On Squat Depth

[genthoseffect]

How low should you go? When I first started lifting/bodybuilding, I always squatted atg, my calves would hit my hams with every rep. That's what was preached to me for years and years. But truthfully, I did not experience a lot of growth with that range of motion, my back always hurt, my quads were rarely the limiting factor in my sets. And, for a bodybuilder, strictly concerned with building quads and hams, I believe a shorter range of motion is best

About 5 years ago I started having lower back issues. So on the advice of an ex IFBB pro, I shortened my depth. *****! Fraud! That was how I felt. I got embarrassed for people to see me and my terrible form as I saw it...but a funny thing happened. My thighs started growing like they hadn't grown since I first began slinging the weights around! Even though I felt a little like a cheat, the weight I was "squatting" increased quickly...AND my back was feeling as good as it had ever felt.

It took me while to get over myself and stop caring about what people thought about how I squatted. Because by limiting my range of motion, I can keep ALL the tension during a set on my quads. Put more weight on them, force them to do more work, and bring them to complete failure like I could never when I was still squatting ass to grass.

I have since shortened my ROM even more. My major working sets of squats are done just short of parallel and never locking out at the top. Quads get no rest, no bounce at the bottom of reps as you see from a lot of lifters. Constant tension and heavy loads, that's the recipe for growth of any musclegroup...I'd probably get my ass handed to me if I ever entered a powerlifting meet due to "no lifts"...but I don't give a flying ****...my back is healthy and my quads are still growing

Give it a try. You will not be dissapointed

 

[Jiigzz]

How low should you go? When I first started lifting/bodybuilding, I always squatted atg, my calves would hit my hams with every rep. That's what was preached to me for years and years. But truthfully, I did not experience a lot of growth with that range of motion, my back always hurt, my quads were rarely the limiting factor in my sets. And, for a bodybuilder, strictly concerned with building quads and hams, I believe a shorter range of motion is best

About 5 years ago I started having lower back issues. So on the advice of an ex IFBB pro, I shortened my depth. *****! Fraud! That was how I felt. I got embarrassed for people to see me and my terrible form as I saw it...but a funny thing happened. My thighs started growing like they hadn't grown since I first began slinging the weights around! Even though I felt a little like a cheat, the weight I was "squatting" increased quickly...AND my back was feeling as good as it had ever felt.

It took me while to get over myself and stop caring about what people thought about how I squatted. Because by limiting my range of motion, I can keep ALL the tension during a set on my quads. Put more weight on them, force them to do more work, and bring them to complete failure like I could never when I was still squatting ass to grass.

I have since shortened my ROM even more. My major working sets of squats are done just short of parallel and never locking out at the top. Quads get no rest, no bounce at the bottom of reps as you see from a lot of lifters. Constant tension and heavy loads, that's the recipe for growth of any musclegroup...I'd probably get my ass handed to me if I ever entered a powerlifting meet due to "no lifts"...but I don't give a flying ****...my back is healthy and my quads are still growing

Give it a try. You will not be dissapointed

If your back was sore, perhaps ypur technique was flawed to begin with? I much prefer parallel squats for growth as well as for knee stability but to each their own.

Good work on the progress

 

[HIT4ME]

Squats are such an interesting topic. You have the standard ATG range of motion that everyone is told to strive for. And of course, go heavy at the same time. And hit them first in your workout so you can use the heaviest weights.

Then on the other hand you have Dorian Yates who stopped squatting during his professional career and saw tremendous growth without squats. He simply decided he wasn't really built for squats and they weren't as effective for him as others.

In my personal experience I used to squat first and squat heavy. Then I would do the auxiliary exercises. In reality, this was an ego boosting strategy more than a leg boosting strategy. I could squat more weight and feel good about saying "I squatted XXX pounds". Now, since putting my ego aside, I've realized that I prefer a different approach. I warm up with 1 set of squats, then warm up with 1 set of leg extensions. After that, I do working sets of leg extensions to failure, then squats, then leg presses. I have to reduce the squat weight by a little bit, but it is worth it. By hitting the leg extensions first I pre-exhaust my quads and squats have much more of an impact on my legs even at a lighter weight. The lighter weight also helps to take some stress off my lower back and helps me focus on form more.

I go ATG right now because I'm not bodybuilding per se, I do this more for ease of movement and to increase my abilities with some focus on building mass, and ATG allows me to work on improving movement in real life. Doing parallel or just shy of parallel squats with heavier weights wouldn't scare me though....I can see that they would have their place and may try to incorporate them sometime.

I find that many people get hung up on things that don't improve their performance. For years I thought "Squats are the King of all exercises. Deadlifts are #2". I also thought you HAD to bench press to get a strong chest/upper body.

Now that I'm older I've made my own decisions. Deadlifts translate into real life better than any exercise in my opinion and they are the real king. Squats are #2 if you have to rank them. And I've stopped bench pressing on any regular basis and instead do dumbbell flyes, incline dumbbell presses and dips. I guess being able to accept knowledge and still make your own decisions is a big part of this game.

 

[cumminslifter]

squatting to parallel or slightly below will give you all the benefit you need. Going any lower will not help anything

 

[Jiigzz]

Squats are such an interesting topic. You have the standard ATG range of motion that everyone is told to strive for. And of course, go heavy at the same time. And hit them first in your workout so you can use the heaviest weights.

Then on the other hand you have Dorian Yates who stopped squatting during his professional career and saw tremendous growth without squats. He simply decided he wasn't really built for squats and they weren't as effective for him as others.

In my personal experience I used to squat first and squat heavy. Then I would do the auxiliary exercises. In reality, this was an ego boosting strategy more than a leg boosting strategy. I could squat more weight and feel good about saying "I squatted XXX pounds". Now, since putting my ego aside, I've realized that I prefer a different approach. I warm up with 1 set of squats, then warm up with 1 set of leg extensions. After that, I do working sets of leg extensions to failure, then squats, then leg presses. I have to reduce the squat weight by a little bit, but it is worth it. By hitting the leg extensions first I pre-exhaust my quads and squats have much more of an impact on my legs even at a lighter weight. The lighter weight also helps to take some stress off my lower back and helps me focus on form more.

I go ATG right now because I'm not bodybuilding per se, I do this more for ease of movement and to increase my abilities with some focus on building mass, and ATG allows me to work on improving movement in real life. Doing parallel or just shy of parallel squats with heavier weights wouldn't scare me though....I can see that they would have their place and may try to incorporate them sometime.

I find that many people get hung up on things that don't improve their performance. For years I thought "Squats are the King of all exercises. Deadlifts are #2". I also thought you HAD to bench press to get a strong chest/upper body.

Now that I'm older I've made my own decisions. Deadlifts translate into real life better than any exercise in my opinion and they are the real king. Squats are #2 if you have to rank them. And I've stopped bench pressing on any regular basis and instead do dumbbell flyes, incline dumbbell presses and dips. I guess being able to accept knowledge and still make your own decisions is a big part of this game.

Definitely goal and person dependent. Squatting ATG was just wasted energy for me. I also mix up 1 1/2 squats for growth as these really smash my quads, followed my leg press then leg extension then back to a final set of squats.

 

[HIT4ME]

Definitely goal and person dependent. Squatting ATG was just wasted energy for me. I also mix up 1 1/2 squats for growth as these really smash my quads, followed my leg press then leg extension then back to a final set of squats.

I agree, and I think that learning to use both methods can be useful. Just an extra variable, or tool in the toolbox.

 

[HIT4ME]

squatting to parallel or slightly below will give you all the benefit you need. Going any lower will not help anything

This is probably somewhat true - if muscle size is your only measure, than this may be just as useful at the end of the day as ATG. On the other hand, I think you will get increased mobility from ATG vs. parallel. Again, it depends on your goals and what tools you want to have in your toolbox.

 

[genthoseffect]

I think its very much an individual thing. Each person's structure and body mechanics will dictate what form is best. For me, I'd rather keep the tension on my quads with squats, and use other movements like romanian deads to hit my glute/hams heavy and keep tension on them the whole movement

 

[CountryLiftin]

Pause squats at parallel/true depth (hip crease below knee) and that's all you need. No more no less. Other stuff does work, sure. If you only want quads you don't need to go as deep. But you're still going to be most productive squatting to depth. Not ATG.

 

[throneof]

I used to squat ATG, though I had butt wink while doing it. Nowadays I squat with a powerlifter's mechanics and go just a touch below parallel. Feels better and haven't noticed any differences in hypertrophy better or worse

 

[jaces]

I feel that squat depth is different persone to persone , personaly I dnt squat much , only every 3rd wek , but who cares if you only go down 3 inches if u have 25 inch thighs?clearly that works for u

 

[jaces]

I feel that squat depth is different persone to persone , personaly I dnt squat much , only every 3rd wek , but who cares if you only go down 3 inches if u have 25 inch thighs?clearly that works for u so dnt change it

 

[PILL]

You were probably having back issues caused by buttwink. A lot of lifters end up in lumbar flexion because of a lack of flexibility.

 

[jaces]

You were probably having back issues caused by buttwink. A lot of lifters end up in lumbar flexion because of a lack of flexibility.

Yes this is true , this and ankle mobility determin squat depth

 

[Wrivest]

Yes this is true , this and ankle mobility determin squat depth

if ankle mobility is overly impacting squat depth, you are letting your knees go too far forward. Sit back into your squat using a good hip hinge and keep the shins more vertical

 

[throneof]

I feel that squat depth is different persone to persone , personaly I dnt squat much , only every 3rd wek , but who cares if you only go down 3 inches if u have 25 inch thighs?clearly that works for u so dnt change it

That's one way to look at it. Another way to look at it is if you go deeper you may achieve 26 inch thighs...

 

[throneof]

You were probably having back issues caused by buttwink. A lot of lifters end up in lumbar flexion because of a lack of flexibility.

I had some mobility issues that have been fixed with a variety of MFR and mobility drills.

 

[jaces]

if ankle mobility is overly impacting squat depth, you are letting your knees go too far forward. Sit back into your squat using a good hip hinge and keep the shins more vertical

True but most people cant do this bcuz they would lean to far forward , so I recomend to ppl to try and kep the shins vertical til just above 90 and then to go a litl deper they must bring the knes forward , but nt further than the toes

 

[herderdude]

True but most people cant do this bcuz they would lean to far forward , so I recomend to ppl to try and kep the shins vertical til just above 90 and then to go a litl deper they must bring the knes forward , but nt further than the toes

It's more like keep shins vertical until the depth that you said and then open the hips to achieve depth.

If you let your knees crush forward in the bottom you actually don't gain any more hip flexion, just shear forces on the knee.

I have a training partner who used to squat as you describe, and he could never hit competition depth without a heavy wrap to push him back, and he experienced a lot of knee pain when squatting without wraps.

 

[throneof]

It's more like keep shins vertical until the depth that you said and then open the hips to achieve depth. If you let your knees crush forward in the bottom you actually don't gain any more hip flexion, just shear forces on the knee. I have a training partner who used to squat as you describe, and he could never hit competition depth without a heavy wrap to push him back, and he experienced a lot of knee pain when squatting without wraps.

Just for clarification: when I squat, I shouldn't open up the hips until the bottom or so? So back, straight down, then open hips?

I'll have to throw up a squat vid of me so you can critique

 

[herderdude]

Just for clarification: when I squat, I shouldn't open up the hips until the bottom or so? So back, straight down, then open hips?

I'll have to throw up a squat vid of me so you can critique

You're still driving out on your shoes the whole time, but the easiest way to hit comp depth is to keep opening the hips, yes. You can do all three in a smooth fashion, or break them up, like bolt10 or Mark Bell. A vid would be best and there are many ways of phrasing to achieve the same end. How you should go about it is going to depend on your individual leverages, mobility, stance width, bar placement and footwear. For example, Just for myself I have different cues bouncing around in my head for low bar with wraps, without wraps, front/Oly squat, box squats, and with PLing gear. Don't think I'm equally proficient at all of them, but when I have no specific goal at the time, I work each one.

 

[jaces]

It's more like keep shins vertical until the depth that you said and then open the hips to achieve depth.

If you let your knees crush forward in the bottom you actually don't gain any more hip flexion, just shear forces on the knee.

I have a training partner who used to squat as you describe, and he could never hit competition depth without a heavy wrap to push him back, and he experienced a lot of knee pain when squatting without wraps.

Yes yes no I agre if your a powerlifter ths wnt work but im loking at it frm a bodybuildr perspective

 

[jaces]

Just for clarification: when I squat, I shouldn't open up the hips until the bottom or so? So back, straight down, then open hips?

I'll have to throw up a squat vid of me so you can critique

Easy way to do ths is to take litle mre than shouldr width stance and point your toes to the outside, when you go down the knees should point in the direction of the toes , kep the weight balanced over the entire foot,,this wl make the hip movement easier and stronger

 

[Rodja]

Easy to spot the knowledgable squatters and the bro squatters ITT. The idea that squats should be "felt" in the quads is a ridiculous notion due to the fact it's biomechanically impossible to not have significant activity in the glutes, hamstrings, and (to a smaller extent) the erectors. ATG is good in theory, but a very small percent of the population will have the hip, ankle, and hamstring mobility to properly do so and will lead to excessive extension of the lumbar at the bottom. Squat form is going to vary primarily on stance width more than anything and the amount of external rotation at the femur needed for proper glute engagement. Herder has already touched on the basics of squatting and there's not too much to add beyond elbow positioning and ribcage positioning while squatting for maximum leverage.

 

[jaces]

Easy to spot the knowledgable squatters and the bro squatters ITT. The idea that squats should be "felt" in the quassia a ridiculous notion due to the fact it's biomechanically impossible to not have significant activity in the glutes, hamstrings, and (to a smaller extent) the erectors. ATG is good in theory, but a very small percent of the population will have the hip, ankle, and hamstring mobility to properly do so and will lead to excessive extension of the lumbar at the bottom.

Squat form is going to vary primarily on stance width more than anything and the amount of external rotation at the femur needed for proper glute engagement. Herder has already touched on the basics of squatting and there's not too much to add beyond elbow positioning and ribcage positioning while squatting for maximum leverage.

True but as with most compounds I feel that there is a base form to folow but the perfect form wl differ frm person to person

 

[Rodja]

True but as with most compounds I feel that there is a base form to folow but the perfect form wl differ frm person to person

The "base" form doesn't even begin to cover the proper way. This is the thing that so few people understand about why it's important to powerlift. BB'ers have a myopic view of a movement and only think of a small area when you need to think of the whole body. We're a giant chain and you have to account for each link for maximum progress and, probably more importantly, safety.

 

[jaces]

The "base" form doesn't even begin to cover the proper way. This is the thing that so few people understand about why it's important to powerlift. BB'ers have a myopic view of a movement and only think of a small area when you need to think of the whole body. We're a giant chain and you have to account for each link for maximum progress and, probably more importantly, safety.

U do know that most bodybuildrs dnt squat or they do squats at. The end?

 

[Rodja]

U do know that most bodybuildrs dnt squat or they do squats at. The end?

If that's true, and in my experience it's not, then that's even more retarded.

 

[jaces]

If that's true, and in my experience it's not, then that's even more retarded.

Why?? Bcuz u thnk it is? As a bodybuildr you dnt thnk in terms of a movement but mre in terms of the contraction , flexion and stimulation of a muscle

 

[Rodja]

Why?? Bcuz u thnk it is? As a bodybuildr you dnt thnk in terms of a movement but mre in terms of the contraction , flexion and stimulation of a muscle

Get back to me when you have some more experience training and all the things wrong with that statement.

 

[jdg76]

U do know that most bodybuildrs dnt squat or they do squats at. The end?

I've never heard of such thing? I have always did squats...

 

[jaces]

Get back to me when you have some more experience training and all the things wrong with that statement.

You are just. Narow minded as if your way is optimal for everyone , imo u can never knw it al as smeone can always teach u smthng new , if u go threw life wth this aprouch than your progres wl be limitd to. Your own arogance,, sory if I pisd u of ,,

 

[PILL]

Easy to spot the knowledgable squatters and the bro squatters ITT. The idea that squats should be "felt" in the quads is a ridiculous notion due to the fact it's biomechanically impossible to not have significant activity in the glutes, hamstrings, and (to a smaller extent) the erectors. ATG is good in theory, but a very small percent of the population will have the hip, ankle, and hamstring mobility to properly do so and will lead to excessive extension of the lumbar at the bottom. Squat form is going to vary primarily on stance width more than anything and the amount of external rotation at the femur needed for proper glute engagement. Herder has already touched on the basics of squatting and there's not too much to add beyond elbow positioning and ribcage positioning while squatting for maximum leverage.

I agree with this completely, however you can feel squats primarily in the quads by doing a hip width squat. I personally like to alternate between wide stance and hip width stance squats. The only problem is a lot of lifters might not have the anxle or hip mobility to do these without pushing the knees way forward or turning it into a good morning to get the depth they want.

Ultimately I agree with you that mobility is the ultimate factor that comes in to play when figuring out how someone should squat, and you can't think of any exercise on its own. Any exercise, especially one like squats, will be affecting the whole kinetic chain.

 

[Rodja]

You are just. Narow minded as if your way is optimal for everyone , imo u can never knw it al as smeone can always teach u smthng new , if u go threw life wth this aprouch than your progres wl be limitd to. Your own arogance,, sory if I pisd u of ,,

It would help if I could understand what you're trying to say with this statement.

 

[jaces]

I've never heard of such thing? I have always did squats...

No me to but since ive tried mre leg press and hack squats my legs have grown sme mre , only squating 1-2 times in a month

 

[jaces]

I agree with this completely, however you can feel squats primarily in the quads by doing a hip width squat. I personally like to alternate between wide stance and hip width stance squats. The only problem is a lot of lifters might not have the anxle or hip mobility to do these without pushing the knees way forward or turning it into a good morning to get the depth they want.

Ultimately I feel that mobility is the ultimate factor that comes in to play when figuring out how someone should squat.

U see this is my point exactly , you feel those mre in the quad were as I feel it in the glute

 

[jaces]

I agree with this completely, however you can feel squats primarily in the quads by doing a hip width squat. I personally like to alternate between wide stance and hip width stance squats. The only problem is a lot of lifters might not have the anxle or hip mobility to do these without pushing the knees way forward or turning it into a good morning to get the depth they want.

Ultimately I feel that mobility is the ultimate factor that comes in to play when figuring out how someone should squat.

U see this is my point exactly , you feel those mre in the quad were as I feel it in the glute , everyones diferent

 

[Rodja]

U see this is my point exactly , you feel those mre in the quad were as I feel it in the glute

Maybe you don't know how to squat properly.

 

[PILL]

U see this is my point exactly , you feel those mre in the quad were as I feel it in the glute , everyones diferent

Yes I feel narrow stanced squats more in the quads, but for most people doing a normal squat it would be more glutes and hamstrings.

 

[jaces]

Yes I feel narrow stanced squats more in the quads, but for most people doing a normal squat it would be more glutes and hamstrings.

I feel a wider stance mre in the quads

 

[Wrivest]

This thread is getting fun......

 

[Rodja]

This thread is getting fun......

With the 19 year old giving out training advice. It's like bb.com up in here right now.

 

[hooah47]

Squatting is a posterior chain dominant movement. If you want more quad developement, do front squats. You'll still get posterior chain work from it, with some added quad development.

 

[herderdude]

Yes yes no I agre if your a powerlifter ths wnt work but im loking at it frm a bodybuildr perspective

There is no "powerlifter" technique and "bodybuilding" technique, either in the squat or the bench. There's the right way to squat and the wrong way. You can make technique adjustments as I mentioned above to achieve your goals, but to think bodybuilders should perform the big 3 differently than powerlifters is a massive bro fallacy. Even the highly regarded John Meadows performs box squats and specialty bar squats like a powerlifter.

 

[cumminslifter]

I feel a wider stance mre in the quads

shouldnt be that way, should be more adductor, glutes

 

[ishpart]

It depends.... just like changing your stance width or the bar position on your back squat depth is yet another variable in the bag that can be utilized to achieve your goals. Everything has its place

 

[jaces]

There is no "powerlifter" technique and "bodybuilding" technique, either in the squat or the bench. There's the right way to squat and the wrong way. You can make technique adjustments as I mentioned above to achieve your goals, but to think bodybuilders should perform the big 3 differently than powerlifters is a massive bro fallacy. Even the highly regarded John Meadows performs box squats and specialty bar squats like a powerlifter.

Powerlifters bench mre with triceps and delts by using tuckd elbows and a narower grip , bodybuildrs use mre flared elbow and wider grip,,, powerlifters use a low bar squat and bb use a high bar squat

 

[Wrivest]

^^ dude, just stop, trust me you'll lose this argument. Rodja , what say you, good sir???

 

[jaces]

Have any of u competed??

 

[jaces]

Even the great charles glass has vids on this very topic, were he fully shows the diference in techniqs