Mike Mentzer style training

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    Mike Mentzer style training


    What are your thoughts on Mike Mentzer's style of HIT training? Can something so simple really be that effective?

    Thought it'd be interesting to discuss the training style of one of the greats.

    I need something for 3 days a week an was considering this...

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    Quote Originally Posted by T-Bone View Post
    Only way to know is to try it out for yourself. I wouldn't ask other people's opinion on certain training program before trying it out. Just because someone else doesn't like it or likes it doesn't mean it won't be right for you. Don't base your decision on what you do with the answers you get in this thread. That is a big mistake.
    I know that. I wouldn't base my decision on anyone's feedback, but it wouldn't hurt to read thoughts.
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    My experience is that HIT works for moderately-experienced trainees who are very much ectomorphs. I think the major reason why is due to the preservation of energy expenditure and minimal activation of AMPK with such short, low volume workouts. In my personal and professional experience though, the more advanced you are and the more you your metabolism/body type shifts to that of a mesomorph the less effective it is.

    Br
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    Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED View Post
    My experience is that HIT works for moderately-experienced trainees who are very much ectomorphs. I think the major reason why is due to the preservation of energy expenditure and minimal activation of AMPK with such short, low volume workouts. In my personal and professional experience though, the more advanced you are and the more you your metabolism/body type shifts to that of a mesomorph the less effective it is.

    Br
    That makes sense. I'm also rather curious as to how much of the publicity it received was due to effectiveness and how much was due to marketing and publicity.

    It's tempting though to think one could make significant gains in size and strength by spending such little time in the gym.
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    I used mentzers heavy duty about 10-15 years ago with great success. I trained M/W/F and not once every 5-7 days. Just remember that all the sets should be taken to absolut failure ( i always finished squats in the hole).
    I find this way of training much more taxing on the body.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    I used mentzers heavy duty about 10-15 years ago with great success. I trained M/W/F and not once every 5-7 days. Just remember that all the sets should be taken to absolut failure ( i always finished squats in the hole).
    I find this way of training much more taxing on the body.
    Thanks for for the feedback. What would your workouts look like and how long did they last?
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    Chest/back
    Db flyes superset
    Incline bench
    Pullovers superset
    Chins
    Deadlifts

    Legs
    Leg extentions superset
    Squats
    Calf raises

    Shoulders/arms
    Standing press
    Laterals
    Rear laterals
    Curls and / or chins
    Tri cable ext. Or skulls superset
    Dips
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    Always less than 20 minutes. Legs was always less than 10. I forgot to say that i always did a warmup set or two of the compound excercise. I think you need to be very focused and willing to actualy get failure. Even tho it is easier when you know that it is only one set.
    Legs for me was 15-20 reps chins and dips was 5 reps plus negatives every now and then and all the rest was 8-12 reps.
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    New here and this thread is why. I just read a HD book, and started a 4-6 week commitment to see if it works for me. I tried about 6 mo ago but in a few weeks it wasn't strict heavy duty. This time I am choosing a 15 rep weight for starters and using a timer instead of counting reps. After 90 sec of constant tension I increase weight at next session. This will get me dialed in with in a week or so. It felt wimpy until 20-30 min after workout and then I just felt bigger.

    How will you decide what program to use? What are criteria beside 3day/wk?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    Chest/back
    Db flyes superset
    Incline bench
    Pullovers superset
    Chins
    Deadlifts

    Legs
    Leg extentions superset
    Squats
    Calf raises

    Shoulders/arms
    Standing press
    Laterals
    Rear laterals
    Curls and / or chins
    Tri cable ext. Or skulls superset
    Dips
    So, was every exercise a superset with something else?
    Was shoulders simply straight sets?
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    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    Always less than 20 minutes. Legs was always less than 10. I forgot to say that i always did a warmup set or two of the compound excercise. I think you need to be very focused and willing to actualy get failure. Even tho it is easier when you know that it is only one set.
    Legs for me was 15-20 reps chins and dips was 5 reps plus negatives every now and then and all the rest was 8-12 reps.
    Did you work out by yourself or did you have a partner during this time? I typically train by myself and know that absolute, leave it on my chest, failure may require a partner.

    So for the flies and the incline, it was set of flies with an immediate move to incline bench. Both done to failure?

    Sorry for the questions.
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    Quote Originally Posted by makingwaves View Post
    New here and this thread is why. I just read a HD book, and started a 4-6 week commitment to see if it works for me. I tried about 6 mo ago but in a few weeks it wasn't strict heavy duty. This time I am choosing a 15 rep weight for starters and using a timer instead of counting reps. After 90 sec of constant tension I increase weight at next session. This will get me dialed in with in a week or so. It felt wimpy until 20-30 min after workout and then I just felt bigger.

    How will you decide what program to use? What are criteria beside 3day/wk?
    How many reps do you average within the 90 seconds?

    It's hard picking a new program. I'm thinking of either what smike laid out or some for of 3day full body workout. I've done the full body's before and I really like them.
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    All sets to failure and as you said only shoulders didn't have supersets. I also train alone so i only do heavy db presses.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post

    How many reps do you average within the 90 seconds?

    It's hard picking a new program. I'm thinking of either what smike laid out or some for of 3day full body workout. I've done the full body's before and I really like them.
    From what i remember this routine is the original heavy duty. I'll have to check the book if i find it.
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    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post

    From what i remember this routine is the original heavy duty. I'll have to check the book if i find it.
    Awesome. Thanks
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    I think the problem is counting reps. At least at first because your focus should be on a 10 sec rep. Once you slow down you need mental focus on the lift not counting reps. If you do 10 sec reps for 90 sec that's 9 reps.
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    To gain a broader understanding of HIT training in general, look up Arthur Jones and read his theories and observations. Mentzer trained under him, along with a Casey Viator, the model HIT physique athlete.

    Dr. Ellington Darden was an understudy of Jones and has lots of literature out as well. All will provide insight to Mentzer's template. They fathered it.
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    Re: Mike Mentzer style training


    Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.
    Nice man. Care to share the routine?
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    Ok this is the original heavy duty and what the book says is to workout every other day and when you complete the three workouts rest 2 days. Also he says that if gains stop you should rest for one week and when you start again take more days off.

    CHEST/DELTS/TRIS
    Db flyes (or a machine variation)
    Superseted
    Incline bench

    Lateral raise
    Bent over lateral raise

    Cable press superseted
    Dips

    BACK/BIS
    pullovers supersered
    Chins

    Barbell rows

    Shrugs

    Deadlifts

    Curls

    LEGS
    Leg extentions superseted
    Squats

    Leg curls

    Calf raise
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    Some of mentzers stuff says one set to failure and some says to do 2-3 sets. But these single sets are an isolation movement followed by a compound one so its almost like 2 sets. And if u follow his recommendation for TUT 4 sec up, 4 down, 2 pause midway it accumulates to a lot of TUT comparable to a normal workout. The past week I just shifted over to a mentzer-esque routine. Its a nice change, and I can go a LOT lighter since im doing the reps so slow. Sore as hell so far, really enjoying it. I'll follow it for a while until I stop gaining or get bored.
    Actually nowhere in the book does it say 4 seconds up and down. All he says is that the motion should be controled with a pause at the top.
    If you need anything else from this book or heavy duty 2 let me know.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    Nice man. Care to share the routine?
    Similar to what smike posted above.

    Leg day is:

    2 cycles of Leg extensions superset with leg press
    2 cycles of Leg curl superset with weighted hyperextensions
    2 sets of hanging leg raises

    Push day is:

    Bench DC style (three back to back sets to failure with 15 seconds rest btwn them)
    1 cycle of Lateral raise superset with seated shoulder press
    Skullcrushers DC style

    Pull Day is:

    2 cycles of Kelso shrug on row maching superset with machine rows
    2 cycles of machine pullovers superset with cable pulldown
    Barbell curl DC style

    Everything done in super slow motion. I would do flies before bench, but when I tried my biceps gave out first. DC is good stuff too if you like Mentzer's stuff. Check this guy's page out. He has a lot of other good instructional videos of Mentzer's HIT stuff and it shows the rep speed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi-1-u2rVg
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    Quote Originally Posted by smike View Post
    Ok this is the original heavy duty and what the book says is to workout every other day and when you complete the three workouts rest 2 days. Also he says that if gains stop you should rest for one week and when you start again take more days off.

    CHEST/DELTS/TRIS
    Db flyes (or a machine variation)
    Superseted
    Incline bench

    Lateral raise
    Bent over lateral raise

    Cable press superseted
    Dips

    BACK/BIS
    pullovers supersered
    Chins

    Barbell rows

    Shrugs

    Deadlifts

    Curls

    LEGS
    Leg extentions superseted
    Squats

    Leg curls

    Calf raise
    I really appreciate the feedback. What all does he say about rep ranges, timing, etc.
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post

    Similar to what smike posted above.

    Leg day is:

    2 cycles of Leg extensions superset with leg press
    2 cycles of Leg curl superset with weighted hyperextensions
    2 sets of hanging leg raises

    Push day is:

    Bench DC style (three back to back sets to failure with 15 seconds rest btwn them)
    1 cycle of Lateral raise superset with seated shoulder press
    Skullcrushers DC style

    Pull Day is:

    2 cycles of Kelso shrug on row maching superset with machine rows
    2 cycles of machine pullovers superset with cable pulldown
    Barbell curl DC style

    Everything done in super slow motion. I would do flies before bench, but when I tried my biceps gave out first. DC is good stuff too if you like Mentzer's stuff. Check this guy's page out. He has a lot of other good instructional videos of Mentzer's HIT stuff and it shows the rep speed:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pUi-1-u2rVg
    Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link man. That was one very intense leg workout. I watched all three videos that went with legs and I can easily see how one could reach hypertrophy from that.

    It also seemed like the warm up sets of the leg press, the compound movements, were quite heavy themselves. What do you think?

    I haven't had the chance to watch the other vids yet, but I plan to do so.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    Wow!! Thanks for sharing the link man. That was one very intense leg workout. I watched all three videos that went with legs and I can easily see how one could reach hypertrophy from that.

    It also seemed like the warm up sets of the leg press, the compound movements, were quite heavy themselves. What do you think?

    I haven't had the chance to watch the other vids yet, but I plan to do so.
    Im not sure how heavy they were, but that guy is pretty big so im guessing he is stronger than me. Im curious if he actually trains using mentzer's routine or if this was the first time he tried it. Its worth watching them all, really shows u how quickly the workouts can be done. And the routine itself is worth trying for a short time to switch things up if nothing else. Its really nice doing it for legs and taking a break from heavy azz back squats. My knees are thanking me already!
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    I am little unclear of Mentzer recover period or frequency of workouts. He says train 1x/wk/body part. In other places he says train 4 days later. If the goal is to recover and then grow and then workout again how do you judge when its time to train a body part again?
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    Quote Originally Posted by makingwaves View Post
    I am little unclear of Mentzer recover period or frequency of workouts. He says train 1x/wk/body part. In other places he says train 4 days later. If the goal is to recover and then grow and then workout again how do you judge when its time to train a body part again?
    You start off training frequently, and as gains slow down you increase the rest period to once per week or whatever you can handle.
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    Quote Originally Posted by lboston View Post
    What are your thoughts on Mike Mentzer's style of HIT training? Can something so simple really be that effective?

    Thought it'd be interesting to discuss the training style of one of the greats.

    I need something for 3 days a week an was considering this...
    This method of training WILL work if it is very different from what you HAVE been doing. That said, it will not work indefinitely because the body needs more variety or it will adapt to the program in a matter of weeks.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EBroser View Post
    This method of training WILL work if it is very different from what you HAVE been doing. That said, it will not work indefinitely because the body needs more variety or it will adapt to the program in a matter of weeks.
    you can rotate your exercises just like you would with regular training and you can get gains for a long time
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    Quote Originally Posted by tnubs View Post
    you can rotate your exercises just like you would with regular training and you can get gains for a long time
    The reps, tempos, and volume should also change...as well as the intensity should be cycled.
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    Those of you who are strict with heavy duty, do you also do Cardio and if so what style and for what purpose?
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    Re: Mike Mentzer style training


    Quote Originally Posted by makingwaves View Post
    Those of you who are strict with heavy duty, do you also do Cardio and if so what style and for what purpose?


    No cardio for me... Unless I'm doing some low intensity fasting cardio. I think HIIT is better, tho, but you need too be in the fed state.
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