thicker back - AnabolicMinds.com - Page 2

thicker back

Page 2 of 2 First 12
  1. Diamond Member
    Sean1332's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  217 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    11,297
    Rep Power
    2311431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've never understood the love of deads for back purposes. There's not enough TUT and they encompass for more than just the erectors. Now, snatch-grip deads on the other hand, would be a better option as they put the upper back at a point where it's leverage is terrible and blasts the hell out of the upper and middle traps.
    Agreed. Especially with snatch-grip, though they murder my entire posterior.

    I never understood deadlifts on "back day".
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    sean@ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  2. Elite Member
    CountryLiftin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,100
    Rep Power
    702575

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I never understood "back-day".
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
  3. New Member
    lannjonny's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    323
    Rep Power
    25174

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've never understood the love of deads for back purposes. There's not enough TUT and they encompass for more than just the erectors. Now, snatch-grip deads on the other hand, would be a better option as they put the upper back at a point where it's leverage is terrible and blasts the hell out of the upper and middle traps.
    I guess if you'd neglected your back as much as i did in my younger years than you'd know why i do lots of deads now in my back workout. I always thought it sucked working back out back than, but now its turned into my favorite workout.
    •   
       

  4. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,995
    Rep Power
    917961

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by lannjonny View Post
    I guess if you'd neglected your back as much as i did in my younger years than you'd know why i do lots of deads now in my back workout. I always thought it sucked working back out back than, but now its turned into my favorite workout.
    However, it's very shortsighted to view deadlifts as a back exercise. A PC chain exercise, yes, but not simply a "back" exercise.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  5. Diamond Member
    Sean1332's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  217 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    11,297
    Rep Power
    2311431

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Thick back = Hit a compound back movement for 5 sets, 3x a week. Done.
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    sean@ControlledLabs.com
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.
  6. New Member
    lannjonny's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    323
    Rep Power
    25174

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post

    However, it's very shortsighted to view deadlifts as a back exercise. A PC chain exercise, yes, but not simply a "back" exercise.
    Yes i understand. I am implementing it in my workout and probly always will. Because it is definitely helping me create a back that i want.
  7. New Member
    lannjonny's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    323
    Rep Power
    25174

    Reputation

    [QUOTE="lannjonny;4284861"]

    Yes i understand. And i am not throwing away your advice. but I am implementing it in my workout and probly always will do a few sets of deads each time Because it is definitely helping me create a back that i want.
  8. New Member
    lannjonny's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    323
    Rep Power
    25174

    Reputation

    Ok so i ddnt mean to doub post
  9. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've never understood the love of deads for back purposes. There's not enough TUT and they encompass for more than just the erectors. Now, snatch-grip deads on the other hand, would be a better option as they put the upper back at a point where it's leverage is terrible and blasts the hell out of the upper and middle traps.
    When I do rack pulls I do a lot more sets than when I do deads off the floor, and also use heavier weight, so the volume is generally more than a regular deadlift workout. That said, my back isn't anything spectacular. My partner on the other hand has really focused on rack pulls and it shows. But he put in a lot of effort to get his pulls over 600. I kind of doubt anyone could do that without adding some muscle.
  10. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,995
    Rep Power
    917961

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    I've seen many a 600+lb pullers in my life and they will all have thick traps and erectors, but not as much thickness in the lats as you would think.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  11. New Member
    lannjonny's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  170 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2013
    Posts
    323
    Rep Power
    25174

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've seen many a 600+lb pullers in my life and they will all have thick traps and erectors, but not as much thickness in the lats as you would think.

    I am doing alot of chins (wide and narrow) and rows (barbell rows are hard for me and i find myself doing more db rows) and my lats are visually growing from week to week along with my traps and erectors.. but the insane growth rate is due to what i said earlier bout my former neglect. I am not atall concerned about an insane max, rather im looking for an aesthetically pleasing look. My tune has changed from when i was younger. Back than a rarely worked it out and when i did i always went frikn heavy and screwd my back up. Lol not sure now wut all this had to do with your comment..
  12. New Member
    wrathman10's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  180 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2013
    Posts
    96
    Rep Power
    380

    Reputation

    Reverse grip lay pull down on an easy bar.
  13. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Believe it or not, rack pulls or block pulls can be more difficult than off the ground. Some people have sticking points just below their knees, where the bar would be set up on the rack, so it can be just as/if not more difficult. It's an akward leverage for some people. It will heavily involve your glutes. Once you've been able I blast through that point, it'll benefit your full ROM deadlift, and you'll be able to pull more from the rack because if the decreased ROM. You may want to try them off blocks, or stacked up weights, instead of the bar resting on the rack pins. The bar will have a more natural bend and liftoff from the blocks than the rack, thus making it slightly easier.

    I wouldn't expect rack pulls or deadlifts to benefit the back specifically for hypertrophy purposes in the way a type of row would. It'll help give you some thick erectors though.
    2 pasos...
    Agreed and another insightful post from this guy^. And this is what I was gonna get at with rack pullers who are looking to try to get width and or thickness from it. Agree with Rodja too.
    Sure you can use lots of weight with partials, especially up over the knees etc. but so can 99% of the lifters out there as the ROM is very short and is almost more a static strength builder.
    Nothing at all wrong with partials and what Sean mentions especially, but moreso, to build strength in the bad pulling leverages than giving them to someone wanting to build mass or size in the back. Otherwise, the biggest BBers would have been doing them in the glossies long ago and they were not really much of a staple.
    Anything from weighted chins, rows, pullovers, or more horizontal pulling with long flexion and extension in the back, is what made my back thicker and deeper and wider. Sure I got some good muscle from the deads, but the erectors and lumbars are not a super mass group anyway and personally I feel a fuller dead, even though weights used may be lighter than a partial rack pull (especially a real short ROM), will deliver more overall mass thru the entire body.
    Power shrugs help to build the upper traps mass, but again, you do not need huge weight to build mass, more reps and sets in fact, as most BB'ers would attest to.
    IMO, partials should be used as an adjunct and not necessarily a main movement, compared to the full compound.

    That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
  14. Elite Member
    CountryLiftin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,100
    Rep Power
    702575

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Do your regular deads and squats and don't be a pansy about them for adding mass to the whole body, then do a row, pull/chin-up, or another compound back movement for 5 sets 2-3 times a week as accessory. That's really all you need. Strong erectors and traps from the deads will give you more strength and stability to use to support more weight in movements like bent over rows, and get the rest of your back in shape. You need a base to build from. You also need every muscle in your back to be strong to keep your shoulders in position and your back flat, especially in the t spine. How do you keep flat and keep your shoulders neutral? With the same muscles you use to do a row.

    Here's a tnation article by Matt Kroc, take it for what it is, an article. Guy does have a little experience though:

    http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_...reaky_back&cr=


    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    2 pasos...
    Agreed and another insightful post from this guy^. And this is what I was gonna get at with rack pullers who are looking to try to get width and or thickness from it. Agree with Rodja too.
    Sure you can use lots of weight with partials, especially up over the knees etc. but so can 99% of the lifters out there as the ROM is very short and is almost more a static strength builder.
    Nothing at all wrong with partials and what Sean mentions especially, but moreso, to build strength in the bad pulling leverages than giving them to someone wanting to build mass or size in the back. Otherwise, the biggest BBers would have been doing them in the glossies long ago and they were not really much of a staple.
    Anything from weighted chins, rows, pullovers, or more horizontal pulling with long flexion and extension in the back, is what made my back thicker and deeper and wider. Sure I got some good muscle from the deads, but the erectors and lumbars are not a super mass group anyway and personally I feel a fuller dead, even though weights used may be lighter than a partial rack pull (especially a real short ROM), will deliver more overall mass thru the entire body.
    Power shrugs help to build the upper traps mass, but again, you do not need huge weight to build mass, more reps and sets in fact, as most BB'ers would attest to.
    IMO, partials should be used as an adjunct and not necessarily a main movement, compared to the full compound.

    That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
    This is pretty much more point of view.
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
  15. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    2 pasos...


    That all said, if I was going to look for mass from rack pull partials, I would perhaps do them for say multi sets (3-5) of higher reps, (8-10-12+) and go for a burnish hit.
    That's pretty much exactly how my partner went about it. His rack pull workouts have an insane amount of volume, I can't keep up. He will hit his top weight for 3-5 sets of 3-5 reps each, then pyramid back down. I've never counted but I think he'd probably come in around 15 sets total. I tried to do it that way a couple times but no way. He's also a decade younger than I am, 36 and 46 respectively.

    He was also hitting that workout a couple times a week, whereas I do 531 so I hit the sumo deads once a week & only do rack pulls on my deload week, so only once a month.
  16. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    I've seen many a 600+lb pullers in my life and they will all have thick traps and erectors, but not as much thickness in the lats as you would think.
    I think you're exactly right about that. My pal can get 600 lb for reps, but he struggles doing chinups. I got him working on it though.
  17. Senior Member
    PaulBlack's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  240 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2012
    Posts
    1,816
    Rep Power
    115625

    Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by compudog View Post
    but he struggles doing chinups. I got him working on it though.
    Good full Chinups/pullups (forehead below elbows) can be tough especially for bigger heavier guys. Still, they can be a good mass builder for a break from say other rowing motions, pull dwns, etc.
    Best way I learned to get volume from them is doing ladders. ie:
    3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1 add #5 to your body next week and keep digging.
    They can be just like any other exercise, so you can slowly add weight, even a #2 1/2 pounder a week, over a few months adds up.

    Lots of ways to set the counts up too...

    Week 1
    1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,3 = 22 total reps

    Week 2
    1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4, = 25 total

    and so on building volume...

    Differing the grips widths too.

    Search Clarence Bass chinups.
  18. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    Good full Chinups/pullups (forehead below elbows) can be tough especially for bigger heavier guys. Still, they can be a good mass builder for a break from say other rowing motions, pull dwns, etc.
    Best way I learned to get volume from them is doing ladders. ie:
    3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1,3,2,1 add #5 to your body next week and keep digging.
    They can be just like any other exercise, so you can slowly add weight, even a #2 1/2 pounder a week, over a few months adds up.

    Lots of ways to set the counts up too...

    Week 1
    1,2,3,2,1,2,3,2,1,2,3 = 22 total reps

    Week 2
    1,2,3,4,3,2,1,2,3,4, = 25 total

    and so on building volume...

    Differing the grips widths too.

    Search Clarence Bass chinups.
    Actually I'm bigger (heavier and taller) than he is and I can do chins just fine. Took a while though. And I actually hate them, but I still manage to squeeze out 50 a week or so.
  19. Elite Member
    CountryLiftin's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Sep 2010
    Posts
    5,100
    Rep Power
    702575

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by compudog View Post

    Actually I'm bigger (heavier and taller) than he is and I can do chins just fine. Took a while though. And I actually hate them, but I still manage to squeeze out 50 a week or so.
    How big are you guys? Definitely get him doing some rows and pull-ups. I prefer rows. His pull-ups will likely increase if he progresses on rows anyways.
    Log: http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/226478-country-gets-huge.html#post3905023
  20. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    22,995
    Rep Power
    917961

    Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation Reputation

    If he sucks at pull-ups, look into greasing the groove.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  21. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by CountryLiftin View Post
    How big are you guys? Definitely get him doing some rows and pull-ups. I prefer rows. His pull-ups will likely increase if he progresses on rows anyways.
    I'm around 215 (fat as a house), he's closer to 200. He's getting after the rows these days too. His bench is lagging and I told him, build those lats up if you want to bench big. I think he believed me, being as I bench about 60 lb more than he does
  22. Advanced Member
    compudog's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2011
    Age
    47
    Posts
    989
    Rep Power
    49954

    Reputation

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    If he sucks at pull-ups, look into greasing the groove.
    Thanks, that's a really helpful idea, new to me.
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. on winny and back sore
    By hamper19 in forum General Chat
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 09-07-2014, 03:36 AM
  2. Thicker/V Taper back
    By R1balla in forum Bulking
    Replies: 25
    Last Post: 02-17-2010, 09:41 AM
  3. Help me bring de "boys" back ! ZMA?
    By txwakeskater in forum Supplements
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 01-08-2003, 07:48 PM
  4. Ease back, 'cause HE'S BACK!!
    By bigpetefox in forum General Chat
    Replies: 16
    Last Post: 12-27-2002, 02:22 PM
  5. raybravo back !
    By raybravo in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 11-22-2002, 01:09 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in