German volume training.

[Jackedjack]

What do the AM members think of this type of training. Any experiences?

 

[IFPAProJamesP]

Overall I think GVT training is a highly effective training system in that it recruits and targets a large grouping of motor units which is conducive for muscular hypertrophy. I routinely use this training system myself and with my clients. Listed below is a modified split that I like to employ:
Day1
Deadlifts 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Chest Press Movement10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day2
Delt Pres Movement 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Barbell Curls 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day3
Squats 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Dips 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)

Day 4 OFF

Day 5-7 I do a modified version of Texas Method and or 5x5 which are very similar programs with a rest day inserted between each session. I then take 1-3 days off at the end of the training cycle and repeat. I have found that breaking up the GVT split with some heavier training days to yield greater overall strength gains.

 

[Jackedjack]

Overall I think GVT training is a highly effective training system in that it recruits and targets a large grouping of motor units which is conducive for muscular hypertrophy. I routinely use this training system myself and with my clients. Listed below is a modified split that I like to employ: Day1 Deadlifts 10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Chest Press Movement10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Day2 Delt Pres Movement 10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Barbell Curls 10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Day3 Squats 10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Dips 10x10 (60-80 sec's rest between sets) Day 4 OFF Day 5-7 I do a modified version of Texas Method and or 5x5 which are very similar programs with a rest day inserted between each session. I then take 1-3 days off at the end of the training cycle and repeat. I have found that breaking up the GVT split with some heavier training days to yield greater overall strength gains.

Interesting, I'm about to do a cycle of ostarine and epi and want to employ a high volume type of training.

 

[IFPAProJamesP]

Give the split a try, it will definetly yeild some solid strength gains. Let me know how the training goes.

 

[IronTitan41]

Overall I think GVT training is a highly effective training system in that it recruits and targets a large grouping of motor units which is conducive for muscular hypertrophy. I routinely use this training system myself and with my clients. Listed below is a modified split that I like to employ:
Day1
Deadlifts 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Chest Press Movement10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day2
Delt Pres Movement 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Barbell Curls 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day3
Squats 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Dips 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)

Day 4 OFF

Day 5-7 I do a modified version of Texas Method and or 5x5 which are very similar programs with a rest day inserted between each session. I then take 1-3 days off at the end of the training cycle and repeat. I have found that breaking up the GVT split with some heavier training days to yield greater overall strength gains.

might have to give this a try!

 

[kisaj]

I used to work it in, but it really was detrimental to strength development and I didn't like needing to start over after each run. It is pretty good for adding mass as any routine working in that rep/set scheme will aid, but I found it too taxing on the joints eventually.

In general, those that are enhanced will really shine in a routine like this. Others will really need to rely on proper rest and strict diet as this starts to wear on you after week 3-4.

 

[Dma378]

I am also about to begin an Ostarine/Ep1c cycle and was considering using GVT to change things up while on. I like the looks of the above routine. Would it be too much to add a pull ups and triceps 10x10 day? Or could those movements be added to any of the days already stated?

 

[Jackedjack]

I am also about to begin an Ostarine/Ep1c cycle and was considering using GVT to change things up while on. I like the looks of the above routine. Would it be too much to add a pull ups and triceps 10x10 day? Or could those movements be added to any of the days already stated?

If you do it I'll do it to see how it works. I have been wanting to change my routine for a while.

 

[Dma378]

If you do it I'll do it to see how it works. I have been wanting to change my routine for a while.

Deal. So here's my situation. I would need a couple days if rest to break my current routine and prepare for this "fresh". My Ep1c is out for delivery today. I already have the Ostar1ne. Going out of town for Labor Day next weekend so off from the gym for 3 days. Perfect to come back and start this routine. Going to only run the Ep1c until then and then will add the Osta. Let's do it.

 

[Jackedjack]

Deal. So here's my situation. I would need a couple days if rest to break my current routine and prepare for this "fresh". My Ep1c is out for delivery today. I already have the Ostar1ne. Going out of town for Labor Day next weekend so off from the gym for 3 days. Perfect to come back and start this routine. Going to only run the Ep1c until then and then will add the Osta. Let's do it.

Okay I will take the weekend for rest days and start Monday. Can't wait to see the gains!

 

[Dma378]

Looking back at that routine I see the 10x10 of dips, so that gets the triceps in there. I feel like I would need to definitely add a rowing/pulling movement. Pull ups or Pendlay Rows. Probably add it to the Curls day, just so not blasting bi's 2 consecutive days. I wouldn't want to take as much time off in the days after, especially not while on cycle. I would probably hit those 3 workouts, rest, then 2 days in a row of accessory work for all muscle groups, rest day, then start over. So 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off.

 

[Dma378]

Okay I will take the weekend for rest days and start Monday. Can't wait to see the gains!

Alright, so you'll be a week ahead of me. Stoked!!!

 

[Jackedjack]

Looking back at that routine I see the 10x10 of dips, so that gets the triceps in there. I feel like I would need to definitely add a rowing/pulling movement. Pull ups or Pendlay Rows. Probably add it to the Curls day, just so not blasting bi's 2 consecutive days. I wouldn't want to take as much time off in the days after, especially not while on cycle. I would probably hit those 3 workouts, rest, then 2 days in a row of accessory work for all muscle groups, rest day, then start over. So 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off.

I like that, I'm a fan of reverse grip bent over rows. And for the rest, I was never a fan of it

 

[Jackedjack]

Looking back at that routine I see the 10x10 of dips, so that gets the triceps in there. I feel like I would need to definitely add a rowing/pulling movement. Pull ups or Pendlay Rows. Probably add it to the Curls day, just so not blasting bi's 2 consecutive days. I wouldn't want to take as much time off in the days after, especially not while on cycle. I would probably hit those 3 workouts, rest, then 2 days in a row of accessory work for all muscle groups, rest day, then start over. So 3 on, 1 off, 2 on, 1 off.

What were you thinking for accessory days. Heavy weight low volume? Or continue the high volume trend?

 

[Dma378]

What were you thinking for accessory days. Heavy weight low volume? Or continue the high volume trend?

Probably a mid-weight/mid-rep range. I think the high volume days are going to stimulate the growth so a low rep/heavy day would not be needed. I would use those days to get in cable work, dumbbell laterals, leg extension, etc., type of exercises. But maybe every other week do a heavy/low rep couple work outs just to keep the strength in check. This high volume thing will be new to me, so guess I'll just feel it out and do what my body says on those 2 days. I don't think strength will go down at all doing this routine though.

 

[Jackedjack]

Probably a mid-weight/mid-rep range. I think the high volume days are going to stimulate the growth so a low rep/heavy day would not be needed. I would use those days to get in cable work, dumbbell laterals, leg extension, etc., type of exercises. But maybe every other week do a heavy/low rep couple work outs just to keep the strength in check. This high volume thing will be new to me, so guess I'll just feel it out and do what my body says on those 2 days. I don't think strength will go down at all doing this routine though.

after looking into this more, people say your 1rm strength will go down some. I believe that's why he recomended a 5x 5 type program from days 5-7 to keep strength up.

 

[kisaj]

I don't think strength will go down at all doing this routine though.

When you are only working in a high rep/set range with approx 50-60% of 1RM, how do you figure strength would not go down?
It's next to impossible to not come out of GVT weaker than when you went in. Size and endurance will be up, but it is not the best of all worlds. There is a time and place for it.

 

[Jackedjack]

When you are only working in a high rep/set range with approx 50-60% of 1RM, how do you figure strength would not go down?

Do you think that's why he recomended a 5x5 program on days 5-7 instead of rest

 

[kisaj]

I do believe that, but that routine is a bit complicated so I am not sure. It is a made up hybrid that probably works, but can't say for sure. I think if you are going to go that route, stick with a tried and true PHAT type routine that incorporates hypertrophy ranges with strength ranges in the same week and you get to hit body parts twice a week.

...or a rest/pause style that will accomplish big strength gains and build size. It is more focused on strength and endurance, so if it is for only show muscles, then might not be the best route.

 

[Dma378]

When you are only working in a high rep/set range with approx 50-60% of 1RM, how do you figure strength would not go down?
It's next to impossible to not come out of GVT weaker than when you went in. Size and endurance will be up, but it is not the best of all worlds. There is a time and place for it.

Just threw it out there. My knowledge on this whole thing is rudimentary. I like the concept, have read on it minimally at this point, but I'm sure I would have gathered that information, like right now, just gathered it. I guess I considered 5x5 mid-weight/mid-rep range. I usually workout 6-8 rep range x 4-5 sets.

 

[kisaj]

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying one thing is right or wrong, but it really would depend on goals.

Here is my take on this regarding your plan to run (-)-epi. Epi is the king of building strength endurance right now for natural substances and it is helping to add reps to 1RM and also allowing to bust through old PRs. Why not take advantage of that endurance aspect and try to move to another level as opposed to just doing 10x10 and not seeing # gains. Just a thought.

I am on my 3rd Follidrone run and absolutely on another level.

 

[Jackedjack]

I do believe that, but that routine is a bit complicated so I am not sure. It is a made up hybrid that probably works, but can't say for sure. I think if you are going to go that route, stick with a tried and true PHAT type routine that incorporates hypertrophy ranges with strength ranges in the same week and you get to hit body parts twice a week. ...or a rest/pause style that will accomplish big strength gains and build size. It is more focused on strength and endurance, so if it is for only show muscles, then might not be the best route.

PHAT has honestly been less than stellar for me. It is not enough volume per body part for me. 5/3/1 has been much more beneficial to me, but I have run that time and time again and am looking for something new.

 

[Dma378]

I do believe that, but that routine is a bit complicated so I am not sure. It is a made up hybrid that probably works, but can't say for sure. I think if you are going to go that route, stick with a tried and true PHAT type routine that incorporates hypertrophy ranges with strength ranges in the same week and you get to hit body parts twice a week.

...or a rest/pause style that will accomplish big strength gains and build size. It is more focused on strength and endurance, so if it is for only show muscles, then might not be the best route.

I kind of am in it for "show muscles" for the time being. I only plan on doing this for 4-6 weeks as that seems to be the recommended duration. So the goal is to gain some visible results. Strength training would resume immediately after that.

 

[kisaj]

I kind of am in it for "show muscles" for the time being. I only plan on doing this for 4-6 weeks as that seems to be the recommended duration. So the goal is to gain some visible results. Strength training would resume immediately after that.

Sure, then go for it. The reason that is recommended is because it tears you down. It is hard on the body and joints.

 

[Dma378]

And don't get me wrong, I am not saying one thing is right or wrong, but it really would depend on goals.

Here is my take on this regarding your plan to run (-)-epi. Epi is the king of building strength endurance right now for natural substances and it is helping to add reps to 1RM and also allowing to bust through old PRs. Why not take advantage of that endurance aspect and try to move to another level as opposed to just doing 10x10 and not seeing # gains. Just a thought.

I am on my 3rd Follidrone run and absolutely on another level.

That's a good point. Maybe that has me reconsidering what I do on those 2 accessory days. I was just under the impression by what I have read that the days of 10x10 are so taxing on the muscles that they could use a more moderate workout on those days. But I will be "on", and the Osta should help with recovery.

 

[IFPAProJamesP]

The higher volume, lower rest periods, and moderate repetition range of the GVT is highly effective for muscular hypertrophy and its metabolic demands are highly conducive for revving up ones metabolism because moderate rep ranges in training have been proven in study after study to lead to the greatest amount of growth. To quote my coach, friend and colleague, Cliff Wilson : “The reason that this rep range is so effective for building muscle is because it does a little bit a everything. This means that it provides many of the benefits of low rep training combined with the benefits high rep training by allowing for relatively heavy loads to be used while increasing time under tension. The heavy loads allow for myofibrillar protein synthesis to take place which, as discussed, will increase the size of the contractile proteins. The increased time under tension will stimulate sarcoplasmic hypertrophy. Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy is an increase of the sarcoplasm and other non-contractile proteins within muscle cells and is primarily induced by lifting light loads for higher reps. This type of growth, although not typically accompanied by any strength gains, is the primary reason why bodybuilders tend to be more muscular than strength and power athletes.” For this reason I find the cycling between both phases of training with training micro cycle allows me and my clients to get the best of both worlds in terms of hypertrophy and muscular strength adaptations.

 

[IFPAProJamesP]

Looking back at this thread I noticed some discussion about accessory movements. As I tell my clients and students, it all depends on your goals, experience level, etc... At the end of the day it comes down to taking everything you know about training, physiology, personal experience's and formulating a training split conducive towards your goals.

 

[Dma378]

Overall I think GVT training is a highly effective training system in that it recruits and targets a large grouping of motor units which is conducive for muscular hypertrophy. I routinely use this training system myself and with my clients. Listed below is a modified split that I like to employ:
Day1
Deadlifts 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Chest Press Movement10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day2
Delt Pres Movement 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Barbell Curls 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Day3
Squats 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)
Dips 10x10 (60-80 sec’s rest between sets)

Day 4 OFF

Day 5-7 I do a modified version of Texas Method and or 5x5 which are very similar programs with a rest day inserted between each session. I then take 1-3 days off at the end of the training cycle and repeat. I have found that breaking up the GVT split with some heavier training days to yield greater overall strength gains.

I see I totally mis-read the details on the Days 5-7. It makes more sense to me now. I do believe that on those 5x5 days is when some accessory movements could be worked in as the time would be available, as opposed to the 10x10 days, those sets pretty much consume the entire workout. For me anyways, I only have an hour or so to spend at the gym.