caz and tygas ongoing log.. and w/e we decide to use.

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  1. Quote Originally Posted by CATdiesel76 View Post
    Would an AI even be necessary for an Ostarine PCT? Im not versed on the stuff but I figured a serm would be more than enough for pct because I doubt there is a bunch of estro rebound from it.
    Some logs have people reporting issues with estrogen will on ostarine.
    Psalms 62:1-62:2


  2. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    Some logs have people reporting issues with estrogen will on ostarine.
    This ^
    Quote Originally Posted by CATdiesel76 View Post
    Would an AI even be necessary for an Ostarine PCT? Im not versed on the stuff but I figured a serm would be more than enough for pct because I doubt there is a bunch of estro rebound from it.
    I meant an AI or a SERM, not both, since it's supposedly so mild. But honestly, it's a very personal thing - Caz should do whatever feels right at the end of the Ostarine.
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.
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  3. Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    This ^ I meant an AI or a SERM, not both, since it's supposedly so mild. But honestly, it's a very personal thing - Caz should do whatever feels right at the end of the Ostarine.
    I think I'm going to just finish the forma stane at 10 pumps like I'v been for the last 2 weeks. I'm getting a nice hardening from it and feel it's helped me keep my muscle during this limited lifting.. As for PCT it should be mild and since I haven't been gyno prone I think I'll be fine.. I'm hoping I'm able to lose about 10 lbs of fat in the next 6-8 weeks

  4. Ok like I said I have never really researched ostarine much. Caz I think some people report some joint healing properties. Hopefully it helps out with the shoulder. I just started tb4 again and the stuff is money for injuries

  5. Quote Originally Posted by CATdiesel76 View Post
    Ok like I said I have never really researched ostarine much. Caz I think some people report some joint healing properties. Hopefully it helps out with the shoulder. I just started tb4 again and the stuff is money for injuries
    I've read the same and it's part of the reason I'm going with it..
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  6. Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    Take the formestane now - it's steroidal in nature, & thus suppressive. The ostarine isn't steroidal, but it does bind to the Androgen Receptors and seems to cause light suppression in time. It will technically compete for AR sites with the formestane but this is negligible IMHO. But ostarine bugs some people's gyno, so all the more reason to run the formestane & curtail any potential issues. But whether you take the formestane now, do NOT take it in/as a PCT as it will have the opposite desired effect.
    Forma in low to moderate doses will increas testosterone count, when using it as an AI it most definitely increases testosterone. However if you increase the dose for anabolism and strength then yes it can be midly suppressive.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    I was always under the impression that low dose forma was not suppressive (half dose) only AI at that dose. I agree that the full dose can be slightly surpressive and I do feel a good hardening from it..
    Not even at a half dose. People are getting testosterone increases at over 100mg a day. The conversion rate is pretty low so it takes a really big dose.
    Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    It is. It's only suppressive in excess amounts (won't convert to hydroxy test unless you're putting ample, I mean ample amounts on at one time- 10+ pumps)
    Precicely and of course the pumps depend on what brand you are using. BPS Formasurge has natural SERMS in it and lower dose per pump on the formastane but also the serms basically make it perfect for increasing test and people do use it for PCT. Now Formeron has 50mgs formastane per pump so 10 pumps of it would be 500 and definitely in the realm of conversion to hydro-test.
    Quote Originally Posted by CATdiesel76 View Post
    Would an AI even be necessary for an Ostarine PCT? Im not versed on the stuff but I figured a serm would be more than enough for pct because I doubt there is a bunch of estro rebound from it.
    If you are gyno prone it might even be needed while on Ostarine. Ostarine converts a little bit to E2 so people who are REALLY sensitive to gyno will experience issues with it. I get an ache in my nips when on it if I don't use an AI albeit at a low dose. For the most part unless you went really high on dose any good test booster will do the trick. Note my personal opinion is to NEVER use a test booster that concentrates more on increasing free testosterone in PCT. It makes you feel better and makes you loose less muscle at first but it tells your body that it is done recovering before it really is because of the higher levels of free test. Your body doesn't keep track of bound test, it is inactive so it reads free test to decide if it needs to increase serum levels. If serum levels are low but free test is normal your body sees no reason to recover further and you reset your normal serum levels lower over time. A better practice is to add in things that increase LH, like mucana, natural SERMS, DAA, Fadogia, but save the things that free testosterone until you are actually recovered, or better yet when on cycle to reduce SHGB and increase free androgens.
    Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    I've read the same and it's part of the reason I'm going with it..
    Yes Ostarine is kind of based off of Nandrolone, and is said to increase collagen much like Nandrolone. A lot of the reason it is said to help with the joints is the E2 conversion.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  7. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Yes Ostarine is kind of based off of Nandrolone, and is said to increase collagen much like Nandrolone. A lot of the reason it is said to help with the joints is the E2 conversion.

    I thought all of the sarms were based off of 19nors since they have a higher affinity to bind to the AR?
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream

  8. Quote Originally Posted by MrKleen73 View Post
    Forma in low to moderate doses will increas testosterone count, when using it as an AI it most definitely increases testosterone. However if you increase the dose for anabolism and strength then yes it can be midly suppressive.

    Not even at a half dose. People are getting testosterone increases at over 100mg a day. The conversion rate is pretty low so it takes a really big dose.

    Precicely and of course the pumps depend on what brand you are using. BPS Formasurge has natural SERMS in it and lower dose per pump on the formastane but also the serms basically make it perfect for increasing test and people do use it for PCT. Now Formeron has 50mgs formastane per pump so 10 pumps of it would be 500 and definitely in the realm of conversion to hydro-test.
    I'm using FORMA-STANZOL at 10pumps twice a day so I'm getting 200mgs, and I do feel a nice muscle hardening going on

    Per 10 pump serving
    60 servings per container

    100mgs Formestane
    25mgs DIM
    7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
    chrysin 4mg
    Horse Chestnut seed extract 8mg

  9. Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    I thought all of the sarms were based off of 19nors since they have a higher affinity to bind to the AR?
    They are, Nandrolone is a 19Nor.

    Copied from http://www.ergogenics.org/anabolenboek/index5en.html
    "For anabolic steroids four steroid skeletons with their own name are important for us; these are the gonane skeleton, the estrane skeleton, the androstane skeleton and the pregnane skeleton (see Figure 1).

    The gonane skeleton is the most simple one, the C19 methyl group at C10 and the C18 methyl group at C13 are absent in this skeleton.

    In the estrane skeleton only the methyl group at C10 is missing. This skeleton is also indicated as a 19-nor androstane skeleton, but that is not an official name. The prefix nor means that one C-atom is missing, in this case C19. One of the best known 19 nor steroids is nandrolone, which is also known as 19-nor-testosterone. "
    Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    I'm using FORMA-STANZOL at 10pumps twice a day so I'm getting 200mgs, and I do feel a nice muscle hardening going on

    Per 10 pump serving
    60 servings per container

    100mgs Formestane
    25mgs DIM
    7,8 - Benzoflavone (99%) 25mg
    chrysin 4mg
    Horse Chestnut seed extract 8mg
    Yes you would either way because less water being held and increased fat loss due to low estrogen. Also it is increasing your test so you should be getting harder.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  10. Hey caz. I just had a thought bro. Be careful with the little ones around that topical. I know it isn't test but I'd imagine it could have potential to cause similar issues. I know the BLR stuff seemed to take forever to dry when I was using 12 pumps.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream

  11. Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    Hey caz. I just had a thought bro. Be careful with the little ones around that topical. I know it isn't test but I'd imagine it could have potential to cause similar issues. I know the BLR stuff seemed to take forever to dry when I was using 12 pumps.
    Thanks for your concerns beast!!! I've been very careful, I apply it at night after my little ones have gone to sleep then keep it covered with a shirt. I also apply it in the morning after my shower and immediately put on my work cloths which is a long sleeve button down shirt so it covered again.. I only apply the Forma with one finger and wash the hell out of my hands after, and this stuff dries in about 20 seconds..

  12. I was about to tell him you were already taking precautions.

    Beast - Great Minds Brother! That is what I told him when planning it out too. So we came up with the plan he listed about for precaution.
    Live Hard, Laugh Hard, Love Hard and Heal Fast! - KLEEN
    Current Training Log -
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/workout-logs/276206-kleen-strong-body.html

  13. Update!!

    Been really slacking on updates here so it's time to get back at it.. So for the last 2 weeks I'm back lifting again!!! Still killing cardio with and average of about 35-45 mins per workout and core work.. My ECA stack is done and in down to 215lbs, so in 4 weeks I was able to drop 9 lbs of fat!! My waist is much thinner while still keeping most of my size..

    Current supps are:

    Osta RX: 3 per day
    Fat smack: 4 per day spread out
    ALCAR: 3 per day
    Abliderate advance: 2 times a day


    I'm almost 3 weeks on Osta RX and at first didn't notice anything, but at the start of the 3rd weeks things started happening. First my joints and shoulder feels awesome from it which had enabled me to lift again. Second getting an amazing pump and my strength is back where I left off and climbing.. Going to run Osta RX 8 weeks, I'm pumped to see how much I can get out of it so far very happy..

    My workouts have been cut back to Mon-Thurs lifting cardio and core work those days. Fri & Sun are off days and Sat is a 1 hour cardio only session.. Workouts will be posted daily again starting Monday.. Get back in here guys I'm going to start killing ish again!!! Lol

  14. Ya buddy! 9lbs leaner! Nice work brotherman!
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  15. I've been slacking as well.. I've taken a different approach to lifting now. Here's what I've been doing as of lately

    Legs 12-15 reps
    Back, chest, shoulders bis and tris 10-12 reps

    Every muscle group will have either a rest pause set, drop set, super set or a straight set of 4-6 reps.
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  16. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    Ya buddy! 9lbs leaner! Nice work brotherman!
    Thanks tyga!! You get the package I sent you??

  17. Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    Update!! Been really slacking on updates here so it's time to get back at it.. So for the last 2 weeks I'm back lifting again!!! Still killing cardio with and average of about 35-45 mins per workout and core work.. My ECA stack is done and in down to 215lbs, so in 4 weeks I was able to drop 9 lbs of fat!! My waist is much thinner while still keeping most of my size.. Current supps are: Osta RX: 3 per day Fat smack: 4 per day spread out ALCAR: 3 per day Abliderate advance: 2 times a day I'm almost 3 weeks on Osta RX and at first didn't notice anything, but at the start of the 3rd weeks things started happening. First my joints and shoulder feels awesome from it which had enabled me to lift again. Second getting an amazing pump and my strength is back where I left off and climbing.. Going to run Osta RX 8 weeks, I'm pumped to see how much I can get out of it so far very happy.. My workouts have been cut back to Mon-Thurs lifting cardio and core work those days. Fri & Sun are off days and Sat is a 1 hour cardio only session.. Workouts will be posted daily again starting Monday.. Get back in here guys I'm going to start killing ish again!!! Lol
    Nice update caz. I've always wanted to try ECA. I see it did very well for you. Keep it up playa
    Black Lion Representative
    I'm a Brooklyn boy I may take some gettin' use to

  18. Quote Originally Posted by halfhuman View Post
    Nice update caz. I've always wanted to try ECA. I see it did very well for you. Keep it up playa
    It's good stuff !! What you running halfs??

  19. Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    It's good stuff !! What you running halfs??
    Yea ima give it a go come spring time.

    Right now I'm running SD for 6 weeks at 10mg. Loving it.
    Black Lion Representative
    I'm a Brooklyn boy I may take some gettin' use to

  20. Awesome to hear you're shredding up so well Caz, & that Ostarine is treating you so well. I've got 8 wks worth as well for after the cycle. Not sure if I should start immediately after or wait til after Clomid. Want to start sooner but thinking it might be best to get through the SERM first.

    Tyga, I wanna hear more about what you've got cooking for your workout plan!
    Controlled Labs Board Rep
    [email protected]
    CONTROLLED LABS products are produced in a GMP for Sport certified facility.

  21. Quote Originally Posted by bcazo View Post
    Thanks tyga!! You get the package I sent you??
    No! Not yet.. Was it suppose to be here by now?
    Psalms 62:1-62:2

  22. Quote Originally Posted by tyga tyga View Post
    No! Not yet.. Was it suppose to be here by now?
    I mailed it Tuesday so maybe Monday ?

  23. Quote Originally Posted by Hyde View Post
    Awesome to hear you're shredding up so well Caz, & that Ostarine is treating you so well. I've got 8 wks worth as well for after the cycle. Not sure if I should start immediately after or wait til after Clomid. Want to start sooner but thinking it might be best to get through the SERM first.

    Tyga, I wanna hear more about what you've got cooking for your workout plan!
    Isn't Ostarine suppressive? I read that you don't really want to use it during PCT. Just curious because I have no idea about this compound.

  24. Quote Originally Posted by drewsicle3210 View Post
    Isn't Ostarine suppressive? I read that you don't really want to use it during PCT. Just curious because I have no idea about this compound.
    In high doses yes it can be mildly suppressive. Low doses not so much. I'd recommend blood work before during and after pct at a low to moderate dose.
    I'm just a dude chasing a dream

  25. Quote Originally Posted by superbeast668 View Post
    In high doses yes it can be mildly suppressive. Low doses not so much. I'd recommend blood work before during and after pct at a low to moderate dose.
    Good info, thanks
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