Training advice needed asap!

[mynameisdiwas]

Hi all,

My rugby season starts in just under 2 weeks, however I've noticed that my current workout has made me strong in the lifts themselves but not strong in terms of rugby so weaker in hitting tackles etc... Could this possibly be because I am in fact cutting right now on top of a rigorous training plan?? Also if anyone could suggest a plan that can help keep my strength up while cutting as well that would be great.

My training programme for the summer has been:
Monday - chest and tris
DB bench press flat - 4x8
DB bench press incline - 4x8
DB bench press flat - 4x8
DB flies - 4x8
Underhand pull downs - 3x8
DB skull crushers - 3x8
Rope Pulldowns - 3x8
Tricep dips - 3x15

Tuesday - back and bis
Reverse rows - 2x8
Pull ups - 3x4
Deadlifts - 4x8
Bar in the corner - 4x8
Bar rows - 4x8
EZ bar curls - 4x8
DB hammer curls - 4x8
Drop set hammer curls/curls

Wednesday - legs and shoulders
Squats - 4x8
1 leg hamstring curls - 4x8
1 leg, leg extensions - 4x8
Standing calf raises - 4x15
DB shoulder press - 4x8
DB side raises - 4x8
DB front raises - 4x8
Rear delt flies - 4x8
Kettle bell shrugs - 4x8

Thursday - abs and cardio

 

[napalm]

Too much stuff. Throw half of that crap out and stick with the basics. Pick a big movement for the day and one or two assistance movements that will improve the big movement.

Your press/pull balance could be better as well.

There are lots of proven programs, find one you like and stick to it.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Could you specify the crap bits please and what do you mean by pull/push balance?

 

[napalm]

I think for rugby, you're not going to get a lot of return doing things like lateral raises or hammer curls - and I'm not a big fan of direct arm work when training for anything outside of bodybuilding TBH. Think bang for the buck bro.

If it were me:

Monday
Flat bench
Dips
Tricep push downs
Face pulls - I try to do 5:1 face pulls to pressing movements

Weds
Deadlift
Pull ups
BB rows/pendlay rows...pick one

Friday
Squats
Front squats
Goodmornings

Off days - cardio.

I think by doing something along the lines if this, you'll get more benefit for rugby than doing what was basically a bodybuilding split.

Good luck...

 

[napalm]

And remember, programming is as important as the movements you are doing...

 

[PaulBlack]

I pretty much agree with Napalm.
The only thing I see is..., some guys are better at dips, some better at BP's. I might not do them both on the same day (a bit redundant perhaps) and instead add a standing OHP movement, to load the hips & spine with weight overhead.

Rugby and or tackles are driving with lots of hip, leg, some low back, so good focus on a strong lower body will go well IMO.
Leg presses and or sled pushes etc maybe!?

As far as cutting but keeping strength, the slower you cut ie: #1 a week, (maybe less), the more lean mass you may hold onto.
Usually no weight loss comes with total or just fat loss only. You will always give up some lean tissue and water in it, which drops strength, so the slower the cut, the more strength and lean mass you can try and retain.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Thanks guys, I can't really do many dips so any alternatives?? But the information has been really helpful, thanks again!

 

[mountainman33]

Your compound exercises should outnumber your isolation exercises as well. You have more tricep and bicep work in your routine than you need. When training my high school and college clients in the off season it all about how well can you perform your contractions with great form and lots of speed, then release slowly. When squatting you should be trying to get that bar to come off your shoulders when you hit the top position, and trying to take 3, 4, or even 5 seconds on the way down. If you aren't exploding with your reps, then you're leaving power on the table. Strength + Speed = Power. And Napalm is right, keep it simple. You want to run faster, jump higher, hit harder? Squats OR deads one day, RDL's and hamstring curls 3 or 4 days later. Train calves on both days. I have a couple of All Americans and high school All Conference players under my belt and these are some of the staples of their training. Hope, this helps.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Thanks for the reply, regarding biceps and triceps - The reason why I do so much is that I don't feel a pump if I do any less exercises. Any tips?? Thank you for the tip, I'll be going lighter from now on going slower on the way down.

 

[mountainman33]

The pump only really relates to facia stretch and high rep fiber activation, it isn't really an indicator of getting stronger, or that you're not working hard enough. You think olympic lifters are worried about the "pump"? Strength rep ranges from 2 - 8 are a good place be. If you're not struggling at 4, 5, 6 reps then your weights may be a touch too light. But remember, you want to be able to explode with your contraction. You recruit more type IIa and type IIb fibers using that protocol, which is what you want for rugby. It also helps with increasing circulation, adding to your cardio facet of training. Since you mentioned earlier that you want strength during cutting, this will help. And sprints in HIIT have been shown to help maintain strength while reducing BF. If you truly feel you need/want a pump, ladders are a good way to go, or swap from isolation to compound or compound to isolation. Your joints will thank you as well.

 

[PaulBlack]

Thanks for the reply, regarding biceps and triceps - The reason why I do so much is that I don't feel a pump if I do any less exercises. Any tips?? Thank you for the tip, I'll be going lighter from now on going slower on the way down.

Yeah possibly... The pump is not always a maker of actual growth and or strength anyway.
Also, if you focus on the big stuff/large groups back/hips/legs/shoulders/chest, (think exercises not parts) where your body has to put out more energy and chemicals etc. to aid growth & make up for the large muscle groups being hit, the systemic change might be better all round, for the smaller groups ie: arms. They really do not need to be trained more than 3-4 sets, 6-10 reps of med to heavy work 2x per week. Focus on making the entire body larger& stronger and the little muscles & stuff will stay caught up with reg simple work.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Thank you for the advice, been so caught up on getting 'pumped' that I never really thought to research it. Eye opener.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

So this is a mock up training session I've just done, if you could advise me what to add/take away, please feel free to comment. Also could anyone give me alternative to lat pulldowns as my gym doesn't have the machine anymore.

Monday - Legs & Shoulders
Squats - 2x8
Squat Jumps - 2x8
Romanian Deadlifts - 2x8
Leg Extensions - 2x8
Standing Calf Raises - 2x15
DB Shoulder Press - 2x8
DB Side Raises - 2x8
DB Front Raises - 2x8
Rear Delt Flies - 2x8
Kettlebell Shrugs - 2x15

Tuesday - Chest & Triceps
DB Bench Press Flat - 2x8
DB Bench Press Incline - 2x8
DB Bench Press Decline - 2x8
DB Flies Flat - 2x8
Rope Pulldowns - 2x8
EZ Bar Skull Crushers Super Setted with Close Grip Bench Press - 2x8

HIIT

Wednesday - Circuit x2
Hanging Leg Raises - x15
Squat Jumps x10
Pull Ups x4
Press Ups x10
Lying Leg Raises x15
Sled Pushes x2 lengths

Cardio



Thursday - Back & Biceps
Reverse Rows - 2x8
Pull Ups - 3x4
Deadlifts - 2x8
Bar in the corner - 2x8
One arm rows - 2x8
Incline Concentration Curls - 2x8
EZ Bar Curls - 2x8
DB Hammer Curls - 2x8

HIIT

Friday- Rest
Saturday - Cardio
Sunday- Rest

 

[napalm]

:facepalm:

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Also what you guys suggest for rest times? I was thinking 1:30 per set.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

am I being stupid again...

 

[napalm]

am I being stupid again...

I suggested 2, at the most 3 assistance movements, not 12

Take a look at what I suggested as a possible template, then look at your revised one. See the difference?

 

[napalm]

And you're not being stupid, you're trying to learn. We've all been there brochacho...

 

[mynameisdiwas]

I suggested 2, at the most 3 assistance movements, not 12

Take a look at what I suggested as a possible template, then look at your revised one. See the difference?

forgive me if this sounds bad but what exactly is assistance movements??

 

[mountainman33]

You should use more of a push/pull variation in order to maintain balance and stability. Is rugby your main purpose behind your workouts or is it a combo of rugby/aesthetics? In either case, super setting bench with over hand grip barbell rows are one combination. Overhead press with lat pulldowns/pull ups are another example. Try to keep you upper body training seperated from your lower body. Your legs require a lot of nutrition vs. your upper body during recovery so try not to make your body "choose" which is more important for nutrient allocation.

Your shoulder routine is too busy. Stick with a press, 1 or 2 raises, then a press again.

Same with your back routine, too busy. Eliminate 2 row variations and 1 bicep variation, but add 1 set (maybe 2 depending on how aggressive you're feeling) to each exercise.

Split your quad day and hamstring day, and try to get a minimum of 15 sets of exercise for calves on each day.

Chest, eliminate the decline bench, it doesn't really add anything to your overall strength or physique goals. It's taking away energy you could be using for other exercises.

 

[napalm]

Assistance movements are 'exercises' that are meant to improve your main movement of the day. For example, possible assistance for the bench press are close grip bench press, tri push downs etc. for the squat, they'd be RDL's, good mornings etc.

For every main movement, there are tons of assistance movements that will complement them. Some use assistance movements to bring up weak spots as well.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Thanks, its a combo but more leaning towards rugby but as long as I build up my strength and power I'm not too fussed.

 

[compudog]

Assistance movements are 'exercises' that are meant to improve your main movement of the day. For example, possible assistance for the bench press are close grip bench press, tri push downs etc. for the squat, they'd be RDL's, good mornings etc.

For every main movement, there are tons of assistance movements that will complement them. Some use assistance movements to bring up weak spots as well.

For the OP: the main movements are; bench press, back squat, deadlift & overhead press. They're main movements because they're compound lifts, which means you can load them up as you get stronger, basically indefinitely. For instance, someone who has a bench press of 150 lb can get to 200, then 250, then 300 and so on, up to 500, 600, or even 700+ lb. However, you can't do that with dumbbell press, because it's not a compound lift so there's other limiting factors.

So, main lifts = bench press, overhead press, back squat and deadlift. Assistance lifts = everything else.

 

[mynameisdiwas]

More like this then?


Monday
Flat bench - 4x8
Dips - 4x5
Tricep push downs - 4x8
Face pulls - 4x8
Tire Flips - x10
HIIT

Tuesday
Deadlift - 4x8
Pull ups - 4x3
BB rows - 4x8
DB curls - 2x8
DB hammer curls - 2x8
HIIT

Wednesday - Cardio

Friday
Squats - 4x8
Front squats - 4x8
Goodmornings - 4x8
Sled Pushes - x4
HIIT

Saturday - Cardio
Sunday - Rest

 

[PaulBlack]

What about OHP's...?
I am still with Napalm, what about a reg written/proven program like a 5x5 or something?

 

[napalm]

More like this then?

Monday
Flat bench - 4x8
Dips - 4x5
Tricep push downs - 4x8
Face pulls - 4x8
Tire Flips - x10
HIIT

Tuesday
Deadlift - 4x8
Pull ups - 4x3
BB rows - 4x8
DB curls - 2x8
DB hammer curls - 2x8
HIIT

Wednesday - Cardio

Friday
Squats - 4x8
Front squats - 4x8
Goodmornings - 4x8
Sled Pushes - x4
HIIT

Saturday - Cardio
Sunday - Rest

Better, drop the db and hammer curl, your biceps are getting work doing pull-ups and rows.

The other guys are right, you should add a 4th day with ohp's as the main movement. Can't concentrate on training at work!

The hiit,tire flips and sled work and more hiit might be a bit much. Alternate on those. Remember, you're doing a crap load of running with your rugby, you need time to recover...

 

[Wrivest]

Dude, listen to Napalm!
One reason you may feel weaker is because you are over doing it.
They heavy basic moves will challenge you more than you think, if your weights and sets are right.
You are they perfect candidate, IMO, for Wendler 5/3/1. I did it for a while and made great strength gains, and am about to start back up next week.
As far as tackling strength, do you have access to a sled? Try to get in some good sled pushes and pulls if you can
Cheers

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Hi guys, first, thanks for all the advice!

I had a quick look for Wendlers 5/3/1 programme and that seems to be ideal in terms of timing too. Now I just need some help actually understanding the load of which I should be working at as I can't quite work out how to work it out.

 

[Wrivest]

Buy or download his book, it's pretty much step by step. There are also a few apps that you can download that are decent.

 

[Sean1332]

Buy the book

You take your 1RM for squat/bench/deadlift/overhead press and each working load is based off of specific submaximal percentages of your 1RM minus 10% (to be your training 1RM)

 

[mynameisdiwas]

For the training in the book it says 65% etc do I calculate this from my actual max or the 90% that it tells you to calculate first time round?

 

[napalm]

For the training in the book it says 65% etc do I calculate this from my actual max or the 90% that it tells you to calculate first time round?

Establish your 1rm on each lift, then take 90% of that for your TM.

531 is pretty hard to screw up. I've been doing one variation of it or another for ~2 years now...

 

[mynameisdiwas]

Establish your 1rm on each lift, then take 90% of that for your TM.

531 is pretty hard to screw up. I've been doing one variation of it or another for ~2 years now...

Thanks, also what do you think about doing dumbbell bench press's instead of barbell?because it would be easier for me to access DB press's more readily.

 

[napalm]

Thanks, also what do you think about doing dumbbell bench press's instead of barbell?because it would be easier for me to access DB press's more readily.

I would say find somewhere else to train. It's tricky to try to program db's, and if you try to do 531 w db's, well, its not 531...

 

[mynameisdiwas]

I would say find somewhere else to train. It's tricky to try to program db's, and if you try to do 531 w db's, well its not 531...

Alright thanks! Yet again... Haha