Lower Lat Tie In and overall BACK help

[Kingmars]

Just competed in my first physique competition, and now it's time to improve upon my initial showing. I'd like some help targeting my lower lat tie ins and my mid back. All constructive criticism welcome as long as you over a some tips to remedy my shortcomings. Thanks in advance guys!

 

[kjetil1234]

Rows with a wide grip solved this issue for me!

 

[PaulBlack]

Do you do a steady diet of...

deadlifting (types)
Hypers
Bent rowing
Shrugging
High Pulls perhaps

 

[Kingmars]

Do you do a steady diet of... deadlifting (types) Hypers Bent rowing Shrugging High Pulls perhaps

Yeah...all those. I never really feel a pump in my lats or my rhomboids.. My traps yeah, but my lats and mid back never seem to respond no matter how much weight I'm moving.

 

[PaulBlack]

Hmmm, hard to say!? Maybe some of it has to do with cals or the restriction thereof or maybe carbs?
They (the back) is a large slabby group. Not like say arms or delts etc. It is easy to pump a smaller muscle up that has shorter insertion points etc. See what I mean?
Also, perhaps changing the execution of said exercises and or the weight loads, volume, frequency used too!? But I am sure you are not new to that either!?
Not that a pump is the be all end all to gains, but I see what you're saying.
Still, for your level of vascularity, your back is not very bad IMHO. Although I have never judged a show, so take that for what it is worth.

 

[Kingmars]

Hmmm, hard to say!? Maybe some of it has to do with cals or the restriction thereof or maybe carbs? They (the back) is a large slabby group. Not like say arms or delts etc. It is easy to pump a smaller muscle up that has shorter insertion points etc. See what I mean? Also, perhaps changing the execution of said exercises and or the weight loads, volume, frequency used too!? But I am sure you are not new to that either!? Not that a pump is the be all end all to gains, but I see what you're saying. Still, for your level of vascularity, your back is not very bad IMHO. Although I have never judged a show, so take that for what it is worth.

Thanks, Paul! I'm just looking to probably get wider and thicker, but I definitely know I want more of a gradual taper, rather than a huge drop off between my upper and lower lats. I'd just really like to put some meet on my rhomboids along with those aforementioned lower lats.

 

[kjetil1234]

Yeah...all those. I never really feel a pump in my lats or my rhomboids.. My traps yeah, but my lats and mid back never seem to respond no matter how much weight I'm moving.

Sounds like your scapula doesn't lock properly with the serratus anterior. This will inhibit the lats.

 

[Kingmars]

Sounds like your scapula doesn't lock properly with the serratus anterior. This will inhibit the lats.

Any cues or tips you can offer to fix this, my man?

 

[kjetil1234]

Well, kind of hard without being with you. Basically you need to make sure the scapula locks down posteriorly as you pull down, in or whatever. You do NOT want the scapula to wing out, excessively retract or protract(rare), anteriorly rotate, etc

If the scapular is elevated (dysfunctional stabilization), the trapz will be targeted(which you have confirmed, so that's a quite positive indication of dysfunctional scapular articulation). Also shoulder and neck pain etc may be experienced.

My first tip is to work your serratus a lot. Push ups or scapular push ups with a band are king. Keep to weights where you're able to lock (properly stabilize) the scapula according to the exercise. Most of the time, it should lock in the posterior position.

Hope this helps.

 

[PaulBlack]

I'd just really like to put some meet on my rhomboids along with those aforementioned lower lats.

2 cents...
I think of some oly lifters backs like Rigert comes to mind or even Bob Peoples. A really thick (especially lower back) for a little guy.

Thickness and meat!?
How much do you DL or what is your working weights say?
"Meat" per se, IMHO, comes from some power and some heavy pulling work from the floor.

 

[Kingmars]

2 cents... I think of some oly lifters backs like Rigert comes to mind or even Bob Peoples. A really thick (especially lower back) for a little guy. Thickness and meat!? How much do you DL or what is your working weights say? "Meat" per se, IMHO, comes from some power and some heavy pulling work from the floor.

Yeah sorry for the misspelling. Sometimes when I'm typing too fast I'll do that. But right now I'm DL'ng 405 max working sets 365x5-6. This offseason I'm going to look to increase it though.

 

[PaulBlack]

No prob on spellck haha. I catch myself all the time, no engrish major here for me.
That is some good working DL weight.

 

[CheslinK]

Well, kind of hard without being with you. Basically you need to make sure the scapula locks down posteriorly as you pull down, in or whatever. You do NOT want the scapula to wing out, excessively retract or protract(rare), anteriorly rotate, etc

If the scapular is elevated (dysfunctional stabilization), the trapz will be targeted(which you have confirmed, so that's a quite positive indication of dysfunctional scapular articulation). Also shoulder and neck pain etc may be experienced.

My first tip is to work your serratus a lot. Push ups or scapular push ups with a band are king. Keep to weights where you're able to lock (properly stabilize) the scapula according to the exercise. Most of the time, it should lock in the posterior position.

Hope this helps.

Great advice!

 

[Kingmars]

Well, kind of hard without being with you. Basically you need to make sure the scapula locks down posteriorly as you pull down, in or whatever. You do NOT want the scapula to wing out, excessively retract or protract(rare), anteriorly rotate, etc If the scapular is elevated (dysfunctional stabilization), the trapz will be targeted(which you have confirmed, so that's a quite positive indication of dysfunctional scapular articulation). Also shoulder and neck pain etc may be experienced. My first tip is to work your serratus a lot. Push ups or scapular push ups with a band are king. Keep to weights where you're able to lock (properly stabilize) the scapula according to the exercise. Most of the time, it should lock in the posterior position. Hope this helps.

Good lookin out! I've tried locking my scap and can totally feel the difference. I'm working on strengthening my serratus to assist.

 

[kjetil1234]

Good lookin out! I've tried locking my scap and can totally feel the difference. I'm working on strengthening my serratus to assist.

Good. The elbows need to be pulled to the chest and slightly backward. Not horizontal, like it would if the scapula is not functioning properly, and don't allow the arms to internally rotate either. Happy to hear it bro!

 

[Kingmars]

Good. The elbows need to be pulled to the chest and slightly backward. Not horizontal, like it would if the scapula is not functioning properly, and don't allow the arms to internally rotate either. Happy to hear it bro!

Sorry, Brotha. What'd you mean by "elbows pulled to the chest and slightly backward. not horizontal"?

 

[kjetil1234]

Sorry, Brotha. What'd you mean by "elbows pulled to the chest and slightly backward. not horizontal"?

No problem man. The elbows should be pointing(and moving) down the exact same way as the way you're pulling. Not stick out backward, which it will if the scapula isn't kept stable (and the trapz will be targeted instead).

Hope this helps bro