Serious DOMS (no training changes; so what's the cause?)

  1. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Serious DOMS (no training changes; so what's the cause?)


    Title says it all. For the last few months, I've been getting really, really bad DOMS. I've had this happen in the past if say I took a few weeks off from lifting for one reason or another, but it's gone after the first or second time back in. This has been months and my training style hasn't changed. I did a Max-OT arm session on Friday and they're still as sore today as they were yesterday. On top of that, somehow my abs are feeling it, too. Now if that were following a deadlift or squat day, I might understand, but arms?! These tend to last 4-5 days and keep me out of the gym an extra day or two in between, because there's no way I'd be able to get the quality of workout in that I want, so I just wait (instead of going in and lifting half the weight I should be able to). I've tried upping BCAAs, adding in some extra glutamine pre-bed, no real dietary changes. No idea what the cause is, so I was just curious if anyone else has ever dealt with this or if anyone has suggestions. Thanks in advance.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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  2. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast
    Title says it all. For the last few months, I've been getting really, really bad DOMS. I've had this happen in the past if say I took a few weeks off from lifting for one reason or another, but it's gone after the first or second time back in. This has been months and my training style hasn't changed. I did a Max-OT arm session on Friday and they're still as sore today as they were yesterday. On top of that, somehow my abs are feeling it, too. Now if that were following a deadlift or squat day, I might understand, but arms?! These tend to last 4-5 days and keep me out of the gym an extra day or two in between, because there's no way I'd be able to get the quality of workout in that I want, so I just wait (instead of going in and lifting half the weight I should be able to). I've tried upping BCAAs, adding in some extra glutamine pre-bed, no real dietary changes. No idea what the cause is, so I was just curious if anyone else has ever dealt with this or if anyone has suggestions. Thanks in advance.
    Spend more time stretching after your workout. That usually helps for me
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  3. sleeping enough?


    take 2g of ginger daily should help alot
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  4. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    Quote Originally Posted by cswalczakny View Post
    Spend more time stretching after your workout. That usually helps for me
    Good advice. I've been meaning to focus more on that (and actually wanted to research the DC stretching and incorporate it, too), but have been neglecting it. I'll make sure to be very proactive about that this week and see what difference it makes. Thanks!

    Quote Originally Posted by gregg1494 View Post
    sleeping enough?


    take 2g of ginger daily should help alot
    Generally getting enough sleep. I usually get about 8 hours, though sometimes it can be about 7. Overall, I feel like I do better than most, though (if 7 is "low" then that's not bad). I'll look into the ginger. Thank you.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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  5. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast

    Good advice. I've been meaning to focus more on that (and actually wanted to research the DC stretching and incorporate it, too), but have been neglecting it. I'll make sure to be very proactive about that this week and see what difference it makes. Thanks!

    Generally getting enough sleep. I usually get about 8 hours, though sometimes it can be about 7. Overall, I feel like I do better than most, though (if 7 is "low" then that's not bad). I'll look into the ginger. Thank you.
    Lclt helps with doms I believe, if you're not already taking it

  6. Quote Originally Posted by uvawahoowa
    Lclt helps with doms I believe, if you're not already taking it
    I'm going to look into this

  7. Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness

  8. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM
    Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness
    Citmal huh? Had not read this...is it the citrulline or the malate?

  9. Both.
    The malate helps more in preventing lactic acid buildup, and the citrulline helps more in preventing muscle fatigue.
  10. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    I already dose 7g cit mal pre-workout (and get another 1g intra-workout from Compete + some LCLT via that method, too, but not that much). I'll add the LCLT into pre-workout.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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  11. You sure its DOMS thats is the cause? Especially if its in a muscle group that you havent used id be rather sceptical about calling it that. I can undrstand the arms still being sore, DOMS can last a while depending on the level and TUT of eccentric training and/or lack of rest or food for recovery.

  12. Eat more protein or take some time off.

    Don't do DC stretching, that'll make it worse! DOMS is way worse, for me, on DC training. I usually don't get it unless I suddenly add a lot of volume to my training and don't eat enough calories, mostly protein.

    You may be dehydrated also.
    Serious Nutrition Solutions Representative

  13. have you tried an active recovery workout? just something to flush the muscles with blood.
    you can call me "ozzie" for short.

  14. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Take 8g citrulline malate and 3g LCLT preworkout. Both are PROVEN to reduce soreness
    Interesting, I have not heard this. I am not doubting you, but can you post ome references, I'm interested in seeing the physiological mechanisms.

    As for lactate, lactic acid DOES NOT cause DOMS. The acid part might cause a burning sensation during metabolic work as it can trigger local muscular nerves, but it does not damage muscle cells and is generally metabolized with 1-4 hours after working out.

    Br

  15. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    Interesting, I have not heard this. I am not doubting you, but can you post ome references, I'm interested in seeing the physiological mechanisms.

    As for lactate, lactic acid DOES NOT cause DOMS. The acid part might cause a burning sensation during metabolic work as it can trigger local muscular nerves, but it does not damage muscle cells and is generally metabolized with 1-4 hours after working out.

    Br
    Zir, can you explain what causes doms? Is it normal or is it from training issues like over training or wrong form... I have always wondered. Or just something that happens to everyone?

  16. Quote Originally Posted by bmftisftw View Post
    Zir, can you explain what causes doms? Is it normal or is it from training issues like over training or wrong form... I have always wondered. Or just something that happens to everyone?
    You know, we (the scientific community) are still learning about DOMS. The most acceptable explanation (in my opinion) is muscle trauma. Both the sarcolemma (membrane) and myofillaments (contractile proteins) are damaged, as a result, DOMS ensues to send a signal and hopefully prevent further damage or disruption as repair is occuring. Somewhere in there is inflammation as well...which is a double edged sword. Some inflammation is necessary for repair, too much reduces repair and may increase the sensation of DOMS.

    Why causes the muscle damage? Unfamiliar stimulus (like doing a new exercise for the first time hard), excessive volume, and eccentric loading. In a lot of studies, when we want to test recovery, we'll eccentrically load the muscles to cause muscle damage and DOMS.

    Br
  17. AnabolicMinds Site Rep
    MidwestBeast's Avatar

    It must mostly be the volume from my HVT stuff and the fact that on Max-OT days, I'm still regularly adding more weight on a weekly basis.

    I haven't really done any active recovery workouts, but my workload (days/week) has gone down over the past few weeks because of this and I'm resting 2-3 days between lifts on occasion, because of it.

    And I deduced later that my abs likely have DOMS because I had them flexed (in effort to keep my gut sucked in) for almost the entire day Saturday at a wedding/reception.
    Psalm 34:10 - "The lions may grow weak and hungry, but those who seek the Lord lack no good thing."
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  18. Quote Originally Posted by MidwestBeast View Post
    It must mostly be the volume from my HVT stuff and the fact that on Max-OT days, I'm still regularly adding more weight on a weekly basis.

    I haven't really done any active recovery workouts, but my workload (days/week) has gone down over the past few weeks because of this and I'm resting 2-3 days between lifts on occasion, because of it.

    And I deduced later that my abs likely have DOMS because I had them flexed (in effort to keep my gut sucked in) for almost the entire day Saturday at a wedding/reception.
    Sounds like you had a rough time at the wedding....


    New movements, lack of sleep, too low protein always have been my enemies in DOMs. And not keeping the muscle that is sore "active" not really stressing it but keeping away from "babying" the area and keeping it mobile instead.
    RecoverBro ELITE

  19. Quote Originally Posted by ZiR RED

    You know, we (the scientific community) are still learning about DOMS. The most acceptable explanation (in my opinion) is muscle trauma. Both the sarcolemma (membrane) and myofillaments (contractile proteins) are damaged, as a result, DOMS ensues to send a signal and hopefully prevent further damage or disruption as repair is occuring. Somewhere in there is inflammation as well...which is a double edged sword. Some inflammation is necessary for repair, too much reduces repair and may increase the sensation of DOMS.

    Why causes the muscle damage? Unfamiliar stimulus (like doing a new exercise for the first time hard), excessive volume, and eccentric loading. In a lot of studies, when we want to test recovery, we'll eccentrically load the muscles to cause muscle damage and DOMS.

    Br
    So is there a difference between just being sore and having doms? Or am I just a big ***** after deads / squat workouts?

  20. I found this all on my own.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17313301

    Responses of criterion variables to different supplemental doses of L-carnitine L-tartrate.

    Abstract

    L-carnitine L-tartrate (LCLT) supplementation beneficially affects markers of postexercise metabolic stress and muscle damage. However, to date, no study has determined the dose response of LCLT to elicit such responses. Therefore, the purpose of this study was to determine the effects of different doses of LCLT on criterion variables previously shown to be responsive to LCLT supplementation. Eight healthy men (22 +/- 3 y, 174 +/- 5 cm, 83.0 +/- 15.3 kg) were supplemented with 0 g, 1 g, and 2 g of LCLT for 3 weeks and then performed a bout of resistance exercise (5 sets of 15-20 repetition maximum with a 2-min rest between sets) with associated blood draws. This procedure was performed in a balanced, randomized, repeated measures design. Serum carnitine concentrations increased (p < or = 0.05) following the 1 g and 2 g doses, with the 2-g dose providing the highest carnitine concentrations. The 1- and 2-g doses reduced postexercise serum hypoxanthine, serum xanthine oxidase, serum myoglobin, and perceived muscle soreness. In conclusion, both the 1- and 2-g doses were effective in mediating various markers of metabolic stress and of muscle soreness. Use of LCLT appears to attenuate metabolic stress and the hypoxic chain of events leading to muscle damage after exercise.
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  21. Quote Originally Posted by FL3X MAGNUM View Post
    Interesting, especially for people who perform high volume moderate rep work (typical hypertrophy based workouts).
  

  
 

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