Training Around Back Problem

[RJW719]

Hello ladies and gents,

I have been suffering from problems with the lumbar portion of my spine for about 5 years. I have worked with physical therapists and chiropractors in the past. However, I have not yet had an MRI done yet. I recently had my back flare up on me again. It was bad enough that I literally couldn't move without extreme pain. The doctor just gave me some oxycodone and cyclobenzaprine and sent me on my way with a follow up appt in a week to discuss getting an MRI done. In the past the flare ups have come on from something as simple as bending over to tie my shoe. I am currently taking some time off training to let my back recover but I have some questions about returning to lifting.

I have been training with 5/3/1 and would like to continue to do so once I am healthy enough to get back into things. However, I am worried about squatting, dead lifting and ohp. I read that wendler has said you can swap out the ohp for weighted dips here: 52 Most Common 5/3/1 Questions. I was thinking that I would still do ohp as accessory work seeing as the weight would be much lighter. Could I do the ohp accessory work on both the bench day and the dips day?

Next, the biggest issue Im having is what to do for squats and deadlifts. It seems like squats have a greater tendency to cause me pain/discomfort. More so than the deadlifts. I was thinking maybe I could do rack pulls with the pins set in the bottom hole which would put the bottom of the weight plates about 4" off the ground instead of pulling off the floor. Also, start out very light and work back up slowly.

What should I do about squats? Do I just start really light and work up very slowly? This is what I did after my last back problem. Or would it be better to try a different movement? Would front squats be better? Is there something else you might recommend?

I hate that I keep experiencing back problems that seem to keep setting me back in my training. Please share your advice or ideas on how I should move forward. Have any of you suffered for severe back issues and have been able to continue doing squats, deads, and ohp? Deadlifts and OHP are my favorites and I really don't want to have to give them up completely.

Thanks for any help you can provide!

 

[hulkish1]

with out proper images of the spine it is hard to tell what the condition that is troubling you is. i can tell you that you should be careful until you know what the route cause of the pain is. any form of pressure on the lumbar region of the spine should be avoided at this time and you need to get the mri and discuss action plans from there.

stop all movements that aggravate the condition until your MRI

 

[HIT4ME]

with out proper images of the spine it is hard to tell what the condition that is troubling you is. i can tell you that you should be careful until you know what the route cause of the pain is. any form of pressure on the lumbar region of the spine should be avoided at this time and you need to get the mri and discuss action plans from there.

stop all movements that aggravate the condition until your MRI

This. Here is the deal. You want to workout because it will make you feel accomplished, and you want to keep progressing. If you push this, and something is REALLY wrong, you will lose all of that progress and accomplishment forever. And if something is just kind of wrong, you will set yourself back 3-4X as long as if you just took a break.

I would take a week or two off at least, and use that time to push the doctor for an MRI or find a new doctor who will do one without pressure.

No need to be a hero

 

[Abraham67]

Personally to me sounds like a herniated disc, but youl have to see when you get an MRI.
STOP all movements in which you use your back. You can still hit other body parts, and do eliptical machine
Goals are not worth sacrificing your health for.

 

[RJW719]

Thanks for the replies! Reps!

I am still taking time off from lifting. My back is still in pain. I'm not trying to rush back into anything right now. I have gone through this enough to know it is far better to take time and heal properly than to rush things.

My question is really about what to do after I heal up. Let's say I have an MRI done and it is a ruptured disk or something else serious. What will I have to give up in the gym? Will I never be able to squat, deadlift, or overhead press again? Or would it be ok with light weight and higher reps? If I did have to give those lifts up, what things CAN I do?

My doctor and PT have said in the past that I needed to quit doing squats and deadlifts. However, being me and not having solid proof, like an MRI or X-ray, that proved it was something serious, I always just reset weight to a point that I could do higher rep sets and worked back up slowly. Obviously that hasn't cured the problem though.

So, has anyone else given up those big movements and still been able to add mass and continue building strength? I am aware of bodyweight progressions and how to continuously increase difficulty with those. Is that the direction you would recommend going?

 

[hulkish1]

depends on the injury when you get the MRI post back in with the results and i may be able to assist you and help you through it. I myself am a survivor of multiple ruptured disks and surgeries. my regiment does limit my big lifts, i can not dead lift or squat but have no issues with overhead press work. you can find other things to work lower back and quads. let me know what the findings are because right now we all have no idea whats really wrong

 

[Abraham67]

Here is my story.

When I was 17 I was going for my school record squat 540, when I went down I felt two pops in my spine. Finished the squat and thought nothing of it.

The next morning I had SEVERE back pain, in which I was admitted to the hospital and found I had slipped L5 and S1. Along with that I have spinal stenosis. so the discs slipped and crushed a nerve.
For the next 6 months I was bed ridden and unable to do most things people take for
granted.
With all this being said. Working out actually seemed to help my back, I strengthened my core, and did light back exercises in which I put no pressure through my spine.
I have learned to live with havin a bad back, and along with that changed my training style,
I now no longer train for strength, I train for aesthetics and endurance.
It's one of those things in life may throw in your way, you have to learn to adapt to it.
I do not squat anymore. Although I feel I definitley could with light weight.
Get your injury checked out, see what it is, and from there only do what's comfortable. squatting and hurting your back even more, may not be worth the long term health risks.

 

[RJW719]

Here is my story.

When I was 17 I was going for my school record squat 540, when I went down I felt two pops in my spine. Finished the squat and thought nothing of it.

The next morning I had SEVERE back pain, in which I was admitted to the hospital and found I had slipped L5 and S1. Along with that I have spinal stenosis. so the discs slipped and crushed a nerve.
For the next 6 months I was bed ridden and unable to do most things people take for
granted.
With all this being said. Working out actually seemed to help my back, I strengthened my core, and did light back exercises in which I put no pressure through my spine.
I have learned to live with havin a bad back, and along with that changed my training style,
I now no longer train for strength, I train for aesthetics and endurance.
It's one of those things in life may throw in your way, you have to learn to adapt to it.
I do not squat anymore. Although I feel I definitley could with light weight.
Get your injury checked out, see what it is, and from there only do what's comfortable. squatting and hurting your back even more, may not be worth the long term health risks.

Thanks for sharing your story. What does your training schedule look like if you don't mind me asking?

 

[Abraham67]

I have started to commit to more of full body workouts, with lighter weight and more reps. It's actually starting to become quite enjoyable to me. I also usually hit some cardio after my lifting sessions. I have noticed dramatic aesthetic changes since implementing more of a circuit training style of workout.

 

[grum7n7]

RJW, I have very similar problems to what you and others have stated in this thread...I trained for years with low back pain and neglected to even see my primary doc about it. It progressively got worse to the point where the pain was all the way down my left leg and into my toes and at one point I lost control of my bladder. this was finally enough for me to go get checked out...the doc set me up for an MRI and I got the results a couple days later. Ended up being L5 S1 grade 2 spondylolisthesis with pars defect and ruptured disk...I went through months of physical therapy and 4 rounds of epidural injections. I still have pain on a daily basis but I still train on a daily basis as well...I can't squat and I can't deadlift but it has not been a show stopper with regards to my gains...I still do seated rows with movement at the hips to engage the lower back...and I do seated leg press as well as the sled.

main thing is figure out what your injury is and LISTEN TO YOUR BODY! You will figure out what you can do and what you can't do...

and another little bit of info, sometimes the WORST thing you can do for lower back pain is rest...excercise can most certainly help your cause if it's done right of course.

good luck man and get that MRI done. I'm curious to hear what the results are...wouldn't be surprised if it's spondylolisthesis

 

[tybolton]

OP, how old are you? You really should see a specialist and get that MRI. I totally understand your frustration about not being able to squat. I love squatting and deads, even at my age. Take it easy and find out what's going on with your back. Do you have pain when performing sumo squats? I've never had any trouble with my back over the years squatting and dead lifting heavy, just my knees. A few months ago, my knees wouldn't even let me sit on the bench and bicycle. I stopped squatting and doing deads for about 6 weeks. I incorporated light deads back into my workout for about 4 weeks before I attempted to squat again. I just started squatting heavy again within the last 6 weeks. I changed up my form with a wider stance and shifting more weight to my butt and hamstrings. I know that has nothing to do with your back. I'm just trying to say that I never thought I'd squat or deadlift again after having so much knee pain. Needless to say, today, I have no knee pain. Don't give up, just find out why you're having the pain and bounce back...GOOD LUCK BRO!! brb...i squatted some heavy weight today, and feel great

 

[SuapaFreak]

I wouldn't do anything that causes pain.... Squats Ohp all put pressure on the spine.. It compresses... Get the MRI asap.. P
You don't want to risk losing your gains just for a few days in the gym.. You could make it worse..
Hang in there.

 

[RJW719]

OP, how old are you?

I'm 30

 

[RJW719]

Thanks for the replies guys. I will let you know what happens with the doc.

 

[compudog]

Chris Duffin did a series of short videos with Dr. Phillip Snell on performing powerlifting movements for people with lumbar issues. It was posted for free briefly, but now it's on fixyourownback.com and from what I understand you have to pay for it.

That said, Duffin also made another video which covers essentially the same information. I've put a link below. The short version is, in order to protect your lower back you need to learn how to properly brace your core. When you get back to lifting, this is what you'll need to do in order to prevent re-injury.

I had lower back issues for a long time, since I started practicing this technique it's pretty much gone away so I can personally vouch that it works.

HTH

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VcY3YSW9vX4

 

[alpha rogue]

Consider pre-exhaust movements prior to your compound movements. I've had more surgeries than Frankenstein, so "pre-exhaust" is an absolute necessity for me. Do away with the deadlifts, you'll pay to high a price! If you insist on squatting, do them LAST in your leg routine, and you may want to try Dave Draper's Top Squat apparatus. Personally, I would do away with squats altogether....They were a mainstay for me in my younger years (I'm 59 now), but the bottom line is you can still make decent gains without them.

 

[LDubs]

compudog. Thanks for the link! I have also dealt with nagging back issues for quite some time. Subbed for more advice on dealing with it.

 

[tybolton]

Let us know, and good luck...

 

[compudog]

compudog. Thanks for the link! I have also dealt with nagging back issues for quite some time. Subbed for more advice on dealing with it.

No problem. I would check out the videos on fix your own back dot com if you can. The article is called "Powerlifting With the Flexion Intolerant Back" there's a lot of good info there.

 

[drinkyboy]

There's always dumbbell lunges and elevated lunges. These have worked wonders for me and back for giving. I know there is a hip squat belt that may be worth a look.

 

[RJW719]

Well i finally have my results from the MRI. I got them a few days ago. They said there was mild degenerative disc disease, with minor bulging at L4-L5 and L5-S1. There was no herniation.

So my question is, if I go very slowly and really focus on strengthening my entire core, could I someday begin squatting and dead lifting again? Or would it be best to find alternative exercises to avoid reinjuring my back?

The doctor made it sound like things will continue getting worse with age when he was talking about the degenerative disc disease. So that is why I'm wondering if squats and deads are ok to go back to or not.

 

[hulkish1]

Well there is no cure for the degenerative disk disease it does get worst as you age. basically your disk is a small cushion filled with a jelly like substance called a nucleolus. and normal wear and tear of everyday life wears on the cushion which is a rigid cartilage once the cartilage starts to wear it can tear and the liquid can shift and press the outer case of the disk outward into the spine space this is a bulge. once the outer case tears and the liquid leaks out this is called a rupture .
there are theories out there that once you sustain a serious enough back injury the disks above and under can start to deteriorate and have issues. at this point i would take a fair amount of time off and hope the nuclei settles back and the bulge resolves itself with out further medical attention.

core focus after some time off will be huge and help but not solve the issues. once you have the degeneration it is for life and the disk will continue to have issues. read your own signature my man and take its advice squats and deads for mass weight will only cause you further heart break and injury.

my lower back is junk from not listening and doing what i want. here is the proof
l5-s1 fusion
l4-l5 disk and lamina surgery
l3-l4 disk and lamina surgery
l2-l3 disk and lamina surgery

my lower back looks like im 70yrs old from the rapid degeneration that has occurred
i still train but no where near what i did. ,deads and squats are out for me but i do leg press,extension variations and glute and hamstring work til i cant walk.
lower back extension work and it has worked great after i loose the extra pounds put on from last surgery my focus is shifting to physique over body and power lifting.

good luck and make the right choices