Advice on this training program I put together?

arbliss

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I'm looking for a program to do that will take about 45 minutes or less, 4 days a week, that will allow me to continue building muscle. My goal here was to create a hypertrophy program that I can switch the rep ranges about 6 weeks in to lower reps for strength. I'm planning on doing a slow bulk (10%-20% calories above maintenace) for the next several months, and was trying to find something focused on hypertrophy/strength (using the compound excercises). I'm 158 lbs, 6', and at about 9-10% body fat. I believe I have some of my beginner gain's out of the way, probably not all of them though. Any advice is greatly appreciated!

Sample Program I created:

Day 1
Squat
Leg Press
Lunges
Calf Raises

Day 2
Bench
Incline Bench
Rope Pushdowns
Overhead Tri Ext.

Day 3
BB Row
Pull Ups
BB Curls
Hammer Curls

Day 4
Overhead Press
Upright Rows
Lateral Raises
Shrugs

I want to also fit deadlifts in there somewhere. Also is this enough volume for growth?

Rep Ranges for first 6 weeks or so....
Warmup Set (not sure rep range)
Set 1 (12 Reps)
Set 2 (10 Reps)
Set 3 (8 Reps)

Is this enough sets?

I figured I would do abs as well probably twice a week. And I believe the rep ranges for calf work would be maybe 30/25/20. Thank you for any help/advice!
 
OnionKnight

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3 upper body days vs 1 lower body day. You also have a shoulder and bench day with no direct work to the rear delts at all. You're setting yourself up for some imbalances already

If you want to make your own plan, go with 2 uppers and 2 lowers with each day focusing on anterior and posterior work. Or to keep it simple, just pick a popular routine and stick with it for awhile. 5x5 comes to mind
 
smshannon001

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I like the 5x5 suggestion^^^

Or add to day 3:
Deadlifts
Hamstring curls/Romanian deadlifts

To shoulder day add in 1 exercise for rear delt work.

You could also rotate some of the lifts every other week.
For example taking a hammer curl out of back/bicep day and adding in something extra for hammys

I remember trying to fit so many things in when I trained 4x a week. It's a lot easier now that I go almost every day.
 
kevinhy

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You're doing too much fluff work, not enough heavy hitter exercises. At your size, you dont need to spend half of your entire routine doing arm exercises. If you look at EMG studies that examine muscular activation, you'll muscles like the biceps are recruited substantially more in a pull up vs a curl and you get all the back activity along with it.

I would do the following, it is Lyle Mcdonalds "generic bulking routine" and is an excellent beginner-intermediate upper lower bodypart split.

Lower
Squat: 3-4X6-8
SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8
Leg press: 2-3X10-12
Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12
Calf raise: 3-4X6-8
Seated calf: 2-3X10-12

Upper
Flat bench: 3-4X6-8
Row: 3-4X6-8
Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12
Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12
Triceps: 1-2X12-15
Biceps: 1-2X12-15
 
smshannon001

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You're doing too much fluff work, not enough heavy hitter exercises. At your size, you dont need to spend half of your entire routine doing arm exercises. If you look at EMG studies that examine muscular activation, you'll muscles like the biceps are recruited substantially more in a pull up vs a curl and you get all the back activity along with it. I would do the following, it is Lyle Mcdonalds "generic bulking routine" and is an excellent beginner-intermediate upper lower bodypart split. Lower Squat: 3-4X6-8/3? (3-4 sets of 6-8 with a 3? rest) SLDL or leg curl: 3-4X6-8/3? Leg press: 2-3X10-12/2? Another leg curl: 2-3X10-12/2? Calf raise: 3-4X6-8/3? Seated calf: 2-3X10-12/2? Upper Flat bench: 3-4X6-8/3? Row: 3-4X6-8/3? Incline bench or shoulder press: 2-3X10-12/2? Pulldown/chin: 2-3X10-12/2? Triceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5? Biceps: 1-2X12-15/1.5?
The only issue I have is with the rest periods. The OP said he only has 45mins but if he does the minimum amount of sets you recommended he has
Squat 9min
Sldl 9min
Leg press 4min
Leg curl 4min
Calf raise 9min
Seated calf 4min

39min of rest out of a 45min workout seems like a lot to me.
 
kevinhy

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The only issue I have is with the rest periods. The OP said he only has 45mins but if he does the minimum amount of sets you recommended he has
Squat 9min
Sldl 9min
Leg press 4min
Leg curl 4min
Calf raise 9min
Seated calf 4min

39min of rest out of a 45min workout seems like a lot to me.
I'm more so recommending the exercises, I didnt mean follow the protocol verbatim. If you cant get that workout done in 45min you're making friends at the gym, not gains.

Edited to remove rest periods. Sets x reps are generalizations, but good ones considering you're limiting direct arm work to 1-2 sets and focusing on the heavy hitter exercises and using rep ranges that will maximally stimulate all muscle fibers.
 
asooneyeonig

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here is a KISS approach. get on a proven program. learn all you can about why that proven program works. give it 6-12 months. if you dont like it, find another proven program and learn all about that one and why it works.

i would recommend something like 5/3/1 with high rep accessory work or westside for skinny bastards. in fact, whichever one you choose to do, still read up and learn them both. then try and figure out why they are different and yet how they are the same. look at the primary movements and the accessory work and learn why they work.
 
kevinhy

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i would recommend something like 5/3/1.
One big mistake I see often, is beginners who dont have NEARLY enough maximal strength attempt 5/3/1 as outlined. The program is so slow and has so much deloading that a beginner will never truly test themselves with it, it just takes too long to ramp up into the higher weights and its boring. I'm pretty sure Jim has written about this before.
 
asooneyeonig

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he has. he also said suck it lol. do it as written.

it can work for beginners. just like advanced lifters it helps to build a platform. lifting is a marathon not a sprint. so take those high reps and get the body prepared for maximal effort lifts instead of jumping into them and getting hurt. a newb is less likely to get hurt maxing out reps at a lighter weight than maxing out with a heavier weight.

strongman competitors have proven that doing sets of 10 or even 15 can make you one of the strongest around. there are some strongman competitors at my gym. 2 of them are going to nationals. they rep out what most people at the same body weight do for singles. the point is, higher reps can still build bulk and strength. so it is ok. there is a reason why a proven program is just that, a proven program. and as jim has written, if you don't believe in the program then it won't work for you. you have to believe as well as work hard. that is why some people don't do well on 5/3/1. they dont believe it will work and therefore half ass it. that is not what i am saying happened to you, just giving and example that even a proven program may not work 100% of the time. it is simple, you dont work, it doesnt work.
 
kevinhy

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he has. he also said suck it lol. do it as written.

it can work for beginners. just like advanced lifters it helps to build a platform. lifting is a marathon not a sprint. so take those high reps and get the body prepared for maximal effort lifts instead of jumping into them and getting hurt. a newb is less likely to get hurt maxing out reps at a lighter weight than maxing out with a heavier weight.

strongman competitors have proven that doing sets of 10 or even 15 can make you one of the strongest around. there are some strongman competitors at my gym. 2 of them are going to nationals. they rep out what most people at the same body weight do for singles. the point is, higher reps can still build bulk and strength. so it is ok. there is a reason why a proven program is just that, a proven program. and as jim has written, if you don't believe in the program then it won't work for you. you have to believe as well as work hard. that is why some people don't do well on 5/3/1. they dont believe it will work and therefore half ass it. that is not what i am saying happened to you, just giving and example that even a proven program may not work 100% of the time. it is simple, you dont work, it doesnt work.
Not disagreeing with you there, I just think modifications need to be made to the general 5/3/1 to expose the beginner to more work and make it more effective.

Heres exactly what Jim laid out for a beginner:

Monday

Squat – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Bench – 55%x5, 65×5%, 75%x5
Assistance work

Wednesday

Deadlift – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Press – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Assistance work

Friday

Bench – 5/3/1 sets/reps
Squat – 55%x5, 65%x5, 75%x5
Assistance work

Assistance exercises : Chins, dips, back raises, rows, neck work, curls, etc
 

arbliss

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Thanks for all the advice! I like the lyle mcdonald generic bulking, and the modified 5/3/1. I felt like I was more advanced than the 5x5, but maybe I'm not. I wouldn't want to start with an empty bar. Here's my maxes for the big lifts, and maybe you can tell me what I would start at with 5x5 or 5/3/1?

Squat 1RM
225
Bench 1RM
208
Deadlift
309
Overhead Press
116
Barbell Rows
150

I started getting serious with fitness in July 2013. From July 2013-Feb 2013 I did a fitness boot camp, that had lots of weights (squats, deadlifts, trx, dumbell exercises) but was more focused on weight loss than muscle gain. Doing that for the amount of time I did, I did gain some muscle along with losing about 30 pounds. From 192-162. I'm currently at 158 lbs and about 9% body fat at 6'. Not sure if I should focus on size or strength, but I know I should work towards both. Thanks for everyone's comments/advice/help!
 
compudog

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Your program looks fine to me, except for day 3. I would change it to

Deads
Front Squat

Or some other assistance work for legs. IMO deads are a leg exercise.

Also, I would add some rows to your bench day. You should always do rows with your presses. Upright rows on your OHP day is OK, they tend to be a bit light though. With the maxes you listed I would go for dumbbell rows and cable rows or barbell rows, on your press days, really whatever you can load up heavy.
 
HIT4ME

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Day 1 I would drop the lunges. I would probably throw in leg extensions. My setup would be leg extensions, squats, leg presses, then calf raises. But that's just me.

Honestly, I'd be happier doing just squats, leg presses and calf raises than lunges. I just feel lunges aren't all that effective. I like the extensions as a pre-exhaust, especially when learning the squat. It helps to keep you from overloading the bar and pulling the back into it more than you should.

Day 2, I would drop the bench and do Dumbbell flyes, then Incline Dumbbell Presses.

Day 3, I would start with deadlifts, then rows, pull-ups, and barbell curls (hammer curls are a waste).

Day 4, I'd drop the upright rows if you are doing shrugs.

3 sets is plenty for strength and hypertrophy. If you are training at a high intensity to failure, 2 sets may be enough, IMO. Hell, I've seen growth on 1 set to failure and of course we all know how Mentzer felt about that....
 
asooneyeonig

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Day 1 bla, bla

Honestly, I'd be happier doing squats.

Day 2, bla bla

Day 3, bla bla

Day 4, bla bla....
Wow. The broscience is strong with this one.
 
HIT4ME

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Wow. The broscience is strong with this one.
Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned Mentzer I guess. God knows the bros, I mean, guys at your gym going to the nationals know more than he did and that they are WAY more science based then Mentzer was.
 

kisaj

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Wow. The broscience is strong with this one.
That is the biggest issue with all the "created my own routine" threads. So many people that haven't even gone through the tried and true and just throw a bunch of crap together to make it unique.
 

arbliss

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I ended up just going with 5/3/1 triumvirate. I decided to do strength instead of size for a bit. Question that I've gotten conflicting info on, what kind of a calorie surplus is recommended for strength training?
 
Sean1332

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I ended up just going with 5/3/1 triumvirate. I decided to do strength instead of size for a bit. Question that I've gotten conflicting info on, what kind of a calorie surplus is recommended for strength training?
Just because you're training for strength doesn't mean you can't grow muscle. All your assistance work is higher rep anyways. If you don't want to gain weight, eat around maitenance. If want to gain some size, then maybe start out 250-500cal above. If you start getting fat then scale back the calories. It's fairly individual and I don't think it's set in stone for every single person. Just keep things simple.
 

kisaj

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^^^ that.

People like to over complicate things and it isn't necessary. I'm not saying you are, arbliss, but if you ask multiple people they will likely give different answers and confuse the situation.
 

arbliss

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Just because you're training for strength doesn't mean you can't grow muscle. All your assistance work is higher rep anyways. If you don't want to gain weight, eat around maitenance. If want to gain some size, then maybe start out 250-500cal above. If you start getting fat then scale back the calories. It's fairly individual and I don't think it's set in stone for every single person. Just keep things simple.
^^^ that.

People like to over complicate things and it isn't necessary. I'm not saying you are, arbliss, but if you ask multiple people they will likely give different answers and confuse the situation.
Thank you both. That is a common issue I have, overcomplicating things. I'm wanting some size too, so I'm currently doing a 500 calorie surplus. I will continue that and monitor fat gain. 1 more question, same surplus on non training days and during the deload week?
 
Sean1332

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The only difference in your deload week and your training week, is that you're Big 3 lifts have decreased intensity and/or volume. I keep assistance work the same.
 

arbliss

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The only difference in your deload week and your training week, is that you're Big 3 lifts have decreased intensity and/or volume. I keep assistance work the same.
Absolutely if you are looking for gains and not recomp. Your off days are equally important.
Great, thank you guys! I'm gonna stick with this template for 1 or 2 cycles, then I may switch to boring but big. Not sure yet. Now to figure out my conditioning since I don't have sleds or prowlers or a hill to sprint up. Today I did stair sprints followed by a barbell complex.
 
Sean1332

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Great, thank you guys! I'm gonna stick with this template for 1 or 2 cycles, then I may switch to boring but big. Not sure yet. Now to figure out my conditioning since I don't have sleds or prowlers or a hill to sprint up. Today I did stair sprints followed by a barbell complex.
BBB meh...form starts to break down with 50 reps of deadlifts/squats. Doing BBB with a Big 3 alternative may be a good idea. I would search "5/3/1 Periodization Bible" for the assistance work.

If you go to Capo's 5/3/1 log, he's run 5/3/1 for well over a year straight and is still PR'ing.
 

arbliss

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BBB meh...form starts to break down with 50 reps of deadlifts/squats. Doing BBB with a Big 3 alternative may be a good idea. I would search "5/3/1 Periodization Bible" for the assistance work.

If you go to Capo's 5/3/1 log, he's run 5/3/1 for well over a year straight and is still PR'ing.
Awesome, I'll check it out
 

kisaj

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Great, thank you guys! I'm gonna stick with this template for 1 or 2 cycles, then I may switch to boring but big. Not sure yet. Now to figure out my conditioning since I don't have sleds or prowlers or a hill to sprint up. Today I did stair sprints followed by a barbell complex.
I'm in love with rest/pause this go around. I have always had great gains in size and strength, but this one is treating me right.
 
asooneyeonig

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Sorry, I shouldn't have mentioned Mentzer I guess. God knows the bros, I mean, guys at your gym going to the nationals know more than he did and that they are WAY more science based then Mentzer was.
thank you for proving my point. fyi, mentzer had nothing to do with my response.
 
jaces

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Thank you both. That is a common issue I have, overcomplicating things. I'm wanting some size too, so I'm currently doing a 500 calorie surplus. I will continue that and monitor fat gain. 1 more question, same surplus on non training days and during the deload week?
Yes , I would just eat less carbs and mre fat/protein on those days
 

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