Need some helping moving past useless training programs.. - AnabolicMinds.com

Need some helping moving past useless training programs..

  1. rosemont83's Avatar
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    Need some helping moving past useless training programs..


    Been getting these training programs from bb.com and I'm realizing they aren't the greatest and are just a front to sell supplements..
    I've tried the Kris Gethin 12 week trainer and was thinking about trying the stoppani 12 week shortcut to size..
    Then I did some research and yeah.. no bueno.
    Feel like I've wasted time following the step by steps.. Did get all of the noob progress that comes with getting back in the gym tho so water under the bridge anyways..

    My goals as always are to get big but not the nasty, fat big. The cut/lean/6 pack big..
    5'7 150lbs ~13% bf I believe..

    Does anyone have a suggestion as far as training programs or templates that I could just follow?
    Are following templates even effective?

    I was doing some reading today about the Layne Norton PHAT training protocol..
    Any good? One of the best? I'm ready to be 100% dedicated to getting down to the single digit body fat percentages..
    I know its going to be difficult especially with college work but someone throw me a bone!

  2. Sean1332's Avatar
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    Go for PHAT. Good stuff. Follow it how it's written. Not just as a "muscle split"

    No training program is the BEST. A program is only as good as you make it. It's your body.

    Others worth mentioning if you care about strength (you can still get big and ripped):
    5/3/1
    Starting Strength
    WSB4SB
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
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  3. OnionKnight's Avatar
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    ill add that you might need to dip into that "nasty fat" territory for a minute in your quest for the sexy bigness. dont be afraid to get a little chunky during winter
    •   
       

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    Pick a coach rather than a contributing author on a marketing website.

    A few plans have already been mentioned so if I overlap, my apologies.

    Madcow 5x5
    5 3 1
    The Texas Method to name a few.

    and a personal favorite for me is DoggCrapp. Not written by a coach but it works and it's also not a marketing ploy.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosemont83 View Post
    My goals as always are to get big but not the nasty, fat big. The cut/lean/6 pack big..
    5'7 150lbs ~13% bf I believe..
    First off this is more diet than program(s).
    Hitting the 5-7 compound exercises hard and heavy a few times per week and adding in some iso work afterwards will get 99% of the best, biggest, fastest muscle gains, most trainees are looking for.

    Does anyone have a suggestion as far as training programs or templates that I could just follow?
    Sean listed some. Any good 5x5 or a program that has you working hard with the big muscle groups and doing a lot of the work in compound fashion (not body parts) mostly standing, ie: squatting, deadlifting, rowing, OH pressing, benching, etc.
    I have seen guys set up programs where every exercise they do, is either sitting or laying. I am surprised they stay awake thur it...!
    Are following templates even effective?
    Good solid proven programs, are rarely if ever a fault in themselves. 99% of the time that a proven program fails, is in it's execution of the said program. Usually not wanting to give 110% to get results. (I think the bottom line here and the easiest to understand in getting big and strong, is progression/adding weight to the bar as often and as safely as you can. It is really that simple. Attitude determines altitude.
    Programs that sell supplements along the way, are not trying to get the attention of veterans or people who have some knowledge of good all round training programs. They want to latch on to the young neophyte and sell him soap. Or in this case, supps.
    If you have a crappie program set up, with crappie execution, while adding supplements, then you end up with a crappie supplemented and executed program.
  6. rosemont83's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Go for PHAT. Good stuff. Follow it how it's written. Not just as a "muscle split"

    No training program is the BEST. A program is only as good as you make it. It's your body.

    Others worth mentioning if you care about strength (you can still get big and ripped):
    5/3/1
    Starting Strength
    WSB4SB
    Quote Originally Posted by TexasGuy View Post
    Pick a coach rather than a contributing author on a marketing website.

    A few plans have already been mentioned so if I overlap, my apologies.

    Madcow 5x5
    5 3 1
    The Texas Method to name a few.

    and a personal favorite for me is DoggCrapp. Not written by a coach but it works and it's also not a marketing ploy.
    Quote Originally Posted by PaulBlack View Post
    First off this is more diet than program(s).
    Hitting the 5-7 compound exercises hard and heavy a few times per week and adding in some iso work afterwards will get 99% of the best, biggest, fastest muscle gains, most trainees are looking for.



    Sean listed some. Any good 5x5 or a program that has you working hard with the big muscle groups and doing a lot of the work in compound fashion (not body parts) mostly standing, ie: squatting, deadlifting, rowing, OH pressing, benching, etc.
    I have seen guys set up programs where every exercise they do, is either sitting or laying. I am surprised they stay awake thur it...!


    Good solid proven programs, are rarely if ever a fault in themselves. 99% of the time that a proven program fails, is in it's execution of the said program. Usually not wanting to give 110% to get results. (I think the bottom line here and the easiest to understand in getting big and strong, is progression/adding weight to the bar as often and as safely as you can. It is really that simple. Attitude determines altitude.
    Programs that sell supplements along the way, are not trying to get the attention of veterans or people who have some knowledge of good all round training programs. They want to latch on to the young neophyte and sell him soap. Or in this case, supps.
    If you have a crappie program set up, with crappie execution, while adding supplements, then you end up with a crappie supplemented and executed program.
    Thanks a bunch guys.. really insightful stuff..
    I really do like how the 5/3/1 looks using the 4 training day method and I also like the doggcrapp training method.. The only thing is the doggcrapp schedule is a bit confusing to understand..

    The Madcow 5x5 looks good but it looks more for powerlifting rather than physique enhancing and I would need to start with stronglifts 5x5 first so maybe in the future I might try that when I really plateau..

    Between the PHAT, 5/3/1, and the doggcrapp methods, I'm just wondering which would give the best gains, ceteris paribus, and assuming my diet is in check..
    What do you guys think?
    And thanks for all of the help and input..
  7. Sean1332's Avatar
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    No one is better than the other. The gains will be dependant on your diet and training efforts. Anyone of those routines, even one which looks like a powerlifting routine, will help you build muscle. Just because the main lifts are low repped, doesn't mean your additional work that day is. Vary your volume and intensity, have a diet that will make you grow, and you'll grow.


    You can incorporate 5/3/1 with some DC type rest-pause stuff after the '5/3/1' sets.

    So- just pick what routine looks the most intriguing to you, and do it.
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  8. TexasGuy's Avatar
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    Being honest with yourself about your level is awesome. Strong Lifts would be awesome Imo. Lay off on doggcrapp for a couple years if that's where you're at. I'd look at Strong Lifts or Starting Strength by Mark Rippetoe. Get your strenght up and then sculpt. Vince Gironda has a beginner bodybuilding program too. He's a huge name in bbing and has trained even bigger names but my vote is to build strength on compound lifts first.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    Anyone of those routines, even one which looks like a powerlifting routine, will help you build muscle. Just because the main lifts are low repped, doesn't mean your additional work that day is. Vary your volume and intensity, have a diet that will make you grow, and you'll grow.
    I think it may be surprising to some, but PL'ers or said PL type routines, will most likely add the most mass and strength to a lifters build.
    Even Arnold and Ronnie did the heavier big exercises, for lower reps and multi sets (4x6-8 and the likes. I am not talking about doing really low heavy singles or doubles, until more experience and the ability to have good control and form and stronger tendons and ligaments are achieved this is another reason for say a 5x5, to be pretty well proven) to add the most overall body mass. Of course BB'ers will dispute these routines, but some of the BB work, falls under doing stuff to "sculpt or more or less finish" or bring out the smaller muscles, of which most newbies and intermeds IMO, should most likely not be concerned with until a good foundation of mass on the big muscles, ie: legs, back, chest, shoulders is attained.
    As Sean again said, the routine that will produce the most, is the one you are willing to sweat and stay focused on, period. The "better or best" compound routine, is going to come from how bad you want to get bigger and stronger and what you are prepared to do, to get there. I think this can never be emphasized enough. It is as simple as, going in to the gym, lifting stuff today, go home and eat and rest. Then go in the next day or so and lift a little heavier, eat and rest again.
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    I switched from a terrible program I had come up with myself to the stronglifts 5x5 about 3 months ago due to some amazing advice from both Sean and Paul and I've never been happier with my training! I've been bumping up my lifts pretty much weekly! Also I've been eating like mad but super clean if I feel like I'm putting on bf I just add hiit training for 15-20mins after training till I'm happy again. Can't thank these guys enough for their advice on recommending a good 5x5
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    This is may sound crazy but I use the same one from college in the 1980s. You know three or four sets of 8-12 reps with progressive weight focusing on compound movements and isolation in-between to ward off premature fatigue. Plus thanks to advice from a gentleman here, Zid?, to alternate push with pull and up with down movements, etc.etc.
    Plus the amazing benefits in diet determination which has occurred in the ensuing decades.

    It has worked for me.
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    If you can understand DC and have experience in lifting and know your body, it'd a great great program.
    Hardcore Supps for the Hardcore Trainer
    Use Discount Code AM20 To Save 20% At www.ironflexsupps.com


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    I went with PHAT.. I'm logging it in a notebook..
    I'll probably be posting my first log in the training section real soon..
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    Hit Intensity Training, especially if you need an efficient workout.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post
    Hit Intensity Training, especially if you need an efficient workout.
    That seems a little redundant lol.

    High intensity training intensity training?
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    That seems a little redundant lol.

    High intensity training intensity training?



    Haha what?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomahawk88 View Post

    Haha what?
    Lol you said HIT Intensity Training, which sounds funny spelled out.

    "High Intensity Training Intensity Training"
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    Quote Originally Posted by jimbuick View Post
    Lol you said HIT Intensity Training, which sounds funny spelled out.

    "High Intensity Training Intensity Training"


    Haha now I get it. Must have started off with HIT but finished by writing it out. I will just blame my phone haha. When I first read what you wrote I thought you were drunk haha.
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    Quote Originally Posted by rosemont83 View Post
    Been getting these training programs from bb.com and I'm realizing they aren't the greatest and are just a front to sell supplements..
    I've tried the Kris Gethin 12 week trainer and was thinking about trying the stoppani 12 week shortcut to size..
    Then I did some research and yeah.. no bueno.
    Feel like I've wasted time following the step by steps.. Did get all of the noob progress that comes with getting back in the gym tho so water under the bridge anyways..

    My goals as always are to get big but not the nasty, fat big. The cut/lean/6 pack big..
    5'7 150lbs ~13% bf I believe..

    Does anyone have a suggestion as far as training programs or templates that I could just follow?
    Are following templates even effective?

    I was doing some reading today about the Layne Norton PHAT training protocol..
    Any good? One of the best? I'm ready to be 100% dedicated to getting down to the single digit body fat percentages..
    I know its going to be difficult especially with college work but someone throw me a bone!
    As long as you go all out, you will build muscle with alot of routines as long as diet is there
    Eat eat eat
    Focus on carbs for size.

    I like DC and P/rr/s and 5x5 for bulking though
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    Drop sets, super sets, failure training, TOT, run the rack, unilateral training, 21s, 40s, FST7. Are the keys to putting on size. Try em they wont let ya down.
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    PHAT had a lot of supporters although I've never tried it myself.

    GVT and FST7 are both legit.

    ​" If you're looking for a work horse.......I'm no Clydesdale."
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    Drop sets, super sets, failure training, TOT, run the rack, unilateral training, 21s, 40s, FST7. Are the keys to putting on size. Try em they wont let ya down.
    I agree. You need a tool belt of training techniques. Think of programs as "supplies" and the stuff mentioned above as "tools". Once u get past the beginner's growth spurt u can just use the tool belt to keep making gains.

    Programs wind up putting limitations on me that I dont like. I usually take a program and mod it to fit my needs based on my historical success and failure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Montego1 View Post
    PHAT had a lot of supporters although I've never tried it myself.

    GVT and FST7 are both legit.
    I had a lot of success with PHAT, but damn it's a killer! Gotta make sure you can dedicate 5 days a week to really push yourself, also eat and rest enough! Eric Brosers' PRRS is legit as well.
  

  
 

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