Full body vs split training, which do you prefer?

[ChrisG2]

I've been doing split training since I started, but full body seems kind of interesting...thoughts? My only concern seems thats 2-3 exercises for body part doesn't seem very optimal compared to my hour + workouts that I'm used to specializing to a certain muscle group.

 

[kisaj]

I prefer a split for training and a full body for an accessory or "extra" day. Full body is gteat , but too difficult to see gains in strength, size, or endurance when trained in a consistent basis.

 

[jbryand101b]

I've been doing split training since I started, but full body seems kind of interesting...thoughts? My only concern seems thats 2-3 exercises for body part doesn't seem very optimal compared to my hour + workouts that I'm used to specializing to a certain muscle group.

I mix them both in.

When I do full body, it's a circuit.

I go back and forth.

Read up on the " built for bad" training routine on tnation.

 

[PaulBlack]

This is just my opinion and how I understand it but, full body works perhaps better, for a few big compound moves and overall mass and strength gains.

ie: Day 1 Squats, BP's, Rows
Day 2 Deads, OHP's, arms/grip work

You're covering the big 5 compound moves and thus the largest mass of the entire body.
And maybe putting great focus on just one lift in that session say, waving that focus and intensity thru the weeks to keep gains high in say 3 or so big lifts.

If you are going to try and do a BBing type set up with more sets, reps, exercises and iso exercises too, it is most likely going to be too much or you are not going to put in the best effort on a big move, because you have to save energy to make it thru all the different exercises and volume. Which is IMO, why BB'ers started the splits in the first place a long time ago.

2-3 exercises covering 80%-90% of the body or a type of abbreviated style 2x pe week set up, can work well to increase overall strength/mass (especially if one couples it with big eating) in the large body areas, and especially if the effort on the big stuff like squats, leg pressing, deads, rowing, horz pulling, horz and vertical pressing and work "while on one's feet" to load the spine, is put in and weight is added on a reg weekly/bi weekly basis.

 

[asooneyeonig]

proven programs for the last 100 years use major compound movements for the bulk of the training if not exclusively. that should tell you whether you need or should do splits for the bulk of your training. you can split by movement though. that still works. isolation work can be beneficial for accessory work but please do NOT major in the minors here and spend 90% of your time worrying over what to do and 90% of your time doing curls to help a major movement.

i like it major proven strength programs do it. train a major movement and try to get it as strong as possible. for accessory work train the weak links on the major movement and work them like how a body builder trains. another option is to train like a strongman, start with strength then drop the weight and do a burnout set.

 

[R1balla]

Many people will say that full body is the best way to go because you are hitting the muscle more than once a week. I prefer higher volume, but I do understand that logic. For me, I do something like this (although I rotate through training routines throughout the year).

Monday - Arms - with 3 sets of chest and 3 sets of back (compound lifts)
Tues - Legs
Wed - OFF
Thurs - Chest/ 3 sets of triceps
Friday - Back/ 3 sets of biceps

Weekend - OFF

 

[ChrisG2]

What if I'm not able to take a day off between each workout and I did full body, would that be bad to do even if nutrition is in check and I get adequate protein intake? Like for example:
Monday: full body
Tuesday: full body
Wednesday: off
Thursday: full body
Would this be fine or would it be over training? Should I just do a split?

 

[R1balla]

What if I'm not able to take a day off between each workout and I did full body, would that be bad to do even if nutrition is in check and I get adequate protein intake? Like for example:
Monday: full body
Tuesday: full body
Wednesday: off
Thursday: full body
Would this be fine or would it be over training? Should I just do a split?

I would never do that. At least do upper body one day then lower body the next to give the part you trained a rest. you grow when you rest. it is very important.

what days are you able to workout and what are your goals?

 

[ChrisG2]

I don't really have too many goals in regards to weight I want to lift but more of to get the physique I've always wanted. I am in the process of cutting (currently down 25lbs with little to no muscle loss at all!) in regards to what days I'm able to workout, it fluctuates based on my schedule and what I've got going on but I am able to squeeze in a solid 3-4 days a week minimum

 

[ChrisG2]

Btw, I appreciate the reps given!

 

[R1balla]

I don't really have too many goals in regards to weight I want to lift but more of to get the physique I've always wanted. I am in the process of cutting (currently down 25lbs with little to no muscle loss at all!) in regards to what days I'm able to workout, it fluctuates based on my schedule and what I've got going on but I am able to squeeze in a solid 3-4 days a week minimum

If you are just wanting pure strength gains, I would HIGHLY consider 5x5 training.

 

[ChrisG2]

What is the difference in strength and mass? Could I do 5x5 2 days in a row if I had to? Also, isn't 5x5 a beginner plan? I've been lifting for a good 6 months so I don't consider myself too much of a beginner

 

[R1balla]

What is the difference in strength and mass? Could I do 5x5 2 days in a row if I had to? Also, isn't 5x5 a beginner plan? I've been lifting for a good 6 months so I don't consider myself too much of a beginner

It is a good program for beginners, but many experienced lifters use 5x5 for strength gains. And no hard feelings, but at 6 months, you are still a beginner. 5x5 is a 3-day/week routine. Either m/w/f or t/th/s. But trust me, you will need the rest.

Mass refers to body size. That is diet dependent. Strength is (for example) bench pressing more weight. But if your diet is on par for gaining, combining with a program like 5x5, mass will come.

 

[ChrisG2]

Alright I'll check it out, thanks for the help

 

[R1balla]

Alright I'll check it out, thanks for the help

In the meantime, start studying on DC training. It seriously something you have to study before you start. Usually, you should have about 2 years training experience to understand your body before starting DC training, so this gives you plenty of time. Read up on it on multiple websites. Once you have, post questions about it on here. It is a GREAT training routine. VERY different but my favorite routine hands down.

 

[kisaj]

Agreed.

I cannot recommend DC or rest/pause routines enough. They are, IMO, the very best of strength and mass routines.

 

[asooneyeonig]

Agreed.

I cannot recommend DC or rest/pause routines enough. They are, IMO, the very best of strength and mass routines.

they are good, but NOT for beginners.

OP, you can do full body workouts everyday. you just need to make sure to wave the volume and intensity so your body can handle the frequency. to use an example, the texas method has 3 full body workouts. a volume day, a light recovery/skill day, and a max effort day. those are done every week. the key to its success IMO is the second day. moving heavy weight is not just about strength but also a skill. that second day helps you to fine tune the skill with more repetitions and the low intensity and low volume helps speed up recovery.

 

[R1balla]

they are good, but NOT for beginners.

OP, you can do full body workouts everyday. you just need to make sure to wave the volume and intensity so your body can handle the frequency. to use an example, the texas method has 3 full body workouts. a volume day, a light recovery/skill day, and a max effort day. those are done every week. the key to its success IMO is the second day. moving heavy weight is not just about strength but also a skill. that second day helps you to fine tune the skill with more repetitions and the low intensity and low volume helps speed up recovery.

exactly. thats why i said research and learn for another year.

I just think there are better options than full body back to back days.

 

[kisaj]

they are good, but NOT for beginners.

I didn't see anywhere that it was mentioned about him being a beginner. I know people that have run splits for many years, so I didn't make the assumption.

 

[R1balla]

I didn't see anywhere that it was mentioned about him being a beginner. I know people that have run splits for many years, so I didn't make the assumption.

I said he's been training for 6 months

 

[kisaj]

Weird, I missed the posts before your suggestion of DC today. No idea what happened.

 

[R1balla]

Weird, I missed the posts before your suggestion of DC today. No idea what happened.

Hahaha

 

[ChrisG2]

Looked into the 5x5 and it seemed so simple to the point that it wouldn't be effective? I usually do an hour long split and hang in just fine so dropping to just 5 lifts in a workout seems like less than I could potentially do.

 

[kisaj]

You need to get the more is better mind set out. More focused, efficient, with intensity is better. 5 x 5 is one of the most effective routines out there for building a solid foundation of mass and strength. Clear your mind, follow a proven routine, and just see for yourself.

 

[Battossi]

I've been doing split training since I started, but full body seems kind of interesting...thoughts? My only concern seems thats 2-3 exercises for body part doesn't seem very optimal compared to my hour + workouts that I'm used to specializing to a certain muscle group.

Volume is the one thing that must be manipulated to grow and getting sufficient volume with sufficient recovery with full body more than 2x a week is pretty hard.

Upper lower would probably be more beneficial in the long run. I prefer splits for more overall tonnage.

 

[R1balla]

Looked into the 5x5 and it seemed so simple to the point that it wouldn't be effective? I usually do an hour long split and hang in just fine so dropping to just 5 lifts in a workout seems like less than I could potentially do.

No. It's very very effective if done right. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong, but you log every lift and go up 5-10 pounds a week. Do that for 6 weeks and you will see huge strength gains

 

[kisaj]

That is correct, and while it will be easier in the beginning stages, adding weight each time is the key. When I used to run it, I'd keep rest to about 60 sec, a bit longer than rest/pause, but we are talking more volume in working weight too. It kicks your butt.

 

[ChrisG2]

This is what I'm looking at and you guys think that one exercise for a primary part is enough? (well it wouldn't let me post the link, but if you google 5x5 training and its on bodybuilding.com) It just doesn't seem to make sense to me compared to what I'm used to. I do all of these movements in my workouts and those exercises alone just don't seem to be adequate, I'm not trying to sound like a hard ass or anything but after 6 months of doing what I do, it just doesn't seem like it would even compare...

 

[kisaj]

You have people with 20 years of experience giving you advice and you only want to hear one thing. What do you want from us?

 

[Oscar]

You have people with 20 years of experience giving you advice and you only want to hear one thing. What do you want from us?

Justification for sh1tty programing

 

[ChrisG2]

I'm just wanting to understand the logic in the program, I'm not starting an argument here. It just logically makes no sense to me that I should blindly follow a program without knowing the reason behind it.

 

[R1balla]

I'm just wanting to understand the logic in the program, I'm not starting an argument here. It just logically makes no sense to me that I should blindly follow a program without knowing the reason behind it.

You aren't doing it once a week though. Think about it. Let's use chest for example. My typical routine includes 12 sets of chest. If I'm on cycle or on natty cycle, that will increase but all natural, no supps, it's 12 sets for chest. For 5x5, the chest is 5 sets twice a week on heavy weight and compound lifts only. That's 10 sets a week on heavy friggin weight. This program isn't something to always stay on, but I use it to break plateaus about twice a year.

I'm a high volume guy as well, trust me. Right now I'm doing about 18 sets each muscle group. But I change it up all the time. Never go past 12 weeks on a routine for me.

That being said, I don't follow the standard 5x5. I know my body. For the first 2 weeks I stay standard but then I usually add accessory work to it. Maybe 1 additional exercise (4 sets) each muscle group.

 

[R1balla]

I'm just wanting to understand the logic in the program, I'm not starting an argument here. It just logically makes no sense to me that I should blindly follow a program without knowing the reason behind it.

There are also many logs on it on various forums including this one and many people suggesting it for strength on many other forums. It's not just us.

 

[ChrisG2]

While that is true, you are only hitting chest from that one angle correct? Only from the flat bench press angle which makes you miss out on tons of other exercises such as incline bench or decline. You don't think it would be best to take the concept of 5x5 but throw in other compound lifts that this program leaves out?

 

[Battossi]

While that is true, you are only hitting chest from that one angle correct? Only from the flat bench press angle which makes you miss out on tons of other exercises such as incline bench or decline. You don't think it would be best to take the concept of 5x5 but throw in other compound lifts that this program leaves out?

If you are doing flat bench there is no need to do decline unless prefered.

5x5 is designed to build strength primarily. However if you're following the typical bro bodybuilding 5x5 that deviates from the powerlifter 5x5 then your looking at big numbers that don't quite measure up to other programs that involve periodization. It's all personal preference . The 80s had it right. Try things and find your niche!

 

[R1balla]

While that is true, you are only hitting chest from that one angle correct? Only from the flat bench press angle which makes you miss out on tons of other exercises such as incline bench or decline. You don't think it would be best to take the concept of 5x5 but throw in other compound lifts that this program leaves out?

The 5x5 I have done is flat and incline. And you need to get out of your head volume and angles and crap. You said you want strength right? This is for strength. Not body building

 

[PaulBlack]

Looked into the 5x5 and it seemed so simple to the point that it wouldn't be effective? I usually do an hour long split and hang in just fine so dropping to just 5 lifts in a workout seems like less than I could potentially do.

It think this is where simple, gets confused with hard work and effort.
I think the caveat is "loads" used. Compound exercises ie: squats, leg pressing, deadlifts, rowing/pulling, OHP and BP's will have the lifter using the heaviest loads by leverages and by doing that, enlisting the most mass, strength and then having the body's systems adapt to those heavy loads by growing to complete the progressively heavier (as the months go on) reps/sets. Using other exercises by moving outward or to iso work, from the big major body movers, will only have you using less overall loads because the leverages get worse.
There is nothing wrong with doing some other work "after the big stuff", but from my experiences, more exercises was never necessarily better.
It is the quality of the work, not the quantity of differing stuff used. And many times it is much easier, especially for the novice, to focus hard on just a handful of big things.

 

[ChrisG2]

Alright I'll give it a shot, do you guys have a link to the 5x5 you are thinking of?

 

[pmdied]

I ran 5x5 for 8 weeks, ending about two weeks ago. If you use enough weight I can tell you its very effective and putting on size and strength. I've gotten a few comments recently about size gain so I can tell you it works. Its simple but don't let that fool you; I added 40 pounds to my squat by the time I was done and noticed significant changes to my arms, chest, back and legs.

 

[R1balla]

Alright I'll give it a shot, do you guys have a link to the 5x5 you are thinking of?

I'll try to post one when I get home

 

[pmdied]

I'll try to post one when I get home

Google StrongLifts 5x5. That's the one I followed. Was brutal but effective.

 

[R1balla]

In 2008 when I was on cycle I ran 5x5 from a website that had an attached excel spread sheet that formulated what you should lift every time based on your max. It developed all of it for you, you print it out and follow it as best as you can.