4 sets with reps in the10-12 range, resting on 90 seconds, on a 4-day split routine.

Do you recommend doing EVERY set to failure except for a warmup set? This has always confused me.

For example, using bench as an example, I warmup with the bar for 15 quick reps, then do 95 lbs for 15 reps, then do 135 lbs for 3 sets. (I know…weak).

Set 1: 135 lbs. I'd rank about a 6 or 7 out of 10 on intensity…I could definitely do more, maybe 3-5 more reps.
Set 2: 135 lbs. I'd rank about a 8 out of 10 on intensity…I could do 1 or 2 more.
Set 3: 135 lbs. I do as many as possible… 10 out of 10 on intensity…Couldn't do any more.

Is this appropriate? If I were to do every set to failure, I'd obviously increase the first set in weight to keep in the 10-12 rep range, but then would have to drop the weight significantly (due to fatigue) on the second set to be able to do 10-12 reps….then even more on the 3rd set.

Make sense? Every set to failure no matter what the weight is or do I sort of ramp it up so that only the last set is truly maximum effort?

Seems that doing every set to failure every workout would lead to overtraining...

Maybe should do a day where every set is to failure and then the other day is more of the ramping up method whereby only the last set is to failure?
Thanks for your insight!

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I personally believe in hitting failure at every set. Thats how ive lifted for a while now. I dont save anything or hold back. I lift until i cant get another rep nd then ill use a spotter to force some more reps, or i will do partials. No matter what to stimulate growth your body needs a reason to change, and you must reach failure. Either through intensity and set by set or by overall volume .

 

[LeanEngineer]

I definitely try to get the last set of every exercise to failure but i dont do every set to failure.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

As long as you reach failure at some point in the workout your good to go. Also you dont have to hit failure everyday, some days you may wanna do some pump work, or do a deload week. I personally give it all i can as much as possible and see great results, but when i do gvt style or sometimes even the first couple sets of 5x5 im not at failue till the last sets.

 

[asooneyeonig]

the more experienced you are the better your body can handle going to failure. and by more experienced i mean heavy, hard lifting consistently for many years. if you are not sure, then you are not ready to go to failure all the time.

even if you feel you must, only do it on lighter sets like things below 80%. it should also be done only on accessory work. going to failure on stuff like deads, squat, bench, etc, can cause damage both physical and mental.

think of failure as a specialty tool in your tool box. one of those you hardly ever need or use but wow is it nice when you need it. use it sparingly and you will be fine.

 

[RCL86]

I did really well on sheiko and have keep a lot of the layout when I change my regiment.

This includes sets of 50%, 60%, 75%, 85%,and a failure set would only consist of 85% to 90% for 1-3 reps.

It's a high volume routine but my strength never stops going up.

I would say failure every set would be overtraining though, especially until you learn your own body.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

the more experienced you are the better your body can handle going to failure. and by more experienced i mean heavy, hard lifting consistently for many years. if you are not sure, then you are not ready to go to failure all the time.

even if you feel you must, only do it on lighter sets like things below 80%. it should also be done only on accessory work. going to failure on stuff like deads, squat, bench, etc, can cause damage both physical and mental.

think of failure as a specialty tool in your tool box. one of those you hardly ever need or use but wow is it nice when you need it. use it sparingly and you will be fine.

True story. I agree with that.

 

[HIT4ME]

I think you have to always balance volume, frequency, and intensity. There are high volume people on here that would be losing ground if they went to failure on every set. If you are going all-out all-the-time, you have to allow for proper recovery and that means reduced volume and frequency. Then you get into the question of, is it better to have quicker recovery and train more often (and thus see smaller improvements more often), or train less frequently (and hopefully see bigger improvements less often).

I have the mentality of, if you're warmed up and ready to go, why do sets that aren't to failure? I go all out, but I may only do 1-2 sets per exercise. I am also willing to decrease the weight on the second set if need be - to get some additional volume, but I keep my volume low.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

I did really well on sheiko and have keep a lot of the layout when I change my regiment.

This includes sets of 50%, 60%, 75%, 85%,and a failure set would only consist of 85% to 90% for 1-3 reps.

It's a high volume routine but my strength never stops going up.

I would say failure every set would be overtraining though, especially until you learn your own body.

Overtraining depends on the person. Honestly i hardly get sore anymore and i workout almost every day. I still hit prs in my lifts and still make progress in my phsique, but ive conditioned my body to this volume and frequency. Another person might overtrain on my regimen in a week or two lol. It all depends. I know some people who do three sessions a day, coming home from jail lol. So its all relative to the lifter. I remember arnold saying in pumping iron or that blueprint trainer intro that he never holds back and goes all out on every set. Dorian yates and mike menzer only hit fail on the last sets of excersize. These guy were hitting failure on negatives and static failure. Thats much different. And too much of that will definitely lead to overtraining.

 

[max d]

In almost 17yrs of lifting I can honestly say that I have only "over trained" once. It took a couple weeks but I fried my CNS from trying a new program that did way too much volume in deadlifts. For 3 weeks my strength continued to go down even while at a calorie surplus but was never sore. I think people get overtraining and being real sore with a bunch of built up lactic acid confused. Personally for strength work I leave one in the tank and try to hit failure, or close to it, on accessory work. That being said, I dont really think you need to hit absolute failure for growth. Just my expereince.

 

[RCL86]

Overtraining depends on the person. Honestly i hardly get sore anymore and i workout almost every day. I still hit prs in my lifts and still make progress in my phsique, but ive conditioned my body to this volume and frequency. Another person might overtrain on my regimen in a week or two lol. It all depends. I know some people who do three sessions a day, coming home from jail lol. So its all relative to the lifter. I remember arnold saying in pumping iron or that blueprint trainer intro that he never holds back and goes all out on every set. Dorian yates and mike menzer only hit fail on the last sets of excersize. These guy were hitting failure on negatives and static failure. Thats much different. And too much of that will definitely lead to overtraining.

Yes I couldn't agree more, it's person dependent and the real answer can only come from you and experimenting.

I may have rambled a bit in my lasts post but anyone who is familiar with the Boris sheiko routines knows that the volume is insane. This routines really redefined what I understood as "overtraining" and is more of a progressive failure rather than rep failure.

Training every set to failure and needing a spot does not work for me, but going a rep ( or two) away repeatedly does.

 

[kisaj]

I don't train to failure any longer with all sets. I used to buy into the theory that it was necessary and did it for some number of years, but it ends up being more detrimental, IMO. It extended my recovery period and I saw little benefit, so I am strategic with it now and generally will not go to failure on any of my big compound movements. Accessory work I will do so.

Just a quick study that most people point to- just for interest if you wanted to read on it.

http://jap.physiology.org/content/100/5/1647

 

[HIT4ME]

Going to failure is certainly NOT necessary for growth. There are a number of studies out there showing positive results with less-than-failure training. These programs, typically, have more volume to compensate. You can certainly improve with increases in volume, or increases in weight - both are ways of increasing workload. The issue is that the more weight you push, the higher the workload becomes at any given volume.

Also, keep in mind, overtraining doesn't always mean you see negative results - brief periods of overtraining may stall progress, and many people do this and call it "over reaching" and still see progress. The issue is, continued training like this will eventually stall and hinder progress. It also may be that you see results, but they aren't consistent/optimal.

Again (sorry to repeat) the issue gets back to the overall program. If you are training to failure (high intensity), then you have to moderate volume/frequency to compensate. If you are training with higher volume or frequency, then I think you need to consider a lower intensity. Both methods work, but it is like Quantum Mechanics and Relativity - the two just don't mix very well.

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Personally i am an iron addict and take the arnold approach. I normally lift to or close to POSITIVE failure on every set. The mike mentzer style is much more in depth into failure and intensity and can require a week plus between workouts of the same bodypart. It is kind of fascinating, but since i just love lifting, its not for me.

 

[bolt10]

How about during certain training cycles and times of the year you push it and train closer to failure and lower volume then other times of the year train with more volume and leave some in the tank?

I think that'd be better than only ever doing one approach.

 

[liftandswim]

How about during certain training cycles and times of the year you push it and train closer to failure and lower volume then other times of the year train with more volume and leave some in the tank? I think that'd be better than only ever doing one approach.

Nah, that sounds stupid.

 

[rocknroll]

I like the "specialty tool" analogy. Makes sense.

think of failure as a specialty tool in your tool box. one of those you hardly ever need or use but wow is it nice when you need it. use it sparingly and you will be fine.

 

[rocknroll]

Ok I've never heard of Boris Sheiko but I'll check it out.

Yes I couldn't agree more, it's person dependent and the real answer can only come from you and experimenting.

I may have rambled a bit in my lasts post but anyone who is familiar with the Boris sheiko routines knows that the volume is insane. This routines really redefined what I understood as "overtraining" and is more of a progressive failure rather than rep failure.

Training every set to failure and needing a spot does not work for me, but going a rep ( or two) away repeatedly does.

 

[RCL86]

Ok I've never heard of Boris Sheiko but I'll check it out.

Boris Sheiko was a powerlifting coach, his routines weren't designed for hypertrophy, which sounds like more what you are after. I was referencing as it might be considered overtraining by many people, but quite a few people have had great success with them.
Thanks!