Bro science vs Science

[Hondaman722]

Just thought I'd share this thread

What did you do wrong and now you no better?

Do u remember some bro science mistakes you made?

What have you learned ?

Share!!

 

[6andaHalf]

There are no shortcuts. Period.

Muscle is a marathon and consistency/ working smart rules all.

 

[mtinsideout]

When I was younger I played video games and would spend a lot of time leveling up my character to make the game easier. Weight lifting is the same, you keep leveling up and the weights get easier but it takes time.

 

[PaulBlack]

My discovered secret, has for a long time now been...
Nothing replaces hard work and determination along with adding weight on a handful of big compound exercises, then eating.

Some stuff I think I had to un discover...
-Certain supplements are, well you know just money pits...
-Hitting a muscle from differing angles!? (Maybe a few different exercises but the size and shape is generally determined by your DNA, insertion points, muscle bellies, lengths etc. most of the time)
-Training very infrequently (I do not buy into having to wait 7-10 days for a muscle to recover, especially the smaller groups)
-Kneeling squats (ha ha/ahhhhh probably not really "bro" science per-se) I don't even think they do these at WSB anymore. I tried these once, and once was too much.
-Superslow (still not sold on this one and most likely never will be)
- Tons of Protein. (I use and eat it, but not to some of the extremes some might have you believe you need)
- Can't train until DOMS are gone. (It can be hard and they can hurt, but I am not sure how much of a marker these are to being fully recovered and able to train again!?)
- High reps do not translate to strength gains (maybe not exclusive singles, I'll buy that, or maybe one needs some break in period to get the CNS used to more lower rep power output, but 20 rep squats or deads, can bring up your 5 rep squat/dead IMHO and from my experience.
-Low reps do not work for building mass. (Meh, I think it comes down more to eating. Look at some oly lifters who never do more than x3's x2's x1's, some of those guys are pretty thickly muscled.)
-Genetics are the be all end all to building a good booody. (I know genetics are going to be a factor, but so is willingness to get your hands dirty and have a never say quit mentality. Give me a guy to train with, who is ecto and willing to get real uncomfortable, over a meso who dabbles and bull****z any day of the week.

 

[Hondaman722]

There are no shortcuts. Period. Muscle is a marathon and consistency/ working smart rules all.

True, thanks for your comment

 

[Hondaman722]

When I was younger I played video games and would spend a lot of time leveling up my character to make the game easier. Weight lifting is the same, you keep leveling up and the weights get easier but it takes time.

True, well said, thanks for the response

 

[Hondaman722]

My discovered secret, has for a long time now been... Nothing replaces hard work and determination along with adding weight on a handful of big compound exercises, then eating. Some stuff I think I had to un discover... -Certain supplements are, well you know just money pits... -Hitting a muscle from differing angles!? (Maybe a few different exercises but the size and shape is generally determined by your DNA, insertion points, muscle bellies, lengths etc. most of the time) -Training very infrequently (I do not buy into having to wait 7-10 days for a muscle to recover, especially the smaller groups) -Kneeling squats (ha ha/ahhhhh probably not really "bro" science per-se) I don't even think they do these at WSB anymore. I tried these once, and once was too much. -Superslow (still not sold on this one and most likely never will be) - Tons of Protein. (I use and eat it, but not to some of the extremes some might have you believe you need) - Can't train until DOMS are gone. (It can be hard and they can hurt, but I am not sure how much of a marker these are to being fully recovered and able to train again!?) - High reps do not translate to strength gains (maybe not exclusive singles, I'll buy that, or maybe one needs some break in period to get the CNS used to more lower rep power output, but 20 rep squats or deads, can bring up your 5 rep squat/dead IMHO and from my experience. -Low reps do not work for building mass. (Meh, I think it comes down more to eating. Look at some oly lifters who never do more than x3's x2's x1's, some of those guys are pretty thickly muscled.) -Genetics are the be all end all to building a good booody. (I know genetics are going to be a factor, but so is willingness to get your hands dirty and have a never say quit mentality. Give me a guy to train with, who is ecto and willing to get real uncomfortable, over a meso who dabbles and bull****z any day of the week.

Good post, thanks for the response

 

[Tomahawk88]

BS: Volume>Intensity

 

[keithgeiling]

My discovered secret, has for a long time now been... Nothing replaces hard work and determination along with adding weight on a handful of big compound exercises, then eating. Some stuff I think I had to un discover... -Certain supplements are, well you know just money pits... -Hitting a muscle from differing angles!? (Maybe a few different exercises but the size and shape is generally determined by your DNA, insertion points, muscle bellies, lengths etc. most of the time) -Training very infrequently (I do not buy into having to wait 7-10 days for a muscle to recover, especially the smaller groups) -Kneeling squats (ha ha/ahhhhh probably not really "bro" science per-se) I don't even think they do these at WSB anymore. I tried these once, and once was too much. -Superslow (still not sold on this one and most likely never will be) - Tons of Protein. (I use and eat it, but not to some of the extremes some might have you believe you need) - Can't train until DOMS are gone. (It can be hard and they can hurt, but I am not sure how much of a marker these are to being fully recovered and able to train again!?) - High reps do not translate to strength gains (maybe not exclusive singles, I'll buy that, or maybe one needs some break in period to get the CNS used to more lower rep power output, but 20 rep squats or deads, can bring up your 5 rep squat/dead IMHO and from my experience. -Low reps do not work for building mass. (Meh, I think it comes down more to eating. Look at some oly lifters who never do more than x3's x2's x1's, some of those guys are pretty thickly muscled.) -Genetics are the be all end all to building a good booody. (I know genetics are going to be a factor, but so is willingness to get your hands dirty and have a never say quit mentality. Give me a guy to train with, who is ecto and willing to get real uncomfortable, over a meso who dabbles and bull****z any day of the week.

Great post.. I think many would agree with what you have to say!!

 

[jmiyamoto]

mistakes I've made in the past:

- underestimating how many calories I needed

- lifting heavier than I needed to (like, sets of 3 reps and ****.)

 

[PumpHouse]

Not sticking to a program long enough.

Not having a goal in mind. Set one goal and work on achieving that.

Not caring about strength.

Not eating enough.

All bullcrap that kept me from being the bet I could be.

 

[Sean1332]

It took me up until last year to realize it:

-Screw eating 6x a day
-Ronnie Coleman's 6 day split that you decided to add even more volume into it, is most likely not for you
-No need for excessive protein..now, there's days I don't even touch protein powder
-Missing a session won't ruin your gains
-I stopped "arm days" and replaced it with heavy back work and 1 curl exercise and my arms (and back) grew
-You won't ruin your gains because you didn't bring a scoop of protein to the gym for your immediate post workout anabolic window
-Hydroslate ultra super dooper protein is the same to me as whatever protein is on sale
-lol @ all the different $45 preworkouts and creatine the juicehead sold me, thinking that it would make the difference in everything
-lol @ fumbling through your calorie counter app trying to find the meal with the best macros at Applebee's with your family sitting across the table from you
-For Mondays chest day you HAVE to hit flat, incline, decline, and 3 other angles of flys...the only thing you can rotate is whether it's barbells or dumbells, dumbells or cables.....**** that
-I went over two years without doing good mornings, stiff leggedr Romanian deadlifts, or even a ****in leg curl....who wants hamstrings? you can't see them in a mirror

I went off topic a bit...wasnt exactly bro vs science. I fell victim to all of this though

 

[ecto84]

- Super mega ultra mega pump preworkout supplements, are just all the same. You dont need them, just eat real food.
- The "6 meals per day", or you need protein every 3 hours or otherwise you will loose all your gains.
- Going to the gym without a preworkout meal is useless, you will become catabolic and your muscles will fall off. Bull****, i prefer to train fasted in the morning and I have better focus, state of mind, energy level.
- training with light weights and high rep count will make your muscles more defined. Nope. Loosing bodyfat will let you show defined muscularity/vascularity.
- squat for bigger arms (huge testosterone surge after training legs!!!). There is a surge of testosterone indeed, but it is so short lived that ends up doing nothing. Traing arms for bigger arms...
- having sex (with/without a partner) will make you loose muscle and lower your testosterone. Research shows just the opposite.
- if you stop training your muscles will turn to fat ....
- you can't get lean without cardio. People with bad diets always say this.

 

[Tomahawk88]

A lot of posts here are not clearly defined haha.

 

[Hondaman722]

mistakes I've made in the past: - underestimating how many calories I needed - lifting heavier than I needed to (like, sets of 3 reps and ****.)

Same here calorie wise, thanks for the response

 

[Hondaman722]

It took me up until last year to realize it: -Screw eating 6x a day -Ronnie Coleman's 6 day split that you decided to add even more volume into it, is most likely not for you -No need for excessive protein..now, there's days I don't even touch protein powder -Missing a session won't ruin your gains -I stopped "arm days" and replaced it with heavy back work and 1 curl exercise and my arms (and back) grew -You won't ruin your gains because you didn't bring a scoop of protein to the gym for your immediate post workout anabolic window -Hydroslate ultra super dooper protein is the same to me as whatever protein is on sale -lol @ all the different $45 preworkouts and creatine the juicehead sold me, thinking that it would make the difference in everything -lol @ fumbling through your calorie counter app trying to find the meal with the best macros at Applebee's with your family sitting across the table from you -For Mondays chest day you HAVE to hit flat, incline, decline, and 3 other angles of flys...the only thing you can rotate is whether it's barbells or dumbells, dumbells or cables.....**** that -I went over two years without doing good mornings, stiff leggedr Romanian deadlifts, or even a ****in leg curl....who wants hamstrings? you can't see them in a mirror I went off topic a bit...wasnt exactly bro vs science. I fell victim to all of this though

WOW Great response, very informative, great information and I learned something new, thanks!

 

[Hondaman722]

- Super mega ultra mega pump preworkout supplements, are just all the same. You dont need them, just eat real food. - The "6 meals per day", or you need protein every 3 hours or otherwise you will loose all your gains. - Going to the gym without a preworkout meal is useless, you will become catabolic and your muscles will fall off. Bull****, i prefer to train fasted in the morning and I have better focus, state of mind, energy level. - training with light weights and high rep count will make your muscles more defined. Nope. Loosing bodyfat will let you show defined muscularity/vascularity. - squat for bigger arms (huge testosterone surge after training legs!!!). There is a surge of testosterone indeed, but it is so short lived that ends up doing nothing. Traing arms for bigger arms... - having sex (with/without a partner) will make you loose muscle and lower your testosterone. Research shows just the opposite. - if you stop training your muscles will turn to fat .... - you can't get lean without cardio. People with bad diets always say this.

Great information, I'm glad I made this thread, can you elaborate on not training arms for big arms? Not sure what you mean, thanks for the response

 

[Tomahawk88]

Great information, I'm glad I made this thread, can you elaborate on not training arms for big arms? Not sure what you mean, thanks for the response

He is saying you have to train arms for them to grow. Another guy said don't train arms on their own day.

 

[ecto84]

The broscience is that if you squat like crazy your arms will grow bigger.

 

[Hondaman722]

He is saying you have to train arms for them to grow. Another guy said don't train arms on their own day.

Mis-read it, thanks pal

 

[Tomahawk88]

The broscience is that if you squat like crazy your arms will grow bigger.

And it is crap that if you don't train you legs you will still grow.

 

[Tomahawk88]

The broscience is that if you squat like crazy your arms will grow bigger.

And it is crap that if you don't train you legs you will still grow.

 

[ecto84]

Proof: There are those dudes with huge arms walking on thin sticks.

 

[Hondaman722]

And it is crap that if you don't train you legs you will still grow.

True, a lot of my younger friends only train upper body and are reasonably big, still better to have a strong pair of legs and in proportion in my opinion, I seen my sprint speed go up from training legs heavy and getting stronger

 

[Tomahawk88]

Proof: There are those dudes with huge arms walking on thin sticks.

And who wants to be that guy? Haha

 

[Hondaman722]

And who wants to be that guy? Haha

90% of teenagers apparently lol

 

[Tomahawk88]

90% of teenagers apparently lol

You mean those idiots between the ages of 13 and 19?

 

[Hondaman722]

You mean those idiots between the ages of 13 and 19?

Something like that, just the un-educated

 

[ecto84]

We all wanted that big arms when we started. I squatted with hopes, until I realized

 

[Hondaman722]

We all wanted that big arms when we started. I squatted with hopes, until I realized

True it's all a learning curve, I just love training for training, specially noticing the athletic differences

 

[BLaQz]

You mean those idiots between the ages of 13 and 19?

Older than 19...

 

[Tomahawk88]

We all wanted that big arms when we started. I squatted with hopes, until I realized

How about you do an experiment and do absolutely no legs for a year.

 

[ecto84]

How about you do an experiment and do absolutely no legs for a year.

Oh no way, my arms will shrink )

 

[Montego1]

Must.....not.....comment.......SCIENCE EVIL!

 

[PaulBlack]

I can attest to my arms growing and having an okay BP without squatting, deadlifting or any direct leg work. BUT, my legs did NOT grow from doing upper body llifts either and I would attest to the fact, that my functional strength, fitness level and ability to load my spine and do heavier and heavier work all round only got better from the leg, hip and low back work.
WHen I tore a pec and had to quit BPing for a bit, I got into squatting and deads.
Honestly and not trying to be a smart ass, when I started a warehouse job with my good BP and strong arms, 2 guys who did not even lift weights, were kind of working circles around me lifting and throwing heavy stuff around. Until I started doing the leg work, it all kinda changed and I became one who they had to keep up with.

 

[Hondaman722]

I can attest to my arms growing and having an okay BP without squatting, deadlifting or any direct leg work. BUT, my legs did NOT grow from doing upper body llifts either and I would attest to the fact, that my functional strength, fitness level and ability to load my spine and do heavier and heavier work all round only got better from the leg, hip and low back work. WHen I tore a pec and had to quit BPing for a bit, I got into squatting and deads. Honestly and not trying to be a smart ass, when I started a warehouse job with my good BP and strong arms, 2 guys who did not even lift weights, were kind of working circles around me lifting and throwing heavy stuff around. Until I started doing the leg work, it all kinda changed and I became one who they had to keep up with.

Bet that felt good, love the functional strength and athleticism from training

 

[Hondaman722]

Must.....not.....comment.......SCIENCE EVIL!

I'm not sure what you mean lol, but I found the experimentation bro science and science, science won it for me, but everyone is different, what works for me isn't always going to work for everyone lol

 

[jmiyamoto]

- having sex (with/without a partner) will make you loose muscle and lower your testosterone. Research shows just the opposite.

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many people believe this.

 

[BLaQz]

WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too many people believe this.

Even if it was true, I love pu$$y WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY too much to care...

 

[Jiigzz]

A lot of posts here are not clearly defined haha.

I think alot of people are misinterpreting bro-science.

Noone states that you need a preworkout to prevent catabolism?

 

[ecto84]

I think alot of people are misinterpreting bro-science.

Noone states that you need a preworkout to prevent catabolism?

The bro-science myth for preworkout meals and 6x meals per day requirement state that you should never fall to a catabolic state, ever! Because you will loose muscle. Training without eating is even worse, you will loose more muscle.

The truth is that the body shifts from being anabolic to catabolic depending on blood glucose levels and stored glycogen availability. But this doesnt mean that the body will choose to burn muscle. Muscle is the last resort when it comes to using it for energy. If at the end of the day all the caloric maintenance requirements are met, you will not loose muscle, or if there is a caloric surplus, you will gain muscle.

 

[Jiigzz]

The bro-science myth for preworkout meals and 6x meals per day requirement state that you should never fall to a catabolic state, ever! Because you will loose muscle. Training without eating is even worse, you will loose more muscle.

The truth is that the body shifts from being anabolic to catabolic depending on blood glucose levels and stored glycogen availability. But this doesnt mean that the body will choose to burn muscle. Muscle is the last resort when it comes to using it for energy. If at the end of the day all the caloric maintenance requirements are met, you will not loose muscle, or if there is a caloric surplus, you will gain muscle.

I have literally never heard any reps state that a pre-workout will prevent catabolism, ever. lol.

Also, Catabolism involves excessive AMPK activation and not dependent glycogen levels. Low carbers, such as I used to be; have very little stored glycogen but yet are sufficiently able to activate Mtor (through Leucine and insulinogenic protein). At the end of the day, cells are in a constant state of flux between anabolism and catabolism but it is the net result that influences gains or loses.

 

[dds]

I do know a shaved head will add 40# to your SQT, 60# to your DL and 20# to the BP

 

[Tomahawk88]

I do know a shaved head will add 40# to your SQT, 60# to your DL and 20# to the BP

What if you combine the shaved head with a BEARD?

 

[rhoadx]

It took me up until last year to realize it:

-Screw eating 6x a day
-Ronnie Coleman's 6 day split that you decided to add even more volume into it, is most likely not for you
-No need for excessive protein..now, there's days I don't even touch protein powder
-Missing a session won't ruin your gains
-I stopped "arm days" and replaced it with heavy back work and 1 curl exercise and my arms (and back) grew
-You won't ruin your gains because you didn't bring a scoop of protein to the gym for your immediate post workout anabolic window
-Hydroslate ultra super dooper protein is the same to me as whatever protein is on sale
-lol @ all the different $45 preworkouts and creatine the juicehead sold me, thinking that it would make the difference in everything
-lol @ fumbling through your calorie counter app trying to find the meal with the best macros at Applebee's with your family sitting across the table from you
-For Mondays chest day you HAVE to hit flat, incline, decline, and 3 other angles of flys...the only thing you can rotate is whether it's barbells or dumbells, dumbells or cables.....**** that
-I went over two years without doing good mornings, stiff leggedr Romanian deadlifts, or even a ****in leg curl....who wants hamstrings? you can't see them in a mirror

I went off topic a bit...wasnt exactly bro vs science. I fell victim to all of this though

^^^^ YESSS! smartest thing 'ive read in a long time! great points man

 

[nicksox15]

What if you combine the shaved head with a BEARD?

Be ready to set Pr's daily!

 

[Tomahawk88]

Be ready to set Pr's daily!

Too bad my head is lumpy and I cant grow facial hair haha.

 

[nicksox15]

Lol, my head is lumpy too but mother nature is getting ready to make me shave the head! Beard is strong on this one though, although catching a few grays here and there

 

[Montego1]

I have literally never heard any reps state that a pre-workout will prevent catabolism, ever. lol.

Also, Catabolism involves excessive AMPK activation and not dependent glycogen levels. Low carbers, such as I used to be; have very little stored glycogen but yet are sufficiently able to activate Mtor (through Leucine and insulinogenic protein). At the end of the day, cells are in a constant state of flux between anabolism and catabolism but it is the net result that influences gains or loses.

Pre workouts prevent catabolism. Now you heard it but I was jking so I don't think it counts

 

[PaulBlack]

Pre workouts prevent catabolism. Now you heard it but I was jking so I don't think it counts

It's not a lie if you believe it Jerry