I can front squat without knee pain, but not back squat.
- 04-01-2014, 08:59 PM
- 04-01-2014, 09:01 PM
Get a vid. Willing to bet you're leaning pretty far forward on the back squat but there's not much most can do other than offer conjecture.I'm just a dude chasing a dream
04-01-2014, 09:03 PM
04-01-2014, 09:10 PM
04-01-2014, 09:16 PM
I'm just a dude chasing a dream
04-01-2014, 09:17 PM
04-01-2014, 09:24 PM
04-01-2014, 09:27 PM
Well, we can't see your knees!!
What I did notice is:
Your unrack sucks. You "good morning" it out of the rack. Get your hips underneath you, hamstring tight, feet torqued in, and squat it up to unrack it.
Now, once you walk it out, you don't even acquire any bracing before you initiate the squat. The second you get your last foot walked out, you continue into the squat. I'm not saying to take your sweet time and and waste energy, but walk it out, set your feet, squeeze your glutes and brace your core to maintain a braced neutral spine. Then break at the hips, sit down and back, while either "spreading the floor" with your feet, or "screwing your feet into the ground. That will allow your to gain some tension, your hips open up, and your knees move outwards, in return-giving you a more perpendicular shin angle (which may be the culprit to your knee issues)
Then when you lock out you're squat, fully lock it out, just don't stand up and go directly into the rack. Squeeze your glutes and finish it off. Your lower back will feel better.
Also, tight muscles can contribute to knee pain as well. You should get a video of your front squat, too, so we can see what the differences are.
What kind of shoes do you wear? Why the box?
And if front squatting doesn't hurt, and you're not worried about a competition squat, then just continue front squatting if you can resolve the knee issue.
04-01-2014, 09:33 PM
04-01-2014, 09:33 PM
04-01-2014, 09:35 PM
04-01-2014, 09:36 PM
04-01-2014, 09:44 PM
04-01-2014, 10:35 PM
Try pushing your knees out, many people let knees cave in while rising. Keep your knees in line with your toes. Meaning if your toes are facing slightly out push your knees out also. Helped my knee pain a ton. Also fish oil and glucosamine with msm. Upped my doses
Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative
04-02-2014, 06:40 AM
Agree too, with almost rushing onto the box.
IMO, keep your form and speed to box the same no matter if it is just the bar, or max weight. Slow deliberate descending down to the box (no flopping onto it) and keep an arch, (up right, chest up, putting your balls on the box helps cement that arch in too. I don't rock "back" either. Then take that same form and just do it as a free squat. If a box squat does not hurt your knees, then the back squat should not either, IMO!?
Depending on your shoes and heels (that can make a dif on knee angles) and you need to get a good vid of the shins feet etc. to see where the shins track. They need to stay over the feet and not torque in or out.
I think this guy has been said to be pretty good at them, and I guess most importantly, his back squat looks almost exactly like this without the box...
Box Squats - YouTube
Ignore the loads being used here, (as learning to squat is not about how much but how well and efficient you do it and he is also using a suit) but just watch as he has pretty much the same form (as if he were going to a box) but is doing a free squat...
jo jordan squat training - YouTube
04-02-2014, 09:43 AM
04-02-2014, 10:00 AM
Took some still shots from the video using the plates as reference from start to "lockout."
04-02-2014, 10:53 AM
I'll try and take videos of my shin position. Yes I put the camera on the ground, but it winds up being up too high, or too low. All I have is a 10 year old point and click camera to work with. No smart phone and no video camera. I'm not sure if I can even get shoes to train in. I wear an 11 1/2 4E and I am extremely flat footed(zero arch). It's impossible to find shoes with no support in them at that size. I'll have to learn to squat bare foot.
04-02-2014, 11:13 AM
04-02-2014, 11:16 AM
The one thing I would ask, unless I missed it, what kind of knee pain do you experience? Is it front of knee (patellar tendon) or internal (meniscus, perhaps or one of the internal ligaments)? One knee or both knees? I've had patellar tendonitis in both knees since college from constant jump training, and in order for me to be able to perform squats w/o knee pain I have to thoroughly warm up, but I also need to start with light weight and a narrow stance, then I can start working to a wider stance with heavier weights. I also focus on a very slow descent before I drive up. These 3 strategies have allowed me to sqaut with virtually no knee pain. If I don't follow them then my knees ache during and for days after.
04-02-2014, 11:19 AM
04-02-2014, 11:22 AM
04-02-2014, 11:28 AM
04-02-2014, 11:32 AM
04-02-2014, 11:38 AM
04-02-2014, 11:43 AM
04-02-2014, 11:59 AM
04-02-2014, 02:27 PM
That was a great angle and to me I see the issue.
Your feet are to far externally rotated. This causes excessive pronation of the foot, therefore rotating the lower leg internally and collapsing the structure all the way up the hips. This forces one to squat on top of their legs instead of between them.
Point your feet more forward and push your knees out. This external rotation will force more supination of the foot and allow easier movement of the knees outward and allow you to squat between the legs and allow it to be more of a hip dominant movement instead of a knee dominant movement
you can call me "ozzie" for short.
04-02-2014, 02:33 PM
04-03-2014, 06:08 AM
Something to remember too is, (for anyone really) if one is going to post form vids, I agree with the schools, that it is probably best to use the working weight/loads you will be using after your W/U's, since the form you most likely want critiqued is going to be the heavier work form that needs to be done and kept on your "working sets" and not just a light warm up or empty bar.
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