Unsure of this split

[EggzNDsuch]

I'm 25, 5'9, 185, <10%bf, been lifting for 9 years

I recently switched up my split to appease my lifting partner but I wanted to get your take on it.

Day1: Chest/Back
Day2: Arms
Day3: Legs/Delts
Day4: OFF
**then it starts over

It has me doing these things twice a week. I'm all for it in terms of legs but I'm a little afraid that it is too much, specifically with arms. What do you guys think?

 

[snyderd1972]

It seems a little inefficient I like to pair tris with chest and biceps with back for the simple fact that they should already be warm and ready to go.
Also my biceps routine takes about 10 min and my triceps takes maybe 15 tops I also prefer to train legs alone because I usually find it hard to stand let alone perform any kind of shoulder movement.

 

[PaulBlack]

You wrote the lead in like you are in doubt!?
Maybe others who are not so sure too, can learn a bit or gain some insight...
Do you have an idea why it might not be so ideal?
What were you doing before this switch?
What are your goals? /Are your partners the same?
Over your training years, what do (you) think (others can chime too) is some take away important bullet points for gaining?

Discussion perhaps!?

 

[nicksox15]

You wrote the lead in like you are in doubt!?
Maybe others who are not so sure too, can learn a bit or gain some insight...
Do you have an idea why it might not be so ideal?
What were you doing before this switch?
What are your goals? /Are your partners the same?
Over your training years, what do (you) think (others can chime too) is some take away important bullet points for gaining?

Discussion perhaps!?

I don't like you having chest and back on the same day. They require far more attention than the arms and should be split up. Do you just keep doing that with one day off then back into it forever? How many reps/sets?

 

[PaulBlack]

I don't like you having chest and back on the same day. They require far more attention than the arms and should be split up. Do you just keep doing that with one day off then back into it forever? How many reps/sets?

Personally, I do not necessarily see that as a problem, especially if one is interested in just getting as big and strong in the largest structures as possible.
(and no, one does not have to follow it as a 5x5) It could be higher less intense rep work, while still adding to the progressions...


ie:
Day 1
BP's
Rows
Core
Shoulder prehab

Day 2
Squats or Leg Presses
OHP's
Arms/Grip Work/calves

Day 3
Incline Presses or Weighted Dips
Rows
Core
Shoulder prehab

Day 4
Deads
Shrugs
Arms/Grip/calves

Or something along those lines.
If one concentrates on adding weight weekly, or even bi weekly (say #2 pounds for BP's, rows, presses and #5 for squats and deads). That is a pretty big addition in a year and a great addition in a few years, if they are serious about reaching some top goals in strength and size throughout the entire body. After they reach a certain amount of just overall size, then they could add in shaping work if they are so inclined.
I really think some people put a lot of time and effort into the small stuff, so they figure they need to do it for an entire session, whereas, if one puts the time and effort into the really large stuff and beats themselves up a little with some hard work and effort (and doing a good big of eating) the body grows all over and gets thicker and heavier muscled in the largest structures.
Also remember, most of the guys in the mags are selling the mag. for supps or just the mag. and are also probably assisted PED wise, so to emulate their W/O's, to me, is not getting the biggest bang for you training dollar.
While some of the short or abbreviated routines are not super glamorous, they will produce probably the best (especially for more natural lifters) in just plain mass and strength, if they are worked hard and adhered to.

 

[Sean1332]

%100 agree with Paul, as usual. Great advice. I see no issue whatsoever with combining a pull/row variation with any pressing. I'll train 4x a week, similar to what Paul wrote out, and my back has experienced the most gains in both strength and hypertrophy, from hitting it on each upper day, and depending on other variables, I may do a light pulling movement on the day I train deadlifts.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

You wrote the lead in like you are in doubt!?
Maybe others who are not so sure too, can learn a bit or gain some insight...
Do you have an idea why it might not be so ideal?
What were you doing before this switch?
What are your goals? /Are your partners the same?
Over your training years, what do (you) think (others can chime too) is some take away important bullet points for gaining?

Discussion perhaps!?

Yes I am in doubt...worried that it's over training in terms of arms. Arms 2x a week just seems like too much.
I was on a 5 day split where I did Chest, Arms, Legs, Shoulders, Back, OFF, OFF
Right now my goals are to add the finishing touches to my cut & so is my lifting partner.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

I don't like you having chest and back on the same day. They require far more attention than the arms and should be split up. Do you just keep doing that with one day off then back into it forever? How many reps/sets?

I've never minded doing a chest & back in the same day...I've always seen good gains when I've done it. I think the split is tough cause the arm work is a lot & shoulders with legs is a lot for one day. I like to not be able to walk on leg day...& wanna chop my arms off on shoulder day. Today was leg day & shoulders took the hit where I didn't hit them as hard as I normally would have. Yes it's 3 days on, 1 off, then 3 on again..forever

This is what I did this week to make it work. It was a bit much to do the delts on the same day as legs.

Day1: Chest- flat bench plus assistance/Back- focus primarily on lats
Day2: Arms
Day3: Legs- squats & quads/shoulders-presses
Day4: OFF
Day5: Chest- primarily incline & assistance/Back- Upper back
Day6: Arms- different exercises than day2 limited volume
Day7: Legs- deadlift, hams, glutes, lower back/ shoulders- primarily raises some light presses.
Day8: OFF
STARTS OVER

 

[EWolfe08]

Try it out for 4 weeks and then adjust from there. Always gotta keep in mind some people's body respond different to different types of training. Trying new things is good.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Try it out for 4 weeks and then adjust from there. Always gotta keep in mind some people's body respond different to different types of training. Trying new things is good.

I completely agree

 

[PaulBlack]

Yes I am in doubt...worried that it's over training in terms of arms. Arms 2x a week just seems like too much.
I was on a 5 day split where I did Chest, Arms, Legs, Shoulders, Back, OFF, OFF
Right now my goals are to add the finishing touches to my cut & so is my lifting partner.

Okay, well, I am of the school that arms get trained with most heavy elbow bending pulling work and most any heavy pressing work. Mine do anyway and are as big and strong as they were when I did 3x per blitzing and bombing with just arm exercises. I still do some tricep extensions after my chest and shoulder work, but I rarely do curls anymore on a reg basis and my biceps are still as big and strong as when I did them regularly years ago.

I guess too, if you are cutting, it is going to dig into your energy some. If I am training hard and pushing towards PRs say, I have to be eating pretty hard as well. So your goals may dictate your workload/output!?


I would be willing to bet most guys would be afraid to quit direct bicep work for a month (I was) and put more time in on heavy pulling and some grip work. Some may be pleasantly surprised how their arms don't shrink or even gain some. At least dropping the number of sets might even help.

Trying new things is good.

Again, this rings of Dan Johns quote that everything works for about 6 weeks...
I think it is because you change the stimulus, or perhaps increase it, because it is new and you hit it hard. And if it works by backing off, then you most likely needed a break to charge the CNS or something.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Okay, well, I am of the school that arms get trained with most heavy elbow bending pulling work and most any heavy pressing work. Mine do anyway and are as big and strong as they were when I did 3x per blitzing and bombing with just arm exercises. I still do some tricep extensions after my chest and shoulder work, but I rarely do curls anymore on a reg basis and my biceps are still as big and strong as when I did them regularly years ago.


I would be willing to bet most guys would be afraid to quit direct bicep work for a month (I was) and put more time in on heavy pulling and some grip work. Some may be pleasantly surprised how their arms don't shrink or even gain some. At least dropping the number of sets might even help.

Yeah I'd be nervous but willing to try that. Could be your genetics tho. Do you make gains with size of tris & bis? Mine have not gotten much bigger & I'm always of the school of thought that if they aren't sore the next day, you didn't hit them hard enough. I have to work my arms a **** ton to make them sore. Kinda torn here cause maybe I'm over training them & that's why I haven't seen big gains there.

 

[Sean1332]

DOMS isn't an indicator of a good workout. Just because you don't have DOMS, doesn't mean that your session was any less successful.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

DOMS isn't an indicator of a good workout. Just because you don't have DOMS, doesn't mean that your session was any less successful.

So you'd be comfortable if your legs weren't sore the next day?

 

[Sean1332]

So you'd be comfortable if your legs weren't sore the next day?

Yes, and they're big and strong. It's an indicator but just because you don't have DOMS doesn't mean it wasn't a successful session. More doesn't always equal better. Less can be better. Even just changing the intensity or frequency of a muscle group can be enough of a change.

 

[herderdude]

Yes, and they're big and strong.

Understatement of the week coming from the guy with multiple federation world records and within a year of owning an all-time WR.

Eggs, you're discussing with two guys weighing in excess of 210 with 600lb squats and deadlifts, they've been around the block and succeeded. I've personally grown 18" arms with all of my direct bicep work coming from three sets of 25lb preacher curls and/or 45lb barbell curls once a week at most. The rest of my arm stimulation comes from rows and bombing my triceps twice a week.

 

[PaulBlack]

I dunno. I have heard mixed comments about measuring your workouts by DOMS. I don't. I go by the workload that is scheduled and the weights I am supposed to hit. When I hit them I add weight and repeat.
As far as my genetics I do not have very good BBing genetics.
I am built for pulling, but other than that, my muscle bellies are not very full.
My belief and from my experiences is, if one is holding back on calories to stay cut, then gains, especially in the limbs are usually less than optimal, no matter how GdDm hard you train with isos. I used to beat the living crap out of my arms. I didn't make a lot of dif for me. Eating made more and the compounds (Agree with Herd on arms again too)
That is another reason I preach using the compounds almost exclusively. Even then, if one tends to be leaner, then limb size is usually less than our stockier counterpart.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Understatement of the week coming from the guy with multiple federation world records and within a year of owning an all-time WR.

Eggs, you're discussing with two guys weighing in excess of 210 with 600lb squats and deadlifts, they've been around the block and succeeded. I've personally grown 18" arms with all of my direct bicep work coming from three sets of 25lb preacher curls and/or 45lb barbell curls once a week at most. The rest of my arm stimulation comes from rows and bombing my triceps twice a week.

I think ima dial it back then at least in terms of arm work. WHat do you mean by bombing tris?

 

[herderdude]

I think ima dial it back then at least in terms of arm work. WHat do you mean by bombing tris?

Several sets of bench press, then 2-3 sets of a variation of the bench press, then JM Presses and possibly a lighter tricep like a dumbbell skullcrusher. Twice a week. So like 15-20 sets of triceps a week between compound movements and isolation.

My new favorite for triceps is 65lbs on the bar, monster mini bands run under the bench, 8 skullcrushers, 8 close grip bench press, and then 8 JM presses. Hits the whole tricep like crazy.

 

[EggzNDsuch]

Alright I'm resting fri, sat, & sunday this weekend. starting a new split monday.

Day1: deadlift hamstrings lower back
Day2: Chest tri
Day3: Back bi
Day4: squat quads
Day5: shoulders
Day6 & 7 OFF

 

[braskibra]

I'm 25, 5'9, 185, <10%bf, been lifting for 9 years

I recently switched up my split to appease my lifting partner but I wanted to get your take on it.

Day1: Chest/Back
Day2: Arms
Day3: Legs/Delts
Day4: OFF
**then it starts over

It has me doing these things twice a week. I'm all for it in terms of legs but I'm a little afraid that it is too much, specifically with arms. What do you guys think?

There is nothing wrong with this split, understand that when you are a highly trained individual (9 years), it is optimal to change your splits typically between 4-8 weeks. Hitting bodyparts 1-2-3 times per week can all be important resources in aiming for growth/performance. When it comes to training, an open mind is needed. Our culture has limited our ability for program design by lumping x bodypart with y. It is OK to overtrain for short periods, in fact overreaching can be very beneficial. You will find you get very sore from lifting bodyparts twice a week but by the end of week 2 you will have normalized. If you feel overtrained at this point then its ok to back off volume and allow the supercompensatory effect to take place. At the beginning of my program designs I will often have a 2 week overreach where I hit a bodypart >3 times a week for two straight weeks. Its brutal but rewarding.
I would be less concerned about arms (smaller muscle less resources it takes to recover) then multi-joint exercises such as squats, bench etc.

 

[braskibra]

DOMS isn't an indicator of a good workout. Just because you don't have DOMS, doesn't mean that your session was any less successful.

yes, although RPE subjective rating after a workout is a decent indicator

I think if you track that and the amount of lifts you perform in each intensity zone (60-70,70-80) you will find what your body responds to best and how to either dial it up or back

along with the standards of volume, intensity etc

 

[braskibra]

Understatement of the week coming from the guy with multiple federation world records and within a year of owning an all-time WR.

Eggs, you're discussing with two guys weighing in excess of 210 with 600lb squats and deadlifts, they've been around the block and succeeded. I've personally grown 18" arms with all of my direct bicep work coming from three sets of 25lb preacher curls and/or 45lb barbell curls once a week at most. The rest of my arm stimulation comes from rows and bombing my triceps twice a week.

I agree that direct stimulation for hypertrophy is typically best

 

[EggzNDsuch]

There is nothing wrong with this split, understand that when you are a highly trained individual (9 years), it is optimal to change your splits typically between 4-8 weeks. Hitting bodyparts 1-2-3 times per week can all be important resources in aiming for growth/performance. When it comes to training, an open mind is needed. Our culture has limited our ability for program design by lumping x bodypart with y. It is OK to overtrain for short periods, in fact overreaching can be very beneficial. You will find you get very sore from lifting bodyparts twice a week but by the end of week 2 you will have normalized. If you feel overtrained at this point then its ok to back off volume and allow the supercompensatory effect to take place. At the beginning of my program designs I will often have a 2 week overreach where I hit a bodypart >3 times a week for two straight weeks. Its brutal but rewarding.
I would be less concerned about arms (smaller muscle less resources it takes to recover) then multi-joint exercises such as squats, bench etc.

I tried the split & it was too much. Especially since I am currently at a slight deficit. I had all the symptoms of overtraining.

 

[snyderd1972]

I tried the split & it was too much. Especially since I am currently at a slight deficit. I had all the symptoms of overtraining.

And that is what it is all about listen to your body and adjust accordingly. Like I stated before heavy compounds then a little assistance work does the job for me after 25 years of trying to train like the bodybuilders in the magazines I find the efficient programs work best for me. I too have the genetics(and the drive) to be as big as humanly possible but I have to train smart. Set after set just doesn't get it done for me I lift heavy and briefly then pay very close attention to the amount of nutrients I take in and grow an get stronger.