best technique for gaining size

[pistol345]

Hey guys,
Been training hard for a few years now and have made great progress. But in the last year, I've made basically no gains.
I'm planning to start my bulk in October and I'm looking to put on a good 20 lbs within 4 months. I have a very fast metabolism so I'm going to have to eat over 5K calories per day to gain weight. I'm thinking I may need to change up my training routine to maximize gains.
I usually have a 4 day split with: back/shoulders, chest/calves, legs, arms. Not doing any cardio at the moment.
Depending on the body part, I usually do about 3-4 exercises for a total of 9-12 (15 for legs) sets, with 8-12 reps each set.
I've looked at German Volume training and am considering trying that. What do you think I should do?

Current stats:
6'3"
180 lbs

Squat max: 300
Bench max: 225
Deadlift max: 315

 

[carpee]

there is no "best technique" and 20 lbs in 4 months on a guy with a fast metabolism is going to be a stretch...just being realistic.

with that said, GVT is going require even more calories.

do you ever get out of the 8-12 rep range?

here are some alternatives:
5x5, 6x4, or even taking a weight you can only do for 6 strict reps and then taking as many sets as needed to reach 30 reps.

I periodize so that some days are heavier, some days are higher Time Under Tension, and others are a hybrid of the two, like 6x4's

 

[pistol345]

Right. I've put on weight that fast before, but I was eating like a madman. I'm shooting to hit 200lbs, but I'd be happy to put on 10lbs. Yea, I usually do periodization and work my way down to a new maxout, but it never works out right. I either injured myself or cut calories on a cut and lost strength. I just got back in the higher rep ranges.
I guess I could benefit from switching it up week to week maybe. Constantly changing the workload on my muscles.
Thanks for the advice man

 

[carpee]

that's what I would suggest. train high volume for a week or two, then push beyond failure, then back off for a bit, and start over. periods of high intensity/lower volume like HIT or DC type training are beneficial as well. throughout all the changes just pay attention to how you're feeling...if your CNS is fatigued, you'll need more recovery time

 

[Rodja]

Saying you use periodization is too ambiguous as there are dozens and dozens of methods. That being said, you do need to get stronger as your numbers are pretty low. A true run of something like 5/3/1 with the appropriate assistance work will get you there.

 

[pistol345]

cool. thanks guys. By periodization, I mean I'll do 10-12 reps for 3 weeks, 8-10 for 3 weeks, 6-8 for 3 weeks, 3-5 for 3 weeks, then maybe 2-3 for a couple weeks, then a new max out. I actually really like that routine. I'm hoping that my training isn't flawed and that maybe I just haven't been eating enough. I'm pretty happy with my progress so far, but I'd like to have a bit more size. You think my current routine is okay and I should eat more?

 

[Lifting_Dad]

cool. thanks guys. By periodization, I mean I'll do 10-12 reps for 3 weeks, 8-10 for 3 weeks, 6-8 for 3 weeks, 3-5 for 3 weeks, then maybe 2-3 for a couple weeks, then a new max out. I actually really like that routine. I'm hoping that my training isn't flawed and that maybe I just haven't been eating enough. I'm pretty happy with my progress so far, but I'd like to have a bit more size. You think my current routine is okay and I should eat more?

Make sure the volume in the early portion does not extremely outdo the volume of the later portion. Essentially your total volume should be increasing as you progress through a mesocycle/microcycle (depending on how you've programmed your next several months).
so, if you are doing 3 sets of 10-12 reps for 3 weeks, and adding weight each week. When you bump up to a higher intensity and lower reps, you need to make sure the volume is increasing as well.
3 x 10-12 means 30-36 reps for that muscle/exercise.
By hitting 8-10 reps, you'd want to hit 4 sets (ideally) to ensure volume increases.
You could do 3 sets, followed by 1 dropset after your third set as well.
Then, adding an additional set as you move into the 6-8 range (5 total sets).

And so on. Any questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]
I'd be happy to look over your program.

 

[Rodja]

cool. thanks guys. By periodization, I mean I'll do 10-12 reps for 3 weeks, 8-10 for 3 weeks, 6-8 for 3 weeks, 3-5 for 3 weeks, then maybe 2-3 for a couple weeks, then a new max out. I actually really like that routine. I'm hoping that my training isn't flawed and that maybe I just haven't been eating enough. I'm pretty happy with my progress so far, but I'd like to have a bit more size. You think my current routine is okay and I should eat more?

That still only tells a small part of the story. Total volume, frequency, cadence, assistance lift selection, and, most importantly, technique.

 

[pistol345]

Make sure the volume in the early portion does not extremely outdo the volume of the later portion. Essentially your total volume should be increasing as you progress through a mesocycle/microcycle (depending on how you've programmed your next several months).
so, if you are doing 3 sets of 10-12 reps for 3 weeks, and adding weight each week. When you bump up to a higher intensity and lower reps, you need to make sure the volume is increasing as well.
3 x 10-12 means 30-36 reps for that muscle/exercise.
By hitting 8-10 reps, you'd want to hit 4 sets (ideally) to ensure volume increases.
You could do 3 sets, followed by 1 dropset after your third set as well.
Then, adding an additional set as you move into the 6-8 range (5 total sets).

And so on. Any questions, feel free to email me at [email protected]
I'd be happy to look over your program.

Oh okay. This could be where I've been going wrong. I've always heard that you should reduce the volume as your reps decrease because you're lifting more weight. So when I get down to 3-5 heavy reps, I usually only do like 9 sets, where I probably did 15 sets of 10-12 reps.

 

[Rodja]

Oh okay. This could be where I've been going wrong. I've always heard that you should reduce the volume as your reps decrease because you're lifting more weight. So when I get down to 3-5 heavy reps, I usually only do like 9 sets, where I probably did 15 sets of 10-12 reps.

He's completely wrong that's why. When you increase intensity, you MUST lower the amount of total volume. You cannot have the same amount of volume at 90% that you can at 70% and vice versa.

 

[Lifting_Dad]

Oh okay. This could be where I've been going wrong. I've always heard that you should reduce the volume as your reps decrease because you're lifting more weight. So when I get down to 3-5 heavy reps, I usually only do like 9 sets, where I probably did 15 sets of 10-12 reps.

volume should increase.
as Rodja said, there are many factors that come into play with a program.

you get a ton of volume in with lower intensity lifts.
say you lift 200lbs for 10 reps. that's 2000lbs.
now lets say you want to do triples with 300lbs, you now have to do 2 sets or more to be close to the same volume from 1 submax set of 10.
300x3=900lbs.

 

[pistol345]

volume should increase.
as Rodja said, there are many factors that come into play with a program.

you get a ton of volume in with lower intensity lifts.
say you lift 200lbs for 10 reps. that's 2000lbs.
now lets say you want to do triples with 300lbs, you now have to do 2 sets or more to be close to the same volume from 1 submax set of 10.
300x3=900lbs.

Yea, that makes sense to me. That way you've lifted about the same amount of weight no matter at the end of the workout. I'll have to look into this some more. I may end up emailing you. Thanks for the help

 

[Rodja]

Yea, that makes sense to me. That way you've lifted about the same amount of weight no matter at the end of the workout. I'll have to look into this some more. I may end up emailing you. Thanks for the help

Total weight lifted =/ volume. It's not that black and white as the RPE plays a huge factor in progress and CNS fatigue. This information is decades old and is at the heart of Prilepin's chart.

 

[pistol345]

Total weight lifted =/ volume. It's not that black and white as the RPE plays a huge factor in progress and CNS fatigue. This information is decades old and is at the heart of Prilepin's chart.

Okay. I just looked up Prilepin's Chart. Most of them only discuss ranges below 7 reps, but I found one that discusses higher rep ranges. http://powerathletehq.com/2014/07/28/prilepins-chart/ . going by this chart, is that the total amount of sets I should do per bodypart, or per workout? I'm wondering how to apply that to days where I have more than one body part worked. If I'm doing 6-10 reps per set, and if I do back/ shoulders, should I do 15 sets of back and 15 sets of shoulders? because that seems like a lot. I normally do about 9 sets of each now, although some exercises work both to a degree

 

[Rodja]

Okay. I just looked up Prilepin's Chart. Most of them only discuss ranges below 7 reps, but I found one that discusses higher rep ranges. http://powerathletehq.com/2014/07/28/prilepins-chart/ . going by this chart, is that the total amount of sets I should do per bodypart, or per workout? I'm wondering how to apply that to days where I have more than one body part worked. If I'm doing 6-10 reps per set, and if I do back/ shoulders, should I do 15 sets of back and 15 sets of shoulders? because that seems like a lot. I normally do about 9 sets of each now, although some exercises work both to a degree

The application of Prilepin's chart should be to primary lift of the day and not so much single joint or assistance lifts. Focusing on the primary lift and filling in the appropriate assistance is how you design a solid template along with the appropriate frequency. Only within BB'ing circles is it common to directly train a muscle once per week.

 

[Lifting_Dad]

The application of Prilepin's chart should be to primary lift of the day and not so much single joint or assistance lifts. Focusing on the primary lift and filling in the appropriate assistance is how you design a solid template along with the appropriate frequency. Only within BB'ing circles is it common to directly train a muscle once per week.

I should've been clear that I was referring to the main lift or lifts in a given workout.
I do like RPE though it's often up to the user to decipher the difference between an 8 and a 9. Even though 1RM approximations are provided with RPE.

 

[pistol345]

Just an update. I've been doing the 5/3/1 for like 4-5 months now and I'm starting to set some PRs. My workouts were pretty easy for the first couple months, but they're starting to get pretty tough. If I can't hit the reps I'm supposed to... I should do 90% of my current max and start again from there, right?

 

[Rodja]

Just an update. I've been doing the 5/3/1 for like 4-5 months now and I'm starting to set some PRs. My workouts were pretty easy for the first couple months, but they're starting to get pretty tough. If I can't hit the reps I'm supposed to... I should do 90% of my current max and start again from there, right?

How often are you deloading?

 

[pistol345]

I'm supposed to do it once per month, but I was traveling over the holidays. I might miss the whole week 2, then do that week's workouts the next week, then week 3's workouts in place of week 4. Instead of a deload, I would just do week 1 of the next cycle. Keeps me on track that way. I'll deload next week tho

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Progressive overload on basic, compound movements with heavy weights have always developed mass quicker than anything else for me. This type of movments recruit more muscle than isolation and put far more stress on your body. I make sure my weights and or reps climb every session, can't go wrong with that approach. Not fancy but it works! I Also take a week or two and switch to only callistetics and that give me a break and switches up the stimulus before I hit it hard again. Good luck bro

 

[pistol345]

Also, I'm about to start my 3 month cut. Think I should stick with the 5/3/1 BBB routine?

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Also, I'm about to start my 3 month cut. Think I should stick with the 5/3/1 BBB routine?

I personally like to do more volume on a cut, or pyramid set strting with high reps low weights progrssing to low reps high weights

 

[Rodja]

I'm not a fan of BBB as is. I much prefer the periodization bible for assistance work.

 

[pistol345]

I'll have to look into it more. Thanks for the help

 

[Lifting_Dad]

Also, I'm about to start my 3 month cut. Think I should stick with the 5/3/1 BBB routine?

Do you have a pre-determined periodization plan? Something you've already laid out? If so, stick with that.
Otherwise, people do train in blocks, however the transitions shouldn't be drastic.
If you are currently doing 5/3/1, you could move to a 7/5/3 during your cut.
I wouldn't add in a ton of volume to your program especially if you are adding in cardio.
Add in one stimulus or the other, then progress from there.

 

[pistol345]

Do you have a pre-determined periodization plan? Something you've already laid out? If so, stick with that.
Otherwise, people do train in blocks, however the transitions shouldn't be drastic.
If you are currently doing 5/3/1, you could move to a 7/5/3 during your cut.
I wouldn't add in a ton of volume to your program especially if you are adding in cardio.
Add in one stimulus or the other, then progress from there.

Yea. I'll probably just stick my current plan and keep trying to gain strength. I imagine on fewer calories I may tire occasionally during accessory work, but I'll just have to fight through it. I'm going to start with a little cardio and keep cals the same. Just take it on a week to week basis

 

[pistol345]

Just started a log for my cut if you guys want to keep up with it. http://anabolicminds.com/forum/weight-loss/267052-pistol-gets-shredded.html#post4900530

 

[jerisonross]

The key to gaining weight is simple...you have to eat more. The pro bodybuilders eat more thsn you can imagine... Too many people don't realize the hardest part of being fit is the diet! Up your calorie intake slowly. Weekly. You will see progress

 

[pistol345]

The key to gaining weight is simple...you have to eat more. The pro bodybuilders eat more thsn you can imagine... Too many people don't realize the hardest part of being fit is the diet! Up your calorie intake slowly. Weekly. You will see progress

Yea, I actually put on 27 lbs since this post and you are correct. Haha

 

[EMPIREMIND]

Yea, I actually put on 27 lbs since this post and you are correct. Haha

U should post some pics. Thats a huge mass gain. Your doing your thing!

 

[pistol345]

I can't lie... a lot of that was fat, but my chest really filled out. Lifts went up too