Help with making a split for my next "creatine" cycle

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    Focus: shoulders and arms

    Can train 5 days a week max
    Was thinking
    ABABC

    C is shoulders arms

    Not sure if anabolics talk I allowed in this sub forum so
    Also for experienced bicyclists. What sort of overall volume do you do per muscle group
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    did you just refer to creatine as an anabolic?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    did you just refer to creatine as an anabolic?
    Opposite no idea if anabolics allowed on This section
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    did you just refer to creatine as an anabolic?
    I think he doesn't realize that AAS is openly discussed here so he replaced it with the word creatine. I'm hoping that's it at least. That's just the optimist in me.

    Menace-You haven't even given us any sort of information whatsoever to help you out either..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    I think he doesn't realize that AAS is openly discussed here so he replaced it with the word creatine. I'm hoping that's it at least. That's just the optimist in me.

    You haven't even given us any sort of information whatsoever to help you out either..
    I was thinking:
    Push
    Pull
    Push
    Pull
    Shoulders arms
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    i know im not seeing a cyclist that doesnt train legs
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post
    i know im not seeing a cyclist that doesnt train legs
    Was thinking of legs with either pull or push
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post

    I was thinking:
    Push
    Pull
    Push
    Pull
    Shoulders arms
    No. Your overloading your shoulders. They're being worked with all your pressing and pulling movements so adding an additional day for shoulders will possibly hinder your results
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post

    Was thinking of legs with either pull or push
    Why not upper/lower/upper/lower
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    Why not upper/lower/upper/lower
    Not enough volume
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    I think he doesn't realize that AAS is openly discussed here so he replaced it with the word creatine. I'm hoping that's it at least. That's just the optimist in me.

    Menace-You haven't even given us any sort of information whatsoever to help you out either..
    optimism gone yet?
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    Quote Originally Posted by OnionKnight View Post

    optimism gone yet?
    yes
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post

    Not enough volume
    Volume doesn't mean the amount of days you train.
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    I don't know how to ride a bike, is it rough on the shoulders?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    Volume doesn't mean the amount of days you train.
    I usually do 47 sets of bicep curls in the squat rack. Then proceed to flex shirtless for 30 minutes. Really works the ribletts you know?
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    Can't do legs more than once due to knee problems

    Monday:legs
    Tuesday push
    Wednesday pull
    Thursday: push
    Saturday push
    ?!
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    Maybe you should learn to use training wheels first?
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/231713-rob112-3-means.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by EatMoar View Post

    I usually do 47 sets of bicep curls in the squat rack. Then proceed to flex shirtless for 30 minutes. Really works the ribletts you know?
    Not enough volume.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post
    Can't do legs more than once due to knee problems

    Monday:legs
    Tuesday push
    Wednesday pull
    Thursday: push
    Saturday push
    ?!
    Don't do steroids.

    Try a 4 or 5 day split, push/pull, or upper/lower
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post

    Don't do steroids.

    Try a 4 or 5 day split, push/pull, or upper/lower
    Technically he can use whatever compound he wants. Just saying. I doubt he has a knee injury he just is afraid to squat . We have s curl bro on out hands
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    To the OP: Check out layne's PHAT program...and stick with real creatine.

    To everyone else...what the hell has happened to the quality of the discussions here in the past few months? Is it because college is just getting out and summer is around the corner? Or am I just waking up to notice how stupid sounding my species has become..........
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    I don't deal well with regular mono but micronized or MCC works well.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    To the OP: Check out layne's PHAT program...and stick with real creatine.

    To everyone else...what the hell has happened to the quality of the discussions here in the past few months? Is it because college is just getting out and summer is around the corner? Or am I just waking up to notice how stupid sounding my species has become..........
    Drowning in a sea of misinformation...

    This thread is not an aberration by any means. This is every commercial gym USA. To the defense of posts like this thread this isn't new and it probably did sound good in OPs head from what he sees. IMO people learn most from what they see. He should listen to what you and Sean have said bc you two had his best interest in mind.

    I think I speak for everyone when I say it is invaluable to have posters like yourself with the knowledge/experience/ability to help keep checks and balances in the forums.
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    PHAT would def be a good option. It'll have the volume that he wants, if he can except lifting 5 times a week instead of 6. Menace- PHAT will have you training your legs twice a week. I know you mentioned havin knee problems, but If you can work your legs once a week and cycle, then I'm sure you'll be fine to train them twice. IMO people that say they have knee problems, really just have weak lower bodies and don't do anything to strengthen it. I don't know if that's your case though

    I just hate the idea of people going into cycles without training in check. To me, ideally, the people on AAS should have the most experience with diet and training because, ideally, they should have done everything possibly to maximize their gains naturally. That's never the case though.
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    Legs one day because of knee problems. *cough* bull**** *cough*

    Legs one day because they're f'n hard, and nobody sees them more like it.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    If it is a real knee problem I feel for you OP, BUT it could be you squat wrong and travel your knees over your feet instead of staying vertical and forcing you knees to the side and sitting your hamstrings/glutes backward.
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/231713-rob112-3-means.html
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    Quote Originally Posted by rob112 View Post
    If it is a real knee problem I feel for you OP, BUT it could be you squat wrong and travel your knees over your feet instead of staying vertical and forcing you knees to the side and sitting your hamstrings/glutes backward.
    From my experience, there are very few knee problems that cannot be overcome if one is so inclined. I tend to agree with you-likely doing it wrong.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post

    From my experience, there are very few knee problems that cannot be overcome if one is so inclined. I tend to agree with you-likely doing it wrong.
    I agree. With the litany of info out there things can be done to help most cases. I found after some discussions with people in real life most people squat wrong, and most of them are taught wrong. Vicious cycle man. So many people squat by simply bending the knees and putting loads of pressure on the front of the foot; without good teaching how would they know better?
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    When you said ABABC, what did the A and B stand for?

    I think in your case an upper/lower/upper/lower would work well.

    Also, that other last template you had is just awful. 3 push days over 1 pull day? I'm just going to be straight with you; if you think thats a good idea then you lack the knowledge to program a programme for yourself. You'll end up with all kinds of postural and muscular imbalances that way. Get on a proven program and get off the steriods; get your training down first.

    Others had some good suggestions; P.H.A.T works well; google it and give it a shot for at ;east 6 months or so, the less you tinker and jump from one template to the next, (while still periodising and things) the better.
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    Once I ditched the running shoes and went flat footed (socks only or Converse) my knees felt great and my weights went up significantly. I'm 39 btw, so these things do work well..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    Legs one day because of knee problems. *cough* bull**** *cough*

    Legs one day because they're f'n hard, and nobody sees them more like it.
    Got a decent routine down guys

    Pretty much :
    Chest arms
    Back shoulders
    Legs
    Rest/repeat

    Leg issue. Doing squats 3x a week and motocross weekly isn't good for joints.
    I actually love doing squats.
    Leg press is fine imo but the other exercises I hate.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    PHAT would def be a good option. It'll have the volume that he wants, if he can except lifting 5 times a week instead of 6. Menace- PHAT will have you training your legs twice a week. I know you mentioned havin knee problems, but If you can work your legs once a week and cycle, then I'm sure you'll be fine to train them twice. IMO people that say they have knee problems, really just have weak lower bodies and don't do anything to strengthen it. I don't know if that's your case though

    I just hate the idea of people going into cycles without training in check. To me, ideally, the people on AAS should have the most experience with diet and training because, ideally, they should have done everything possibly to maximize their gains naturally. That's never the case though.
    Tbh I have natty training down solid. My biggest issue was trying to bring triceps and shoulders up hence for that extra push day in which I was going to skip chest.
    In which I was not sure about training frequency while cycling as most have different opinions.
    My goal right now overall is to try and get y ffmi >24 up to 26 as fast as I could. Especially seeing as I was 16 when I started.

    It sounds as if I'm defending myself cos of being arrogant. I apologise. Been in a ****ty mood for the past 2 months due to not being as to sleep in past 6 every morning.
    Taking a week off from lifting to allow myself to recover.
    I've learnt that to bring up a body part. Ad in an extra session or increase volume. Which is almost the same thing.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    To the OP: Check out layne's PHAT program...and stick with real creatine.

    To everyone else...what the hell has happened to the quality of the discussions here in the past few months? Is it because college is just getting out and summer is around the corner? Or am I just waking up to notice how stupid sounding my species has become..........
    its you waking up to how stupid humans have become
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post
    Tbh I have natty training down solid.
    uhm, simply put, no you dont. and in a more complicated way, not even close. you dont even list intensity, sets, reps, rest, etc. and just by the body part split you show a massive lack of knowledge of training. i can only imagine how worse it will get if we saw everything else you think is solid training.

    as other that are far better educated than you have recommended, get on a proven program like PHAT for at least 6 months if not a year. dont change it, tweak it, or ruin it in any other way cause you cant make it better. there is a reason why its a proven program. thousands have done it gotten results and that is a far greater success story than you getting results on anything you have done.

    for your body's sake, please, get on a proven program. while on that year long program, come back and read, ask, learn. and maybe, just maybe in that year you can learn what proven program you will do next. after several years of that you may be able to decide your own accessory work while on a proven program for the main lift. and yes, i said lifts, not body parts. of course i am biased as i dont bodybuild, i build my body instead.

    remember, its a marathon not a sprint.

    here is a lesson i have learned after being in sports for more than half my life and being an athletic trainer for 9 years, stop doing your own programs. get on a proven program. ya ya ya. i know, im beating a dead horse. seriously though, the last few years while i approach 40 i am now stronger then ever and all i have done in that time was coan/phillipi deadlift program with 5/3/1 for everything, followed by a year of westside, and 5/3/1 since jan 1st. thats it. simple, and its working.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmdied View Post
    Once I ditched the running shoes and went flat footed (socks only or Converse) my knees felt great and my weights went up significantly. I'm 39 btw, so these things do work well..
    I've heard that works well I'm going to snag a pair of converse tomorrow or something flat. Running shoes blow for squating and deadlifting. I second phat. That program worked so well but prepare to get tired and burnt out the volume is intense. I grew a good amount on it and now I structure all my lifts with older and hypertrophy days branching off of phat.
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    Quote Originally Posted by asooneyeonig View Post

    uhm, simply put, no you dont. and in a more complicated way, not even close. you dont even list intensity, sets, reps, rest, etc. and just by the body part split you show a massive lack of knowledge of training. i can only imagine how worse it will get if we saw everything else you think is solid training.

    as other that are far better educated than you have recommended, get on a proven program like PHAT for at least 6 months if not a year. dont change it, tweak it, or ruin it in any other way cause you cant make it better. there is a reason why its a proven program. thousands have done it gotten results and that is a far greater success story than you getting results on anything you have done.

    for your body's sake, please, get on a proven program. while on that year long program, come back and read, ask, learn. and maybe, just maybe in that year you can learn what proven program you will do next. after several years of that you may be able to decide your own accessory work while on a proven program for the main lift. and yes, i said lifts, not body parts. of course i am biased as i dont bodybuild, i build my body instead.

    remember, its a marathon not a sprint.

    here is a lesson i have learned after being in sports for more than half my life and being an athletic trainer for 9 years, stop doing your own programs. get on a proven program. ya ya ya. i know, im beating a dead horse. seriously though, the last few years while i approach 40 i am now stronger then ever and all i have done in that time was coan/phillipi deadlift program with 5/3/1 for everything, followed by a year of westside, and 5/3/1 since jan 1st. thats it. simple, and its working.
    So doing a typical program which doesn't adhere to any muscle imbalances I myself could have, means that ill be get healthier or look generic as I got **** proportions.
    Exactly what is wrong with the splits? They adhere to the proportions I'm trying to build
    Aka need bigger shoulders and triceps to catch up to the rest of my body.
    Lets go over how to bring up a lagging body part shal we; add more overal weekly volume by A: increase frequency of that body part
    B: add More Sets to the body part

    Now if bodybuilding is a marathon. Why do people consistently search for ways to train more optimally to grow faster?
    It's our nature? Yes.
    And last I checked push pull was a proven split.
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    push/pull is a proven split. legs/push/pull/push/push is not. you don't imbalance your training to make up lagging muscle groups. yes, train what you're lagging in, but everything still has to be proportionate.

    pushing one day, then pushing the day after, then looking for a 6th workout day right after isn't effective training.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sean1332 View Post
    push/pull is a proven split. legs/push/pull/push/push is not. you don't imbalance your training to make up lagging muscle groups. yes, train what you're lagging in, but everything still has to be proportionate.

    pushing one day, then pushing the day after, then looking for a 6th workout day right after isn't effective training.
    Fair enough.
    Just took a look at the phat and its almost identical to what I made in terms in terms of sets.
    Might actually add a few sets of strength work with the main exercises (DL , squat bench rows)
    Does seem like a good idea.
    Splits the same as the hypertrophy part of the routine
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    If you have lagging body parts then you can manipulate volume on any given workout day to get those lagging parts to catch up, rather than decreasing/ increasing frequency of other days. Keep the days the same (push/pull/legs/push/pull) or whatever (personally I think upper/lower/upper/lower work well as it forces balance between the upper and lower body) but instead just drop back a few sets on those groups you think are ahead of the rest.

    IMO this works better than having an imbalanced routine from the offset and allows you to adjust as you need while ensuring you recover adequetly between muscle groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by White Menace View Post
    Fair enough.
    Just took a look at the phat and its almost identical to what I made in terms in terms of sets.
    Might actually add a few sets of strength work with the main exercises (DL , squat bench rows)
    Does seem like a good idea.
    Splits the same as the hypertrophy part of the routine
    Don't change his program. The dude that wrote it is smart as ****.
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