Push/pull/legs

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    Push/pull/legs


    Just want some opinions on my routine if it's to much to little swap exercises for another change reps or set range etc. my main goal is to build mass let me know what you guys think

    Push
    -Bench 4x8
    -Close grip bench 3x18
    -OHP 4x8
    -Dips 3x12
    -Rear delt flies 3x10
    -Skull crushers 3x10
    -Cable flies 3x12

    Pull
    -Deadlift 5x8
    -Chin-ups 3x12
    -Bent over rows 3x10
    -Upright cable rows 3x12
    -Preacher hammer curls 3x8
    -Facepulls 3x12
    -One arm dumbbell rows 3x10

    Legs
    -Back squats 3x16
    -Front squats 2x16
    -Standing one leg curls 3x16
    -Leg press 3x20
    -Seated leg curls 3x20
    -Leg extensions 3x20
    -Standing calf raises 3x16
    -Seated calf raises 3x16
    -Calf press on leg press machine 3x16

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    I do pull/push/legs because its hard on me to do deads and squats back to back
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    Quote Originally Posted by theOCdude View Post
    I do pull/push/legs because its hard on me to do deads and squats back to back
    good point I do a 5 day split right now and make sure my back and leg day aren't to close. Besides that do you think the routine looks ok?
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj123 View Post
    good point I do a 5 day split right now and make sure my back and leg day aren't to close. Besides that do you think the routine looks ok?
    Not back & legs... Deadlift & legs...
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    Are those just a list of exercises, or is that a W/O?
    Since it seems like you have some redundancy in the order and exercises for each day ie: BP's CGBP's Dips
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Are those just a list of exercises, or is that a W/O? Since it seems like you have some redundancy in the order and exercises for each day ie: BP's CGBP's Dips
    it's in no order right now just a sample if I did this then I would bench then close grip about two exercises after
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    Not back & legs... Deadlift & legs...
    are dead lifts main target not the lower back? I know they work out a lot more but I do them on my back day since that's my main target so yes back and legs
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    If I were to do this one the order would be more like this

    Push
    -Bench 4x8
    -Skull crushers 3x10
    -OHP 4x8
    -Close grip bench 3x8
    -Cable flies 3x12
    -Rear delt flies 3x10
    -Dips 3x12

    Pull
    -Deadlift 5x8
    -Chin-ups 3x12
    -Bent over rows 3x10
    -Upright cable rows 3x12
    -Preacher hammer curls 3x8
    -Facepulls 3x12
    -One arm dumbbell rows 3x10

    Legs
    -Back squats 3x16
    -Front squats 2x16
    -Standing one leg curls 3x16
    -Leg press 3x20
    -Seated leg curls 3x20
    -Leg extensions 3x20
    -Standing calf raises 3x16
    -Seated calf raises 3x16
    -Calf press on leg press machine 3x16
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    Push
    - Flat Bench 4x8-12
    - Incline Bench 4x8-12
    - DB Bench 4x8-12
    - OHP 4x8-12
    - Lateral Raises 3xFailure

    Pull
    - Chin-ups 4x8-12
    - Bent over rows 4x8-12
    - V Bar Pulldowns 4x8-12
    - Seated Cable Rows 4x8-12
    - Deadlift 5x5
    - Facepulls 3x12
    - Rear Delt Fly 3x12

    Legs
    - Back Squats 4x8-12
    - Leg Press 4x8-12
    - Leg Extensions 3xFailure
    - Standing Leg Curls 3xFailure
    - Seated Leg Curls 3xFailure
    - Standing calf raises 3xFailure
    - Seated calf raises 3xFailure

    Just add triceps to push day & biceps to pull day...
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj123 View Post
    are dead lifts main target not the lower back? I know they work out a lot more but I do them on my back day since that's my main target so yes back and legs
    Deadlifts are primarily for legs... Hamstrings & glutes... Your back really only assists the top of the movement...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    Deadlifts are primarily for legs... Hamstrings & glutes... Your back really only assists the top of the movement...
    i think it all depends how heavy you go and variation if I'm maxing out then I use more legs but if I'm repping I would consider it more lower back
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj123 View Post
    If I were to do this one the order would be more like this

    Push
    -Bench 4x8
    -Skull crushers 3x10
    -OHP 4x8
    -Close grip bench 3x8
    -Cable flies 3x12
    -Rear delt flies 3x10
    -Dips 3x12

    Pull
    -Deadlift 5x8
    -Chin-ups 3x12
    -Bent over rows 3x10
    -Upright cable rows 3x12
    -Preacher hammer curls 3x8
    -Facepulls 3x12
    -One arm dumbbell rows 3x10

    Legs
    -Back squats 3x16
    -Front squats 2x16
    -Standing one leg curls 3x16
    -Leg press 3x20
    -Seated leg curls 3x20
    -Leg extensions 3x20
    -Standing calf raises 3x16
    -Seated calf raises 3x16
    -Calf press on leg press machine 3x16
    Take the Skull Crushers and Hammer Curls out from in between "big" lifts. You limit your strength potential when you exhaust a portion of the movers of a compound lift. Unless of course that is your goal, to pre-exhaust your smaller muscles.

    A push/pull split I have had a lot of success with lately since starting it a year and half ago looks like this:

    DAY 1
    Bench Press
    Bent Over Overhand Grip Rows
    Incline DB Press
    Reverse Flys
    Incline Flys
    Face Pulls
    Dips
    Suitcase Rows

    DAY 2
    RDLs
    Standing Calf Raises
    Cable Hamstring Curls
    Seated Barbell Calf Raises
    Nordics/Russian Hamstring Curls
    Leg Press Calf Raises

    DAY 3
    OHP
    Chin Ups
    Lateral Raises
    DB Rows
    DB Shoulder Press
    Underhand Grip Pull Downs

    DAY 4
    Squats/Deadlifts (Depending recovery time from previous workout)
    Leg Press Calf Raises
    Leg Press
    Seated Calf Raises
    Leg Extensions
    Smith Machine Calf Raises
    Smith Machine Hack Squats
    Standing One Leg DB Calf Raises

    These are just examples to give you an idea. I'm usually in a 5x5 mode since my goal is mostly strength, mostly. But I have seen size from this routine as well. Rest is a subjective thing, but I usually am able to follow this type of routine 4 to 5 days a week, every once in a while if I'm feeling good I'll get 6 days. I'm a home gym guy so equipment is some what limited, but this split has worked well. I'll superset my push/pull and then do sprints, shuttle runs, burpees, what ever to skyrocket my heart rate for HIIT. My wife has been pretty happy with results so I know it's working.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rj123 View Post
    i think it all depends how heavy you go and variation if I'm maxing out then I use more legs but if I'm repping I would consider it more lower back
    Not a lower back exercise...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    Push
    - Flat Bench 4x8-12
    - Incline Bench 4x8-12
    - DB Bench 4x8-12
    - OHP 4x8-12
    - Lateral Raises 3xFailure

    Pull
    - Chin-ups 4x8-12
    - Bent over rows 4x8-12
    - V Bar Pulldowns 4x8-12
    - Seated Cable Rows 4x8-12
    - Deadlift 5x5
    - Facepulls 3x12
    - Rear Delt Fly 3x12

    Legs
    - Back Squats 4x8-12
    - Leg Press 4x8-12
    - Leg Extensions 3xFailure
    - Standing Leg Curls 3xFailure
    - Seated Leg Curls 3xFailure
    - Standing calf raises 3xFailure
    - Seated calf raises 3xFailure

    Just add triceps to push day & biceps to pull day...
    The reason I asked is, it seems like you are trying to do the entire weeks pressing in 1 day, then same with pulling then legs, instead fo spreading out say BP's then dips in 2 differing ways!?
    Not sure who's actual layout this is, but it seem to me (I'm older school lifting) to ring of overtraining on one set of muscles one day, then undertraining the same groups by waiting an entire week to train them again!?

    Can someone enlighten me, as to this approach being more efficient than a standard split?

    And bent leg deads are certainly an upper, lower back, hips and leg, exercise, (pretty much the entire body can feel something from these) especially if you are using upwards of 1 1/2x+ BW
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    The reason I asked is, it seems like you are trying to do the entire weeks pressing in 1 day, then same with pulling then legs, instead fo spreading out say BP's then dips in 2 differing ways!? Not sure who's actual layout this is, but it seem to me (older school) to ring of overtraining on one set of muscles one day, then undertraining the same groups by waiting an entire week to train them again!? Can someone enlighten me, as to this approach being more efficient than a standard split?
    I'm not a fan of once a week stimulation for a muscle. It leans more towards fatigue tolerance than actual hypertrophy or strength increases.

    Also, FFS, will someone please point out that knee flexion is a poor way to train the hamstrings.
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    yea i got this

    knee flexion just blows for everything
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post

    The reason I asked is, it seems like you are trying to do the entire weeks pressing in 1 day, then same with pulling then legs, instead fo spreading out say BP's then dips in 2 differing ways!?
    Not sure who's actual layout this is, but it seem to me (I'm older school lifting) to ring of overtraining on one set of muscles one day, then undertraining the same groups by waiting an entire week to train them again!?

    Can someone enlighten me, as to this approach being more efficient than a standard split?

    And bent leg deads are certainly an upper, lower back, hips and leg, exercise, (pretty much the entire body can feel something from these) especially if you are using upwards of 1 1/2x+ BW
    This is just his "routine" cut down... There is no structure to it... I figured if OP was going to use his anyway then this is how I'd do it... I personally train full body... 5x5 at the moment...
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    Problem these days is everyone thinks they have to lift like the pros to see any real gains... I see it at my gym everyday, & quite frankly have stopped trying to explain why they shouldn't be following the "pro" routines because it falls upon deaf ears...
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    Wait so is there something wrong with doing push/pull/legs or is this a decent way to do a 3 day split?
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    Wait so is there something wrong with doing push/pull/legs or is this a decent way to do a 3 day split?
    ppl is a good 3 day split if you're trying to maintain strength and mass but in my opinion if you're trying to gain you would have to do ppl rest ppl
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    Problem these days is everyone thinks they have to lift like the pros to see any real gains... I see it at my gym everyday, & quite frankly have stopped trying to explain why they shouldn't be following the "pro" routines because it falls upon deaf ears...
    Personally I found your split you layed as one I do all the time every week and no overtraining here. Sometimes I just train twice a week during my work weeks and I've lost no strength or over trained. A matter of fact a deadlift program with a 3 day split on Tnation is how I raised my dead from 405 to 565 in 1.5yrs. I just kept rotating it with my new max . Titled HOW TO INCREASE TO YOUR DEALDIFT IN 12 weeks!
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    Push - Flat Bench 4x8-12 - Incline Bench 4x8-12 - DB Bench 4x8-12 - OHP 4x8-12 - Lateral Raises 3xFailure Pull - Chin-ups 4x8-12 - Bent over rows 4x8-12 - V Bar Pulldowns 4x8-12 - Seated Cable Rows 4x8-12 - Deadlift 5x5 - Facepulls 3x12 - Rear Delt Fly 3x12 Legs - Back Squats 4x8-12 - Leg Press 4x8-12 - Leg Extensions 3xFailure - Standing Leg Curls 3xFailure - Seated Leg Curls 3xFailure - Standing calf raises 3xFailure - Seated calf raises 3xFailure Just add triceps to push day & biceps to pull day...
    I've done this for years and still do! No issues. Yes I change rotations, not caring what muscles are affected by any lift. Competed in 13 powerlifting comps in a 2.5 yr period and walked away with 1st every time and no injuries.
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    Quote Originally Posted by HokiePride View Post

    I've done this for years and still do! No issues. Yes I change rotations, not caring what muscles are affected by any lift. Competed in 13 powerlifting comps in a 2.5 yr period and walked away with 1st every time and no injuries.
    I was referring to people just starting out... I should have specified...
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    I thought push pull legs was laid out push/rest/pull/rest/legs/rest/rest repeat no? Right now I'm doing a full body workout twice a week and trying to increase frequency to 3 days allowing my body to adapt to the increased work gradually but man I'm afraid the soreness is gonna **** up some of my sets. Some days I can work out great with soreness and progress in weight, reps etc. Other days its tough. I just try to listen to my body I guess
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    Quote Originally Posted by JD261985 View Post
    I thought push pull legs was laid out push/rest/pull/rest/legs/rest/rest repeat no? Right now I'm doing a full body workout twice a week and trying to increase frequency to 3 days allowing my body to adapt to the increased work gradually but man I'm afraid the soreness is gonna **** up some of my sets. Some days I can work out great with soreness and progress in weight, reps etc. Other days its tough. I just try to listen to my body I guess
    I think it should be "Heavy Push/ Heavy Pull/ Heavy Legs/ Rest/ Light Push/ Light Pull/ Light Legs/ Rest/ Repeat" or Full Body every second or third day...

    I'm doing the full body every 2 to 3 days... Working up to being able to do every second day... I'm getting use to the soreness & working through it... Granted something is sore all the time... Today is my back & quads that are sore... Yesterday was my chest...
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    Quote Originally Posted by BLaQz View Post
    I think it should be "Heavy Push/ Heavy Pull/ Heavy Legs/ Rest/ Light Push/ Light Pull/ Light Legs/ Rest/ Repeat" or Full Body every second or third day.
    Well, I disagree again and IMO if you do legs heavy on day 1, you would most likely only have gas or recovery in to do deads med to light the next W/O, then hit deads heavy the next pull day, the squats or legs lighter. ie; waving the intensity on the big lifts throughout the cycle. By your 3rd "heavy" day in a row, how hard are you really going to be able to hit it? Is not the pressing or what ever falls there going to suffer?
    Again, the above layout looks like you're trying to hit everything real hard in a few days, then backing off for the rest of the week, instead of having a slow progression and build up over weeks/months and thus less burnout and more gradual gaining.


    I was referring to people just starting out...
    Personally, I think more advanced men can get away with less frequent training, (because they are always closer to their potential and heavier 1 RM's), but IMO less advanced and or novice trainees will do better with more frequency and hitting (at least the smaller pressing muscles 2x+ per week.) I even think that is why Wendler revised his 531 a bit. Since it was not the greatest for pressing cycles.

    *** IMHO, novices and intermeds can train more frequently because the loads they use are not in the areas that have to have 7 days recovery on a group.
    Again another vote for a standard proven 5x5 program (especially for the less trained/novice not as knowledgeable trainee or maybe 531 for someone looking for a strength program after sometime in, on a standard strength routine like a 5x5.
    The reason why simple routines are so successful, is because they work best for the masses on average and hit enough frequency and volume thru a training week.
    Nothing wrong with instinctive training or infrequent either, but IMO too, novices or intermeds do not do their best to reach top potential trying to make up their own programs or layouts or progressions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Well, I disagree again and IMO if you do legs heavy on day 1, you would most likely only have gas or recovery in to do deads med to light the next W/O, then hit deads heavy the next pull day, the squats or legs lighter. ie; waving the intensity on the big lifts throughout the cycle. By your 3rd "heavy" day in a row, how hard are you really going to be able to hit it? Is not the pressing or what ever falls there going to suffer?
    Again, the above layout looks like you're trying to hit everything real hard in a few days, then backing off for the rest of the week, instead of having a slow progression and build up over weeks/months and thus less burnout and more gradual gaining.




    Personally, I think more advanced men can get away with less frequent training, (because they are always closer to their potential and heavier 1 RM's), but IMO less advanced and or novice trainees will do better with more frequency and hitting (at least the smaller pressing muscles 2x+ per week.) I even think that is why Wendler revised his 531 a bit. Since it was not the greatest for pressing cycles.

    *** IMHO, novices and intermeds can train more frequently because the loads they use are not in the areas that have to have 7 days recovery on a group.
    Again another vote for a standard proven 5x5 program (especially for the less trained/novice not as knowledgeable trainee or maybe 531 for someone looking for a strength program after sometime in, on a standard strength routine like a 5x5.
    The reason why simple routines are so successful, is because they work best for the masses on average and hit enough frequency and volume thru a training week.
    Nothing wrong with instinctive training or infrequent either, but IMO too, novices or intermeds do not do their best to reach top potential trying to make up their own programs or layouts or progressions.
    In response to the first part - I don't do deads on pull day... I'd prefer it on a leg day...

    Second part - If you read back, I was also saying that novices need the frequency... 5x5 is what I would, & do recommend people do...

    All that aside, I did also say that OP probably wasn't going to really listen to anyone here, so I just simplified/organised the original mess that he posted & called it a day... As you see, OP isn't in this conversation right now... Meanwhile, your following a good structured routine(I assume), & I am following a great routine...
  

  
 

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