What type of program

[ddfox]

I Don't know that much about different training programs. Have always done some basic Chest/ Tris , Back/Bis, Legs type of programs.
Thinking of doing...

Bench
Deadlift
Off
Overhead Press or Seated Military
Squats
Off

Each day would focus on just one lift. Maybe 5-6 sets. Is there a similar program that I can search for more information? Would like to try something like this for 6 weeks or so. Thanks for any info.

 

[ddfox]

Age: 45

Wt: 170

Bf% : around 13-14%

Goal : Strength & Slow Bulk. Good foundation.

 

[PaulBlack]

You could try Dan John's One Lift A Day set up.
Dan is a good athlete, guru and guy, forgot what most of us know...

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_one_lift_a_day_program

Specific routines do not matter as much as the work, effort and consistency put into a handful of big compound lifts, using weight progressions and eating enough.
The crux of any big solid gains.

 

[ddfox]

Thx, I'll check that out.

 

[amarula]

You could try Dan John's One Lift A Day set up.
Dan is a good athlete, guru and guy, forgot what most of us know...

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_one_lift_a_day_program

Specific routines do not matter as much as the work, effort and consistency put into a handful of big compound lifts, using weight progressions and eating enough.
The crux of any big solid gains.

Have you tried that approach?

 

[money0351]

Or 5/3/1 big but boring routine... I use these exact splits but it's nice having a set weight for each week that progresses over time

 

[PaulBlack]

Have you tried that approach?

I have not, but I know a few guys than know Dan and have liked like it. Especially when they are kicked for time, or are on the road with their job etc.
The closest I probably came, was when I would do 20 rep squat or dead routines, I just did those and maybe 1 other exercise, like heavy rowing or push presses.

 

[ddfox]

It didn't seem to mention anything about rest time between sets? I'm assuming 2min or more?

 

[PaulBlack]

Personally I do not get that concise to count actual rest times. I think it is overlooking the fundamental aspect of training hard on a few big exercises.
If you need 2-5 mins to be pretty much 80%+ or so recovered for the next set, then take it. Your gains will be measured much better by the mirror and weight added to bar over w/o cycles/time.
As one slowly tunes their work capacity and GPP (general physical preparedness) to the exercises (squats will most likely need more recovery time than say BP's) you will learn when to go, when to push hard, if you wanna push harder, when one is kinda doggin' it etc. etc.

Don't overthink the small stuff, as getting into the gym on a reg basis and using focus and determination, hitting the big stuff hard and adding weight to the bar, diet according to goals, usually make all the difference in the world to making any routine successful. Not much else one needs to focus on to get gains actually.

 

[ddfox]

Perfect. Thanks. Tomorrow is Day 1.

 

[wasme]

I would look into German Volume Training at some point too...

 

[kisaj]

I have not, but I know a few guys than know Dan and have liked like it. Especially when they are kicked for time, or are on the road with their job etc.
The closest I probably came, was when I would do 20 rep squat or dead routines, I just did those and maybe 1 other exercise, like heavy rowing or push presses.

I just finished up a 20 rep squat routine 8 weeks ago and it kicked my ass!! It was fun and terrifying, but I ended up finishing with 335 x 20. The downside is that it took me almost 5 weeks to get back to my prior 2-3RM.

But I digress- I am a huge fan of one movement a day routines. I am taking a little break on routines before I start up on an old school traditional split again and lately have been doing one move. Last Monday I squated 10 sets in a pyramid scheme maxing at 3RM and dropset. I only work calves in addition. Tues, it was rows for 10 sets in similar fashion and added in high pulls. Wed off. Thurs was BB bench for 10 and then dips. Fri was deads and assisted with some RDL.

Basically one big move and then an accessory. It is refreshing and I feel strong as hell.

 

[PaulBlack]

I just finished up a 20 rep squat routine 8 weeks ago and it kicked my ass!! It was fun and terrifying, but I ended up finishing with 335 x 20.

Nice work...!

The downside is that it took me almost 5 weeks to get back to my prior 2-3RM.

So you did not feel you gained anything working back into a new max for you lower reps!?

This is probably why I started to steer away some, since years back, I was doing #325x20 squats, #500x15 with the trap bar, but my max singles were only about #40-#50 pounds heavier.
Now, doing lower reps, my rep to single ratio is a good bit higher.

 

[kisaj]

Exactly. I felt that it increased my endurance greatly, but overall strength was compromised. My normal 2-3RM is 495 and once I was done with the 20rep routine, I struggled to get 405 for 2-3. My body just adapted quickly, But on the plus side, the conditioning before and during allowed me to get right back to 495 reps after that 5 week build up.

So, I think it is a great routine for building size and conditioning, which I did definitely do, but to do it for 6-8 weeks is a tradeoff for overall power.

edit- I will say that I do think that in combination with HIIT, it is a great routine for athletic improvement. With begging of my wife to go "show off" in her cross fit class, I did go twice and posted the second fastest time right behind the owner of the place each time by only 3-5 seconds. So that meant I was better at exercising than everyone but the owner and just barely. HAHA. That always makes me chuckle because they love to talk about how unfit "globo gym" guys are.

 

[PaulBlack]

Actually, I may tend to agree with Dr Ken on this stuff, that if I use the high reps stuff for the mass and work ethic gains, as I apply the lower rep cycle (it may take a month or so) but the ratio changes and I would end up with a higher single max most of the time.
I guess some have to wait for that supercompensation to click in.

Lastly, if really high reps (20+) worked best for single max carryover strength, the top dogs in the biz would be doing them on a reg basis and they are not.
Now, I could work all day at my job carrying furniture up/down stairs and rarely if ever get winded when I was doing x20's.
I still get the best carryover for a max single from multi sets of from 80%-95% ie: x5's, x3's' x2's.

The joke in oly lifting was x1's,2x's for strength, x3's for mass, x5's was cardio ha ha

 

[kisaj]

Yeah, I lift with a few old school PLs from Poland and Russia and that is still their mind set. They've asked me to join in on a rep day and it always goes to 4 or 5. lol

 

[JXiiXViii]

5/3/1 by Jim Wendler ran with his Boring But Big program for assistance work is the best program I have ever done.

Focuses on all the big lifts and you hit them twice per week. One day is a strength day and the other is a volume day. Best of both worlds.

 

[braskibra]

5/3/1 by Jim Wendler ran with his Boring But Big program for assistance work is the best program I have ever done.

Focuses on all the big lifts and you hit them twice per week. One day is a strength day and the other is a volume day. Best of both worlds.

The only thing I hate about that is the conflicting training effects but should work for a beginner.

 

[JXiiXViii]

The only thing I hate about that is the conflicting training effects but should work for a beginner.

What do you mean exactly? I feel like they compliment each other perfectly.

I don't think it's suited to just a beginner at all. Been lifting for a little over 10 years myself and that's the program I see the best results with.

 

[kisaj]

I have never been a fan of 5/3/1 because I find it hard for people to stick with as it is a slow building program on it's own. Not to say it doesn't work, but things only work if people stick with them. Boring But Big is an excellent addition to increase gains and help people stick with the approach because they actually see increases due to the hypertrophy assistance sets.

 

[JXiiXViii]

I have never been a fan of 5/3/1 because I find it hard for people to stick with as it is a slow building program on it's own. Not to say it doesn't work, but things only work if people stick with them. Boring But Big is an excellent addition to increase gains and help people stick with the approach because they actually see increases due to the hypertrophy assistance sets.

I know what you're saying, but the program is designed that way for a reason. If you follow it exactly as it's laid out, you actually make progress every single week (assuming your diet is in check as well).

I've been following it since around October of the previous year with Boring But Big for my assistance work, and as for the big lifts (squat, bench, overhead press, deadlift, and hang cleans), the numbers went up every single week in weight or reps. I also put on about 15 pounds with minimal body fat gain.

If that's truly the case, that people don't stick with it because they feel it's "too slow", then the problem is with the individual, not the program. I would go so far as to say someone with that mindset is probably never going to make progress because they want the quick fix and will jump from program to program without giving anything time to actually work.

I can only speak from personal experience, but I don't feel it moves too slow at all. Can't complain when every single week your numbers go up, especially having been lifting for 10 years.

 

[braskibra]

Differences in training effects can negate previous work done in that training session or in weekly training sessions

 

[GreenMachineX]

I just finished up a 20 rep squat routine 8 weeks ago and it kicked my ass!! It was fun and terrifying, but I ended up finishing with 335 x 20. The downside is that it took me almost 5 weeks to get back to my prior 2-3RM.

But I digress- I am a huge fan of one movement a day routines. I am taking a little break on routines before I start up on an old school traditional split again and lately have been doing one move. Last Monday I squated 10 sets in a pyramid scheme maxing at 3RM and dropset. I only work calves in addition. Tues, it was rows for 10 sets in similar fashion and added in high pulls. Wed off. Thurs was BB bench for 10 and then dips. Fri was deads and assisted with some RDL.

Basically one big move and then an accessory. It is refreshing and I feel strong as hell.

You do 10 sets for deadlifts also? When planning for 10 working sets, do you start with like 50% of 1RM and do 10 or so and incrementally build up to 3RM? Right now I'm doing 5x5, 4x4, or 5x3 for deadlifts and overhead press, but looking for other ways to mix it up. I'm a big fan of one big move a day also.

 

[kisaj]

Deads-
5 x warm up
5 x warm up
1 x working rep all @ 80%, pause 15 sec
1 x working rep, pause 15 sec
...until 10 are complete.
I guide down the eccentric move and do not drop until below my knees in a controlled manner. Reset, go again.


Squats-
5 x warm up (135lb)
5 x warm up adding weight (225lb)
5 x warm up adding weight (315lb)
1 x working rep @ 80%, pause 15 sec (405lb)
1 x working rep @ 80%, pause 15 sec
...so on until 10.

Right now I am trying to add 10lb per week as long as I can complete the 10 reps. If I can't then I need to stay at that weight until I can do it.

 

[Gutterpump]

5/3/1 by Jim Wendler ran with his Boring But Big program for assistance work is the best program I have ever done.

Focuses on all the big lifts and you hit them twice per week. One day is a strength day and the other is a volume day. Best of both worlds.

If you liked 5/3/1 BBB assistance, give it a shot with Periodization Method assistance. More variation, and geared more towards powerbuilders / bodybuilding. BBB is good but limited to the same barbell movements. Periodization Method assistance (which is kind of weirdly named) allows you to do high volume work with any type of movements after your main big lifts. Brutal amount of volume over time, works amazingly well for size (and strength).

 

[JXiiXViii]

If you liked 5/3/1 BBB assistance, give it a shot with Periodization Method assistance. More variation, and geared more towards powerbuilders / bodybuilding. BBB is good but limited to the same barbell movements. Periodization Method assistance (which is kind of weirdly named) allows you to do high volume work with any type of movements after your main big lifts. Brutal amount of volume over time, works amazingly well for size (and strength).

Sounds interesting. Do you have a link where I can find it? I tried searching Google but can't seem to find it. There's something by Karsten Jensen called 'Flexible Periodization' but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.

 

[JXiiXViii]

Differences in training effects can negate previous work done in that training session or in weekly training sessions

I'm gonna have to disagree with this. If I'm training squat for example and I do my heavy 5/3/1 day on Monday, and then I squat again on Thursday and do my 5x10 volume work, they aren't going to conflict with each other.

By the time Thursday rolls around, it's been 3 days in between workouts and your body will have recovered by then.

I could see maybe if I did my heavy squats and volume squats on the same day how they would conflict (not to mention idk how anyone could do that many squats in a single workout), but spreading them out by 3 days is perfectly fine.

 

[Rodja]

Sounds interesting. Do you have a link where I can find it? I tried searching Google but can't seem to find it. There's something by Karsten Jensen called 'Flexible Periodization' but I'm not sure if that's the same thing.

Dave Tate Periodization Bible

 

[JXiiXViii]

Dave Tate Periodization Bible

Found it. Thanks.

So it seems like it's pretty similar to BBB in that you're doing 5 sets of 10+ for the assistance work, but the exercise selection is just different (more choices).

What did the routine look like for you guys when you ran it if you don't mind sharing? Mainly which assistance lifts did you use on each day?

 

[Gutterpump]

Found it. Thanks.

So it seems like it's pretty similar to BBB in that you're doing 5 sets of 10+ for the assistance work, but the exercise selection is just different (more choices).

What did the routine look like for you guys when you ran it if you don't mind sharing? Mainly which assistance lifts did you use on each day?

I ran a log with all my details here:

http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/177833-5-3-1-a.html

Hope it helps. Was a pretty good routine. I might've changed things as I went along.