push/pull/legs

[nightmare1234]

routine :
LEGS/PUSH/PULL/REST/LEGS/PUSH/PULL

Legs (Quad/Ham/Calves):

power day:
Barbell Squats: 4x5-6/ 4x10 (hypertrophy day)
romanian deadlift: 4x8-10
walking lunge: 3x10-12
front squat :2x10
Hamstring Curls (circuit machine):4x10-12
Standing Calf Raises (circuit machine): 5x15


power day:
Flat Barbell Bench Press: 3x5 / 3x10 (hypertrophy day)
Incline Barbell Bench Press: 4x10
Seated (or Standing) Barbell Shoulder: 3x10-12
incline dumbbell fly - 3x15
Dips lean forward : 1xmax
Dumbbell Side Lateral Raise: 3x10-12
Rope Pushdowns (circuit machine): 3x10-12
Overhead Dumbbell Extension or similar triceps exercise: 3x10-12

Pull (Back/Biceps):

power day :
reverse grip row: 5x5/ 5x10-12 (hypertrophy day)
Lat Pulldowns with (Long Bar or V-bar) (circuit machine): 3x8-10
Seated Rows with cables - : 3x8-10
dumbbell row one hand 2x15
Face-pulls: 3x-10-12
Shrugs(circuit machine or dumbbells): 3x10-12
Barbell Bicep Curls : 3x-10-12
(typically Hammer Curls): 3x10-12

the goal is lean mass as fast as possible what do u guys think about this program ?
two workout with every body part for strengh and the next week two workoute with every body part for hyp
(one week strengh and one for hype)
and after 4 weeks deload
what do u guys think about this program ?

 

[6andaHalf]

Do you have a rest day after the 2nd PULL day? Or go right back into legs on day 8?

Also, are you saying you rotate strength and hypertrophy every other workout?

I used to do a 4 day cycle just like it. Actually, I've gone back into it recently. I really liked it for mass. Your volume looks decent, almost on the high side but your joints will tell you if its too much. I had to lower my volume a bit from lifting heavy. I was also using cluster training which is pretty taxing.

 

[nightmare1234]

i do it like that :
legs/push/pull/rest/repeat
the main thing i want to check is if it is good to rotate between strengh and hypertrophy for mass purpose or just do hypertrophy
and the second question is if should i do it every other workoute or every week .
more opinions guys ?

 

[6andaHalf]

If mass is your main goal then I'd stick with the hypertrophy until you see a diminish in returns. There is no "right" rep range for all out mass. You want to make sure you explore all three general ranges (ex. 1-6, 7-12, 12+) not exact but...
Some people find it best to rotate them each session but I tend more to focus on one range until my progress stalls, then I switch and increase weight from the last time I was in that specific range.

Just make sure not to discount any ranges because they can all help you in gaining mass. Even the 15ish rep range... and its more painful that all of them haha

 

[nightmare1234]

ty very much
but i think if u will not do one week hyp and one strengh u will not keep progrresive with more and more weight on the bar and this is the most important dont u think ?

 

[6andaHalf]

ty very much
but i think if u will not do one week hyp and one strengh u will not keep progrresive with more and more weight on the bar and this is the most important dont u think ?

As long you as you have progressive load, either way can be effective. I personally feel its easy to get lost in a steady progressive load when you change your rep ranges every workout.

I'm not saying if you don't change rep ranges from week to week that you stay the same weight. You still increase weight once you have achieved your goal weight for "x" amount of reps on your last set.

 

[PaulBlack]

but i think if u will not do one week hyp and one strengh u will not keep progrresive with more and more weight on the bar

No, where did you read/find that?

6'6" has a point.
There is not such a great or specific difference in mass gaining and power & strength gaining, unless you go to very low reps (1-3) to work almost exclusively for peaking 1RM strength.
A good 5x5 program, can put on as much mass and great strength for the average guy as most any routine and they are easy to follow and stick with. Most likely why most are quite successful with them. There is no need to alter or change them.
EATING, is also a very big marker in how much mass you are gong to put on in a certain period.

The problem with changing weekly the rep layouts etc. is you have no real gauge of progression and it can sometimes be a false feeling of gains, since if you up the weight, but lower reps and or sets, you are not necessarily getting stronger. Which has a good correlation with size if eating properly.
Slowly adding weight over a cycle to the 5-7 big compound exercises (6-10 weeks say) and using say a standard rep scheme work, because it teaches the individual to be consistent, learn how their body responds and focuses on a simple straight forward progression plan.

 

[nightmare1234]

ok man ty ,
i dont like all these 5 reps i have tried them for some months and really it was the only time i really didnt get mass at all ,
so i will stick with the 8 reps range and will increase it in a rep every time

 

[PaulBlack]

8-10-12 reps are fine if that is what you prefer. The bottom line to gaining size and strength, is going to be adding weight to the bar when you can. That is the marker to gauge your strength and thus growth.
Again, you have to eat well to elicit that growth.

 

[nightmare1234]

i get about 2 lbs every month

 

[snyderd1972]

No, where did you read/find that?

6'6" has a point.
There is not such a great or specific difference in mass gaining and power & strength gaining, unless you go to very low reps (1-3) to work almost exclusively for peaking 1RM strength.
A good 5x5 program, can put on as much mass and great strength for the average guy as most any routine and they are easy to follow and stick with. Most likely why most are quite successful with them. There is no need to alter or change them.
EATING, is also a very big marker in how much mass you are gong to put on in a certain period.

The problem with changing weekly the rep layouts etc. is you have no real gauge of progression and it can sometimes be a false feeling of gains, since if you up the weight, but lower reps and or sets, you are not necessarily getting stronger. Which has a good correlation with size if eating properly.
Slowly adding weight over a cycle to the 5-7 big compound exercises (6-10 weeks say) and using say a standard rep scheme work, because it teaches the individual to be consistent, learn how their body responds and focuses on a simple straight forward progression plan.

Op this is good advice and you could add in an Isolation movement or 2 to satisfy your higher rep needs. Heavy weights lower reps compound movements are going to gain you the most mass.

Keep a training log and add weight to the bar every week you will get bigger.

 

[6andaHalf]

i get about 2 lbs every month

Two pounds a month is about the max for muscle increases (naturally) once you establish noob gains. Its a long, long process. If you gain more than a pound a week you are surely gaining fat unless you are just stating out. Just stay consistent and EAT.

 

[snyderd1972]

Op how long have you been training and how much mass have you put on since you started?

 

[JD261985]

In about 12 weeks I'm gonna start a push/pull/legs routine alternating strength and hypertrophy rep ranges every other week except mine is a bit different . I'm doing push/rest/pull/rest/legs/rest/rest and then repeat

 

[nightmare1234]

but what about the weight of water glycogen and some fat ?

 

[PaulBlack]

i get about 2 lbs every month

=#24 in a year, which is pretty good. Try and sit down and eat #24 pounds of meat.

"Lean" mass gains, in a year on average are #5-#10. That is quite good for a natty.

 

[nightmare1234]

so how much weight should i gain every month ?
i have trained for a year now but really bad routine very bad nutrition
routine: didnt do any compound except bench press and most was machine
nutrition : maybe 30 grams of protein a good day
i got 20 lbs and got from 1o body fat to 13 something like that i am not sure and i was very tiny very very hhahh
so how weight should i aim to get every month ?

 

[6andaHalf]

so how much weight should i gain every month ?
i have trained for a year now but really bad routine very bad nutrition
routine: didnt do any compound except bench press and most was machine
nutrition : maybe 30 grams of protein a good day
i got 20 lbs and got from 1o body fat to 13 something like that i am not sure and i was very tiny very very hhahh
so how weight should i aim to get every month ?

Gain no more that a pound a week. I'd stick with closer to what you have been getting already, 2lbs a month

 

[nightmare1234]

2 lbs include the water fats and glycogen right?
and about increasing the weight i lift only in the compound and the first exersice only
and for the others exersice just will try different reps and get to almost failure but the first compound is the one i increase weight right ?

 

[snyderd1972]

2 lbs include the water fats and glycogen right?
and about increasing the weight i lift only in the compound and the first exersice only
and for the others exersice just will try different reps and get to almost failure but the first compound is the one i increase weight right ?

Try to increase weights on all excercises but your workout should be centered around compound movements.

 

[nightmare1234]

ok i will try ty man

 

[6andaHalf]

2 lbs include the water fats and glycogen right?
and about increasing the weight i lift only in the compound and the first exersice only
and for the others exersice just will try different reps and get to almost failure but the first compound is the one i increase weight right ?

I mean 2 lbs total, on the scale. Weigh yourself at the same time of day each time. You always weight more in the pm fyi.

The goal with the weight increases is gradual progressive load across the board, not just one exercise. I'd use 5 lb weighs to increase compounds and 2.5 lb weights for iso stuff. You will not ALWAYS progress up in weight every week. Progress gets harder as you train.

Ex. If you are doing a particular compound to failure @ 8 reps, wait until you can hit 10+ reps and then up it. The 10 more pounds added should put you back around the 8ish rep range. From there, you can then get back up 10 reps with that increased weight and up it again. So on and so on for 8-12 weeks OR until progress stops. Then you change up the routine to something else which incorporates progressive load. Perhaps a lower or higher rep scheme or maybe even different lifts all together. Just be sure to keep things the same long enough for your body to recognize the motions, adapt to the increases in weight and overcome the goal. Don's change stuff too often or you will not progress.

 

[nightmare1234]

ty very much u helped me alot

 

[6andaHalf]

Thats what the "reputation" button is for haha.

You're welcome man. Train hard and good luck

 

[nightmare1234]

i am sorry dor digging but in your workout on the compound exercise do u change weight every set ? or stay the same for all the sets and same ? ?

 

[6andaHalf]

To keep things simple for you I would keep weight the same. Judge how many reps you are able to accomplish by how many you can do on the last set of that particular exercise. Once you can achieve your goal reps for all sets then up the weight and start again.

 

[nightmare1234]

ok i got it but than i will not get every set the max i can get from it i will get the goods in the last set

 

[JD261985]

I like push pull legs and full body workouts because for some reason whenever I do shoulder presses my back gets sore as ****. Always forces me to take an extra day off unless I decide to minimize recovery that day

 

[6andaHalf]

Yea, dont go to failure every set. You will hurt yourself.

Good luck

 

[nightmare1234]

hi guy just have readen something recently about supercompensation that if u rest more than 72 hours from the last workout on the same muscle u will not get strengh and there willnot be supercompensation ,
what i do is p/p/l/rest/repeat what mean that i have 96 hours rest from push a to push b that is too much for cause to supercompensation ,
this is how its looking :

http://www.21zenturyhealth.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/Supercompensation-curve-22.jpg

so i am confused i dont like to change routine every month :S
in the research and article people shouldnt rest too much but in the reality people do it and get alot of muscle ,
but maybe i could get better ?
please help !!

 

[6andaHalf]

Don't overcomplicate stuff man. Rest time all depends how intensely you lift and what volume you do.

Just make a program that we have all discussed in this thread, and stick with it.

 

[nightmare1234]

i really dont want to overcomplicate stuff but in theory i will not be able to get muscle and strengh from 96 hours between push A to push B as u can see in the site i posted before ,
as u know no one want to train and train and eat good but in reaility it isnt in the right way and no succesfull
did u see the link i posted ? after 96 hours the strengh u got are losed

 

[6andaHalf]

Then stop reading it and lift.

Dude, reading one website that has some cookie cutter hour countdown until your strength and gains are gone is ridiculous. Some people lift on one group a week and see results, including myself in the past. Stop confusing yourself. You will be far more informed in a trial and error of personal experience.

If you think you resting too long for 3 days then you aren't lifting hard enough.

 

[nightmare1234]

ok man ty