ADVICE.... AGAIN

ethan_wilde

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I realize some of the bodybuilding world doesnt believe my calorie in take due to my mistake with counting the calories and all that. However i respect all of the advice and criticism given to me. NOW, i just started jim wendlers 531 program. Even tho im skinny and dont have to biggest body or 1rm. I still love the gym i have one down stairs from my apt and at school i just love it. I WOULD LIKE TO NO WHAT I CAN DO ON OFF DAYS OR NOT EVEN OFF DAYS JUST DAYS IM NOT DOING THE PROGRAM. I cant rest or recover my body doesnt get sore. Heres my schedule. Tuesday- bench with chest thursday - deadlift with back .. Friday- military press with shoulders .. Sunday squat with legs.
 
hurdlemaker

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Based on what you're doing I'd add in biceps and forearms mon, calves and abs wed and tris sat
 
hurdlemaker

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But personally I use a different schedule. I do:
Monday: chest and abs
Tuesday: biceps, forearms, calves
Wed: quads
Thurs: shoulders, triceps, abs
Fri: back
Sat: hamstrings and calves
 
Sean1332

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But personally I use a different schedule. I do: Monday: chest and abs Tuesday: biceps, forearms, calves Wed: quads Thurs: shoulders, triceps, abs Fri: back Sat: hamstrings and calves
Unfortunetly 5/3/1 is a 4 day routine that's based around Bench, Squat, OHP, and deadlift
 
Sean1332

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You have to rest and recover. Just because you're not sore, doesn't mean you're recovered.

Follow the program how it's written and it will produce the results you want. On your off days you can do some conditioning if you'd like.

I would search in the training logs. There's several members that are actively runnin 5/3/1, and you could gain some knowledge by reading through them.
 
hurdlemaker

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Unfortunetly 5/3/1 is a 4 day routine that's based around Bench, Squat, OHP, and deadlift
I know, I was offering what routine I follow for growth :) but I train more for bodybuilding vs powerlifting, my strength has just come along with my physique haha
 
napalm

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Stopped reading at "I can't rest or recover"
 
ethan_wilde

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You have to rest and recover. Just because you're not sore, doesn't mean you're recovered.

Follow the program how it's written and it will produce the results you want. On your off days you can do some conditioning if you'd like.

I would search in the training logs. There's several members that are actively runnin 5/3/1, and you could gain some knowledge by reading through them.
Been bulking and gaining mass dont want to lose it if i condition and do cardio. Am i right or wrong your one of the few on this thing that i actually take your advice and use it.
 
hooah47

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Been bulking and gaining mass dont want to lose it if i condition and do cardio. Am i right or wrong your one of the few on this thing that i actually take your advice and use it.
Conditioning and cardio are not exactly the same. Conditioning is used to improve your health and overall endurance level while maintaining size and strength. Short bursts of energy I.e. sprints, prowler work, battle ropes, box jumps, bleachers, dynamic work, etc.
 
hurdlemaker

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Just because you're sore doesn't mean you shouldn't train.
Yes, yes it actually does. If you are trying to grow, lifting when sore is counterproductive. You grow when you REST. When I'm training to grow I won't have less than 5 days between doing the same muscle group. If you're lifting when sore it means you're muscles are still broken down from your previous training session and haven't rebuilt yet, this means you can actually shrink yourself by tearing more muscle fibers that aren't going to be able to repair themselves as they should.
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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Yes, yes it actually does. If you are trying to grow lifting when sore is counterproductive. You grow when you REST. When in training to grow I won't have less than 5 days between doing the same muscle group. If you're lifting when sore it means you're muscles are still broken down from your previous training session and haven't rebuilt yet, this means you can actually shrink yourself by tearing more muscle fibers that aren't going to be able to repair themselves as they should.
:) never gained more strength/muscle in my entire life. I credit lifting heavy 6 times a week and eating meat.
But sure, have it your way, knowing someone who has been lifting half as long breaks you PRs.

Yes yes I know no videos blabla... I have guys asking me in the gym what supps I take how I do it etc. Truth is I FORCE my body to adapt I don't hold back just because weider tells me to.
 
hurdlemaker

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:) never gained more strength/muscle in my entire life. I credit lifting heavy 6 times a week and eating meat. But sure, have it your way, knowing someone who has been lifting half as long breaks you PRs. Yes yes I know no videos blabla... I have guys asking me in the gym what supps I take how I do it etc. Truth is I FORCE my body to adapt I don't hold back just because weider tells me to.
what? I don't even know who u are lol. You say you've been lifting half as long as me and break my PR's? How do you know how long I've been lifting or what my PR's are? I've had people asking me what I'm taking for the last 6-7 years, lol
 
hurdlemaker

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I found your log, lmfao, you don't come close to what I lift buddy. Keen dreaming of benching over 100kg for reps lmao
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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what? I don't even know who u are lol. You say you've been lifting half as long as me and break my PR's? How do you know how long I've been lifting or what my PR's are? I've had people asking me what I'm taking for the last 6-7 years, lol
General statement bud. But have it your way. People that achieve stuff do so because they rest more, not because they work harder than the rest. Yeah... elite strongmen/powerlifters/bodybuilders/olimpuc weightlifters bust their ass for hours a day 6 days a week (almost all of them at least) So why tell people to rest more instead of working harder?
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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I found your log, lmfao, you don't come close to what I lift buddy. Keen dreaming of benching over 100kg for reps lmao
Give me another what... 5 years?

Been at it for 6 months and compared to what training was like before I feel as though rhis is a million times better.

Though I understand my experience counts for little at best. Google chaos and pain. Record holder in powerlifting after his third meet wven though he never trained for it. Obviously overdoing it and losing strength.
 
hurdlemaker

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General statement bud. But have it your way. People that achieve stuff do so because they rest more, not because they work harder than the rest. Yeah... elite strongmen/powerlifters/bodybuilders/olimpuc weightlifters bust their ass for hours a day 6 days a week (almost all of them at least) So why tell people to rest more instead of working harder?
Its about breaking down the muscle tissue (busting your ass in the gym) and then giving your body adequate time to grow. I lift 6 days a week. I just stagger my body parts so that I am never sore for the lifts I'll be doing that day. Maybe it's a little advanced for you? Haha jk, I can share if you'd like. And btw if you're quoting me then what you're saying is directed at me, not a general statement
 
Sean1332

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Just because you're sore doesn't mean you shouldn't train.
Okay...What does that have to do with what I said? What I said was: Just because you aren't sore, doesn't necessarily mean you're recovered. There are days that I don't experience DOMS, even with working a maximal load. That doesn't mean I'm recovered.

I'd rather him not think he can train chest every day because he's not sore lol
 
hurdlemaker

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How old are u kid? Here's me at 21, natural. Quit thinking you're such a bad ass

image-2146032489.jpg
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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Its about breaking down the muscle tissue (busting your ass in the gym) and then giving your body adequate time to grow. I lift 6 days a week. I just stagger my body parts so that I am never sore for the lifts I'll be doing that day. Maybe it's a little advanced for you? Haha jk, I can share if you'd like
Read lots of reports of people struggling to pull 315lbs after 2 years even though they dollowed SS or 531.
Pulled it after 6 months of not following anyones programm.
But whatever I am a newb, cannot change that and if you think that because of it I am not qualified to compared 6 to 24 so be it.
 
Sean1332

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Read lots of reports of people struggling to pull 315lbs after 2 years even though they dollowed SS or 531. Pulled it after 6 months of not following anyones programm. But whatever I am a newb, cannot change that and if you think that because of it I am not qualified to compared 6 to 24 so be it.
Can you share those reports? I'm genuinely interested in it to see those details.
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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How old are u kid? Here's me at 21, natural. Quit thinking you're such a bad ass

<img src="http://anabolicminds.com/forum/attachment.php?attachmentid=96677"/>
Cool. Gj I dont care about looks too too much, lots buff guys at my gym that are surprised a human could even put 70kg over thwir head
 

ThaGerGuy3000

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Ok off to sleep now. But simpl think on this:
Do people actually get better at something by doing less of it?
 
hurdlemaker

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:) never gained more strength/muscle in my entire life. I credit lifting heavy 6 times a week and eating meat. But sure, have it your way, knowing someone who has been lifting half as long breaks you PRs. Yes yes I know no videos blabla... I have guys asking me in the gym what supps I take how I do it etc. Truth is I FORCE my body to adapt I don't hold back just because weider tells me to.
Was this not you typing? Did you have an out of body experience? Your PR's are less than I start my sets with. You decided to try and talk hard to me like you're mr Johnny hotshot, but you're not. Maybe read and learn on here a little before you start opening your mouth so much. Acting like you're an expert after 6 months is absurd
 
Wrivest

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Ok off to sleep now. But simpl think on this: Do people actually get better at something by doing less of it?
dude, you're in over your head. Hope you wake up a tad smarter and realize the guys you have been talking to know their shît. Like you said, you're a newb, so when a guy who had been hitting it hard for YEARS tells you something, don't get defensive......kinda makes ya look like a big ol douche!!
 
CountryLiftin

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:) never gained more strength/muscle in my entire life. I credit lifting heavy 6 times a week and eating meat.
But sure, have it your way, knowing someone who has been lifting half as long breaks you PRs.

Yes yes I know no videos blabla... I have guys asking me in the gym what supps I take how I do it etc. Truth is I FORCE my body to adapt I don't hold back just because weider tells me to.
Google "neural adaptation" and "beginner gains". I pulled 525 at 16 after a year of lifting. Bw-185. I'm now on wendlers program.



That said... 531 is an intermediate to advanced program and may not be right for OP.


Rest is how you get stronger. Period.
 
napalm

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This thread was a piece of shyt to begin with, then it got worse.

The broscience is strong in this one...
 
hurdlemaker

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This thread was a piece of shyt to begin with, then it got worse. The broscience is strong in this one...
haha, "I've been training for 6 months and I know everything, u ain't ever seen gains like deez"
 
Swanson52

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This thread was a piece of shyt to begin with, then it got worse.

The broscience is strong in this one...
I got stronger & smashed world records by benching once a week. Boom.
 
napalm

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I got stronger & smashed world records by benching once a week. Boom.
Well that's cause you wear blue tights w a big red 'S' on the chest. Or is that your natural skin tone and a tattoo?

Wait, wut?
 
Swanson52

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Well that's cause you wear blue tights w a big red 'S' on the chest. Or is that your natural skin tone and a tattoo?

Wait, wut?
My clothes just look like tights cuz I'm so swole'd up from smashing weights.
 
hurdlemaker

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In the end everyone's body is different and will respond differently to different training routines, supplements and diet. For instance I've been training like a bodybuilder (for my physique), yet I do not compete, I just like to look good, but I can out lift most of my buddies that compete for powerlifting.
 
asooneyeonig

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General statement bud. But have it your way. People that achieve stuff do so because they rest more, not because they work harder than the rest. Yeah... elite strongmen/powerlifters/bodybuilders/olimpuc weightlifters bust their ass for hours a day 6 days a week (almost all of them at least) So why tell people to rest more instead of working harder?
cant say i workout with elites. but several national level strongmen, they train no more than 4 days a week. several state record holders in olympic lifting, no more than 5 days a week, usually 4. as for powerlifters, i train with guys that hold state records, national and world records. there is a guy that totals 2500 equipped and another that totals 1800 raw and another that even writes for elitefts (mick manley). they train 4 days a week.

sure there are people that train 6 or 7 days and even do 10+ workouts a week. they also know how to manipulate volume and intensity appropriately. that takes years to fine tune sand changes on a yearly and even monthly basis. that is why getting on a proven program with scheduled deloads is so important for many people as they just dont know how to manipulate the variables.

many people also dont know you can be more frequent with olympic lifting due to its lack of eccentric movement. so the recovery is much faster therefore it is different on its frequency demands and therefore affects the volume and intensity needed. it also is known for 1 rep maxes which is high intensity and again changes the volume needs.

now your seemingly grand increase in weights lifted at first, welcome to being a newb in the weight room. even a horrible program can work when you get started. every year you are in the game it makes it harder. i feel lucky when i gain 5lbs on a lift after a 9 week cycle. ecstatic if i hit 10lbs gain. your gains are from improving the skill of lifting for the first few months and not much muscle gain if any. so dont think this is anything special or new to us old timers.

you are also digging yourself a hole here. i would recommend reading and learning more. please do offer advice from your experience, just understand there will always be those with more experience and more education and when they all agree with a topic and that means you are wrong, you may be wrong.
 
asooneyeonig

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In the end everyone's body is different and will respond differently to different training routines, supplements and diet. For instance I've been training like a bodybuilder (for my physique), yet I do not compete, I just like to look good, but I can out lift most of my buddies that compete for powerlifting.
i find this statement odd. how are we different? why are we different?

we only study one type of anatomy and one type of physiology. and to define physiology: the scientific study of function in living systems. This includes how organisms, organ systems, organs, cells, and bio-molecules carry out the chemical or physical functions that exist in a living system.

i believe another way to look at it is, the interaction between various anatomical structures. seeing as how we study 1 anatomical structure, and those parts of the anatomy work using the same mechanisms, therefore our physiology are all the same. hell, even other mammals are so close to us that scientists will even use mice to do research. that to me states that not only are we the same, we are so similar to other animals and their anatomy and physiology that it just makes that whole idea that we are all different just wrong.

i have thought about this for year and a chemist explained it to me wonderfully on how we can be different yet all have the same mechanisms.

as shown in the above definition its the chemical reactions that can make us different. at a high level view we see chemicals and we know how they interact therefore we know the basics. but chemistry uses math to determine the exact interaction with chemicals. change one variable and you get a different outcome. our bodies have different levels of chemicals, hormones for example, which alter the outcome. add in the fact that we have many other chemicals from all the processed foods we eat in our bodies and all those change the variables therefore changing the outcome. some may say that each variable changes maybe 1%. sure some do and others can change things by 10%. but add them all up and you may get as much as 50, or 75% difference in the outcome.

so to me, the mechanisms behind our bodies are all the same. therefore the same workouts will work. we can complicate things a bit more by throwing in muscular efficiency levels, or being more skilled, and work capacity and recovery ability which change month to month and even more so year to year its easy to me to see how people think that we are all different. but are all the same mechanisms at the simplest level. so we are all the same.

/end weird post that doesnt add much to the conversation
 
hurdlemaker

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Well people react different to different supplements, have different side effects from certain gear, have different metabolisms and growth rates, we can be different in many many ways. I lifted the same and took all the same supplements and ate almost identical to one of my college roommates and we had different results. We both had good results, just different. I do agree with a lot of what you said tho and thanks for adding to the convo :)
 
CountryLiftin

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Genetics, hormone levels, etc are all variables. Yes we have the same anatomical make-ups and our bodies work through the same processes. Some people are more or less efficient or have different builds, train differently, eat differently, are exposed to different chemicals, etc. Those variables change outcomes. I'd say the biggest one is genetics. We have genes that code for everything... so there are variances in all the processes of the body. Yes we all have the same bones, muscles etc... but look how different the bones can be, such as the head/angle of head on the femurs of different people, or the depth/stability of various joints in different people. When we are talking supplements, I think there is a lot of variance in "what works"... when it comes to training, I think there is a lot more cut and dry... but it also comes down to difference in what you like, and what your personal goals are, and what type of training accomplishes what you want, which is what I think hurdlemaker is getting at...

Anyways, back to the discussion.
 
hurdlemaker

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Great answer, I don't have enough time to go into that kinda detail so thank you!
 
CountryLiftin

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Great answer, I don't have enough time to go into that kinda detail so thank you!
I study this crap everyday so I might have a little bit of an idea of the variances in the human body... haha. No problem.
 
Rodja

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Yes, yes it actually does. If you are trying to grow, lifting when sore is counterproductive. You grow when you REST. When I'm training to grow I won't have less than 5 days between doing the same muscle group. If you're lifting when sore it means you're muscles are still broken down from your previous training session and haven't rebuilt yet, this means you can actually shrink yourself by tearing more muscle fibers that aren't going to be able to repair themselves as they should.
DOMS has no bearing on recovery and whether or not you should train. The body is capable of so much more than 99% of the training population believes and it adapts very quickly. At most, 72 hours is needed for muscular recovery and increasing frequency will do two very important things: act as a catalyst for hypertrophy (whether it be myofibrillar or sarcoplasmic) and, just as importantly, it will improve work capacity. The higher your work capacity, the better your body is primed for increased recuperation and increased metabolic processes.
 

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DOMS has no bearing on recovery and whether or not you should train. The body is capable of so much more than 99% of the training population believes and it adapts very quickly. At most, 72 hours is needed for muscular recovery and increasing frequency will do two very important things: act as a catalyst for hypertrophy (whether it be myofibrillar or sarcoplasmic) and, just as importantly, it will improve work capacity. The higher your work capacity, the better your body is primed for increased recuperation and increased metabolic processes.
2nded and from my experiences also.
My worst cases have always been from squatting, hams and glutes, some quad (and especially from 20 reppers) to a point where the next few days, it would take me 10 minutes to bend over to pick up a pencil. By day 4 or so, I was pretty much fine.
 
CountryLiftin

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Every time you experience DOMS your body adapts and will heal more quickly/be able to better handle that same activity. At the same time studies say that to completely recover from functional and structural damage in DOMS (severe case I'm sure) can take 5-30 days. After that initial damage the body is more efficient/heals faster and that time is decreased. So for practical weightlifting purposes the DOMS most of us experience as regular weight lifters don't really affects us past 2-3 days at the worst. CNS recovery is another topic.
 
asooneyeonig

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this thread got awesome!
 
hurdlemaker

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People training for power and training for physique tackle it a little differently, because different training yields different results. Notice in my split I hit certain muscle groups every 72 hours. When I work chest my triceps and shoulders are also worked. When I work back my forearms and biceps are a very large part of the workout. Just because I only train chest once a week doesn't mean my training style is inferior. My chest is as big as I want it to be. I just don't bench every few days, that doesn't meet my goals. I probably bench press twice a month.
 

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