Are heavy workouts longer than 60 minutes that bad for strength/growth?

Page 1 of 2 12 Last
  1. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2617
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    46.01%

    Are heavy workouts longer than 60 minutes that bad for strength/growth?


    I do a full body workout, where depending on exercise I take 2-4 minutes of rest. My workout is full body, bench, deadlifts, pulldowns, barbell rows, lever squats, and shoulder press. I do about 30 working sets, 5 chest, 4 shoulders, 14 back (not including deadlifts), and 9ish legs, which is 32 sets. My rep ranges are mostly 6-8, some dip down to 3-4.

    It takes me north of 90 minutes to finish.

    I have read that workouts over 60 minutes are less effective. I have had gains doing this before, but if I really have to, I will strip out back/deadlifts and do chest/shoulders/legs on another day.

  2. Senior Member
    Mr.Sinister's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2011
    Posts
    1,027
    Rep Power
    9512
    Level
    24
    Lv. Percent
    85.28%
    Achievements Posting Pro

    People get too hung up on the time. It's more about the volume. If it's working for you why change it.
  3. New Member
    RicFlair's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  179 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    113
    Rep Power
    1133
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    41.73%

    You're trying to cram a weeks worth of volume into one training session? Are you limited in the days you can be in the gym??
    •   
       

  4. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,537
    Rep Power
    4497162
    Level
    81
    Lv. Percent
    62.1%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

    This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

    IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

    Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.
  5. Elite Member
    howwedo107's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  200 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2011
    Posts
    5,313
    Rep Power
    1977799
    Level
    66
    Lv. Percent
    5.8%
    Achievements Activity ProActivity AuthorityPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz
    Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

    This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

    IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

    Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.
    Does this change while on anabolics?
    Email me for free prodigy samples
    Ricky@pni-online.com
    www.pni-online.com
  6. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,537
    Rep Power
    4497162
    Level
    81
    Lv. Percent
    62.1%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by howwedo107 View Post
    Does this change while on anabolics?
    Perhaps. However you will still get fatigued on anabolics, but if you can still progress because the strength gains compensate for the fatigue then you can stimulate growth. Tbh I havent given it much thought
  7. Board Moderator
    Never enough
    EasyEJL's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2007
    Age
    47
    Posts
    31,881
    Rep Power
    778122
    Level
    95
    Lv. Percent
    28.65%
    Achievements Activity VeteranActivity RoyaltyActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    I think this workout would be ok, might help some if you drink something with carbs in it during workout. The main reason the longer workouts are questionable are you running low on energy (so later exercises not as intense) and that your cortisol levels start to rise. carbs intraworkout will help with both
  8. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

    This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

    IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

    Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.
    Sorry, but this is total crap. Glycogen levels are not going to significantly drop that quickly unless you are already depleted going into the session. The whole idea trying to limit to workout to XX amount of minutes makes little sense as you cannot put a blanket statement on training like that as it is completely subjective. A dude squatting 800 is going to take a lot longer to finish a session than a dude that squats 400 simply because it will take longer to work up to the higher weights. The problem is that work capacity is rarely stressed because most do not understand its importance.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  9. Banned
    Jay888999's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,364
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    im in and out of the gym in 40-50 mins 9 out of 10 times. anywhere form 3-5 exercises,depending body prt,3-4 sets each and rst time of 45 secs to 90secs
  10. New Member
    RicFlair's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  179 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    113
    Rep Power
    1133
    Level
    9
    Lv. Percent
    41.73%

    I know that I personally cannot mentally focus to my all into 30 working sets a workout. Especially if it's not bodybuilding isolation easy stuff.
  11. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2617
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    46.01%

    As to why I only do 1 heavy day, I am trying to lose fat as my primary goal. For the week, I will work with weights 3 times a week, in general. One day a week, I allow myself heavy weights. The other two days, I am doing light weight with very short rest periods as a form of HIIT. This is geared for fat loss.

    The heavy day is more for personal satisfaction. I hate getting weaker, however, I need to lose weight more than I need to gain muscle. My question is really based around, I am still going to get good hypertrophy if my workout is longer than 60 minutes. I only do 6 exercises (if you count multiple grips/angles on pull downs, 7.5 exercises), but it just takes me longer than 60 minutes. Its 30+ sets, no more than 8 reps, but with long rest periods, I get over 60 minutes. I am more like 105 minutes total on average. At the end, I can still deadlift considerably more than I weight (limiting factor is my girlish hands, I have to try that hook grip).

    Pre workout I am using muscle marinade and drinking about 15gr of liquid whey. During the workout I have two electrolyte tabs and 15-25 grams of whey. This helps me keep my energy up.

    I workout about 4.5 times a week (9 times every two weeks). But in those two weeks, I have only 2 workouts that would be geared does strength gains. I am asking if I have to break that into 4 and see if I can squeeze more days in.
  12. Advanced Member
    broda's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  167 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    750
    Rep Power
    24701
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    75.52%

    The rest periods between sets on your lighter days should be short if you're considering it HIT. 60 seconds between sets would be pretty ideal. Strength training = longer resting time between sets, hypertrophy/volume = shorter resting time between sets.

    Also I have small hands and the hook grip doesn't really work well for me. I can only get my thumb under my index and middle finger so it makes it pretty awkward.
  13. Elite Member
    Jiigzz's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  205 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    5,537
    Rep Power
    4497162
    Level
    81
    Lv. Percent
    62.1%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranPosting ProPosting Authority

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Sorry, but this is total crap. Glycogen levels are not going to significantly drop that quickly unless you are already depleted going into the session. The whole idea trying to limit to workout to XX amount of minutes makes little sense as you cannot put a blanket statement on training like that as it is completely subjective. A dude squatting 800 is going to take a lot longer to finish a session than a dude that squats 400 simply because it will take longer to work up to the higher weights. The problem is that work capacity is rarely stressed because most do not understand its importance.
    It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

    I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

    But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

    I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
    perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?
  14. Advanced Member
    boogyman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  184 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    736
    Rep Power
    35038
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    68.29%

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay888999 View Post
    im in and out of the gym in 40-50 mins 9 out of 10 times. anywhere form 3-5 exercises,depending body prt,3-4 sets each and rst time of 45 secs to 90secs

    This. I simply don't have the time in a day to spend more than an hour working out. I do rest a little longer then you, but rarely do more than 4 movents, usually 3. I lengthen my rest by about 1 minute each set, depending on movement.
  15. Banned
    Jay888999's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,364
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman

    This. I simply don't have the time in a day to spend more than an hour working out. I do rest a little longer then you, but rarely do more than 4 movents, usually 3. I lengthen my rest by about 1 minute each set, depending on movement.
    I love training but hate being at the gym..**** loads of rude,arrogant and anjoying ppl..I keep my head down,try to be and look as anti social and unfriendly as possible and leave. Back is usually 6 exercises including traps..Shoulders 5-6 exercises( 1 pressing front delt movement,front iso raises,side lateral raises,rverse flys,sometimes finish with upright rows and traps on shoulder day as well).. chest 3-4 exer,bis 2 exercises,tricep 4 exercises and legs 2(smith mach or bb squat,ass to grass and deep leg presses and im done!! I keep it simple...
  16. Senior Member
    saggy321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,393
    Rep Power
    116674
    Level
    38
    Lv. Percent
    81.64%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

    I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

    But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

    I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
    perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?
    A very valid point. There is point in a workout of diminishing returns as there is with anything. The question, I guess, should be when in the workout does the OP feel fatigue. If he feels tired half way through and continues to push his body by lifting heavy weights for a further 45 minutes then one could argue that he is either not able to muster the required intensity to be of any benefit in the second half of the workout or he could be overtraining or a combination of both. Also how does the OP feel after the workout and how long does it take to recover.
  17. Advanced Member
    boogyman's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  184 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2011
    Posts
    736
    Rep Power
    35038
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    68.29%

    This is the beauty of the 531. You can lift heavy, do some accessory stuff, and still be in and out in an hour.
  18. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jiigzz View Post
    It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

    I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

    But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

    I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
    perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?
    Post said research showing that glycogen levels significantly drop within an hour in non-depleted subjects. I'm by no means arguing for a that amount of volume in one day as it is counterproductive in a hypertrophic (be it sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar), but that is not the goal of that particular session for him. However, it will do a something that will greatly benefit his heavy days; it will take his conditioning to a very high level and will increase both his work capacity and recovery between sessions. As I said earlier, most templates out there are poorly designed because there is zero emphasis on conditioning and, as a generality, BB'ers are in terrible shape with a very low CV threshold.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  19. Advanced Member
    HondaV65's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  230 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2010
    Age
    52
    Posts
    828
    Rep Power
    2268
    Level
    22
    Lv. Percent
    74.65%

    I train heavy - and fasted.

    I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.

    I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.

    Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.

    First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit

    1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)

    2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.

    5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.

    Also - I’m 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!
  20. Banned
    Jay888999's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,364
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65
    I train heavy - and fasted.

    I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.

    I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.

    Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.

    First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit

    1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)

    2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.

    5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.

    Also - I'm 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!
    Seems like overkill and 2 hrs is wat long...why so many warmup sets..I only warm up through my first exercise and everything is else is working sets with only mt last set to complete failure or if i have a apotter forced reps..Dont see why so many compounds in one day.Why shoulders and chest together??

    No no side raises for mid delts ? No upright rows for hitting the while shoulder???

    But whatever works,i personally dont see this being 100 % effective,but thats me...
  21. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,749
    Rep Power
    270697
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    12.31%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    I think this workout would be ok, might help some if you drink something with carbs in it during workout. The main reason the longer workouts are questionable are you running low on energy (so later exercises not as intense) and that your cortisol levels start to rise. carbs intraworkout will help with both

    Yeah I agree with this. When I'm doing a longer session, I'll break for 10-15min and eat some protein and carbs, and rehydrate. I don't get shaky that way. The shakes are a results of your CNS getting fried, and/or low blood sugar.
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    www . millenniumsport . net
  22. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,749
    Rep Power
    270697
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    12.31%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by boogyman View Post
    This is the beauty of the 531. You can lift heavy, do some accessory stuff, and still be in and out in an hour.

    Yep for sure. I even like adding in light barbell complexes at the end for conditioning, so that would be about 1.5 hours including a short break and warmup/stretching/rolling
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    www . millenniumsport . net
  23. Banned
    Jay888999's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,364
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump

    Yeah I agree with this. When I'm doing a longer session, I'll break for 10-15min and eat some protein and carbs, and rehydrate. I don't get shaky that way. The shakes are a results of your CNS getting fried, and/or low blood sugar.
    So u break 10-15 mins and eat food...yet from what i know it takes atleaat 60 -90 mins for everything to break down and why would you workout on a full stomach ?
  24. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,749
    Rep Power
    270697
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    12.31%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    I don't workout on a full stomach, I'd be falling asleep. I eat a macro bar or something light. Just a snack along with some coconut water or something with salt/potassium.

    I get all my strength training done in less than an hour, then I do conditioning work usually (barbell complexes, prowler, etc - which in fact help with recovery)
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    www . millenniumsport . net
  25. Banned
    Jay888999's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  195 lbs.
    Join Date
    Aug 2012
    Posts
    1,364
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    30
    Lv. Percent
    36%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Gutterpump
    I don't workout on a full stomach, I'd be falling asleep. I eat a macro bar or something light. Just a snack along with some coconut water or something with salt/potassium.

    I get all my strength training done in less than an hour, then I do conditioning work usually (barbell complexes, prowler, etc - which in fact help with recovery)
    Above..u said i will break 10-15 mins and eat carbs n protein to rehydrate when doing ling training sessions.I hear rehydrate that sounds like u fo right back to training...thats what u said and thats how it sounds,lol..now u r saying something completly diff,lol....whata going on here??? Is it me?
  26. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,735
    Rep Power
    2611772
    Level
    107
    Lv. Percent
    25.87%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by rw357 View Post
    As to why I only do 1 heavy day, I am trying to lose fat as my primary goal. For the week, I will work with weights 3 times a week, in general. One day a week, I allow myself heavy weights. The other two days, I am doing light weight with very short rest periods as a form of HIIT. This is geared for fat loss.

    The heavy day is more for personal satisfaction. I hate getting weaker, however, I need to lose weight more than I need to gain muscle. My question is really based around, I am still going to get good hypertrophy if my workout is longer than 60 minutes. I only do 6 exercises (if you count multiple grips/angles on pull downs, 7.5 exercises), but it just takes me longer than 60 minutes. Its 30+ sets, no more than 8 reps, but with long rest periods, I get over 60 minutes. I am more like 105 minutes total on average. At the end, I can still deadlift considerably more than I weight (limiting factor is my girlish hands, I have to try that hook grip).

    Pre workout I am using muscle marinade and drinking about 15gr of liquid whey. During the workout I have two electrolyte tabs and 15-25 grams of whey. This helps me keep my energy up.

    I workout about 4.5 times a week (9 times every two weeks). But in those two weeks, I have only 2 workouts that would be geared does strength gains. I am asking if I have to break that into 4 and see if I can squeeze more days in.
    the theory behind what you are trying to do (1x heavy weekly intertwined with higher reps/HIIT activity) is fine.
    as a general rule, it is not advised to train 90min+, simply because "natural state" ie no anabolics combined with the usual layman's lack of knowledge on nutritional/supplemental preparation for these sessions, is a recipe for overtraining.
    your nutritional approach seems solid, rest periods on those heavy days appropriate..as long as your other days are not suffering, i see nothing wrong with your approach.
    end point: it is not simply a matter of making a general statement of "x amount of time is too long to be in the gym"
    there are many variables to be considered to quantify what is appropriate for "how long"/qualify what is deemed "too long".
  27. Professional Member
    Gutterpump's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  225 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Age
    36
    Posts
    3,749
    Rep Power
    270697
    Level
    49
    Lv. Percent
    12.31%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay888999 View Post
    Above..u said i will break 10-15 mins and eat carbs n protein to rehydrate when doing ling training sessions.I hear rehydrate that sounds like u fo right back to training...thats what u said and thats how it sounds,lol..now u r saying something completly diff,lol....whata going on here??? Is it me?
    I do long training sessions 3 or 4 days per week typically, but I am not lifting heavy the full length of time.

    I'll break down what I do: 5/3/1 with Periodization Bible assistance work (high volume for assistance)

    With 5/3/1, you focus on the big 4 movements. Squat, deadlift, OH strict press, bench...but not necessarily in that order.

    Each day I train, one of these movements is the focus for that day. So on my squat day, I will squat heavy according to the 5/3/1 method, then for assistance work I will do things like split squats, GHRs, lunges at high volume. This takes less than an hour, but my workout is not yet done. I then usually do conditioning work after each session. I will take the prowler out for 20min or so, or do barbell complexes. Sometimes when pressed for time in a given week, I will squat and press on the same day, and also fit in my assistance work. On these days I definitely break between my lower body work and upper body, eat a macro bar and some extra protein then continue on.

    To make a long story short, none of my full workouts are less than an hour, but I am not training heavy throughout the full workout. I train heavy/then medium for assistance work/then light for conditioning work. It works out well that way for me. I don't necessarily break for 10-15min while I eat a snack though. Sometimes I will sit for 5 min, munch down a bar and my coconut water and continue on. Depends on the day.
    Millennium Sport Technologies Representative
    www . millenniumsport . net
  28. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,735
    Rep Power
    2611772
    Level
    107
    Lv. Percent
    25.87%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    i would not advise eating solid foods within the training period, for a variety of reasons.
    liquid nutrition for extended training periods is best..
    even bcaas preferable to drinking whey within the session.
  29. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Jay888999 View Post
    Seems like overkill and 2 hrs is wat long...why so many warmup sets..I only warm up through my first exercise and everything is else is working sets with only mt last set to complete failure or if i have a apotter forced reps..Dont see why so many compounds in one day.Why shoulders and chest together??

    No no side raises for mid delts ? No upright rows for hitting the while shoulder???

    But whatever works,i personally dont see this being 100 % effective,but thats me...
    3 warm up sets is nothing. Even on speed days, I do 5-6 warm up sets before I start the working sets. Most people do not warm up optimally and, as a result, lower their strength potential.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  30. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,735
    Rep Power
    2611772
    Level
    107
    Lv. Percent
    25.87%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    3 warm up sets is nothing. Even on speed days, I do 5-6 warm up sets before I start the working sets. Most people do not warm up optimally and, as a result, lower their strength potential.
    for arguments sake -
    there is a conflicting opinion out there that says "warm-up theory" is overrated and not required at all.
    diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.
  31. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    for arguments sake -
    there is a conflicting opinion out there that says "warm-up theory" is overrated and not required at all.
    diffrent strokes for diffrent folks.
    Curious to hear the rationale behind that.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  32. Senior Member
    saggy321's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2009
    Posts
    1,393
    Rep Power
    116674
    Level
    38
    Lv. Percent
    81.64%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by HondaV65 View Post
    I train heavy - and fasted.

    I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.

    I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.

    Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.

    First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit

    1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)

    2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.

    5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

    Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.

    Also - Iím 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!
    Yes but you don't do heavy high volume all over body workout. Doing heavy deads, bentover rows, chest, shoulders and legs in the same workout is a whole different workout.
  33. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,735
    Rep Power
    2611772
    Level
    107
    Lv. Percent
    25.87%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Curious to hear the rationale behind that.
    a warm-up is meant to be simply an injury prevention technique, nothing more.
    this "amount" is different for each individual, depending on a few factors (weights being moved, experience, etc etc)

    look at your powerlifters, performing in a meet..they don't do set after set of warm-ups. it would simply tire them out.
    very few "warm-ups" are needed to perform at maximal strength.

    for me, i hit 2 warms:
    135x10
    225x8

    then. i hit my working sets @ 275+

    my main warm-up is the 7-minute light cardio i do before i touch a weight, to get bloodflow going.
  34. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    a warm-up is meant to be simply an injury prevention technique, nothing more.
    this "amount" is different for each individual, depending on a few factors (weights being moved, experience, etc etc)

    look at your powerlifters, performing in a meet..they don't do set after set of warm-ups. it would simply tire them out.
    very few "warm-ups" are needed to perform at maximal strength.

    for me, i hit 2 warms:
    135x10
    225x8

    then. i hit my working sets @ 275+

    my main warm-up is the 7-minute light cardio i do before i touch a weight, to get bloodflow going.
    This is far from true. The back is full of guys doing many warm up sets before they even get on the platform, especially if they're in gear.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  35. Diamond Member
    snagencyV2.0's Avatar
    Stats
    5'9"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Posts
    10,735
    Rep Power
    2611772
    Level
    107
    Lv. Percent
    25.87%
    Achievements Activity AuthorityActivity ProActivity VeteranActivity RoyaltyPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This is far from true. The back is full of guys doing many warm up sets before they even get on the platform, especially if they're in gear.
    and i'll say in my experience, i have seen the opposite.
    as i said - whatever works for you. i'm not here to say "do it this way, it's the only way"..
    i just feel there are more options than you have painted in your previous post re. "warming up".
  36. New Member
    rw357's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jun 2011
    Posts
    75
    Rep Power
    2617
    Level
    8
    Lv. Percent
    46.01%

    Thanks for all the replies.

    As for how tired I am at the end, I am capable of still doing 20-30 minutes of moderate cardio (which I rarely do after the heavy lift). I generally am tired after I do deadlifts, but I find if I do deadlifts first, I am still tired. It is also the "hill" when I do HIIT. Thats the exercise where I mentally say "I will WIN." Last time I lifted, just to see how I tired I am, and I went and benched the heaviest weight I did when I started the day. My last two sets were 275, and I got 4 and 3 (maybe 2.95 I don't trust the spotters honesty). Going back, I was able to squeeze 275 about 1 3/4 times, and I think it was my shoulders that were the limiting factor. So while I am tired and I burned a lot of energy, I am not completely drained.

    I really appreciate the comments, I really do appreciate them.

    Btw, on the glycogen debate, in a couple of weeks I will be going pure keto diet with AndroLean up. Right now I have a low carb diet. I find when I am on atkins or modified atkins diet, I have nearly unlimited energy. I used to rune 3.5-4 miles at a sub 7 minute mile after doing lifts, and still didn't feel drained. I have stubby legs (29 inches) and was sizeable, so that time was very good for me. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but I actually need to have low carbs to lose weight/maintain. AndroLean, atkins, and 2 weeks into Alphamine, and super strict workouts: I haven't been so psyched to lift in years.
  37. New Member
    NYiron's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  215 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2010
    Posts
    431
    Rep Power
    36882
    Level
    20
    Lv. Percent
    90.27%

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja

    This is far from true. The back is full of guys doing many warm up sets before they even get on the platform, especially if they're in gear.
    ^ Agreed. I am sorry snagency but what you are saying is incorrect.

    http://www.elitetrack.com/article_fi...owerevents.pdf

    http://www.unm.edu/~lkravitz/Article...vationUNM.html

    Both articles provide information on performance enhancing effects of warm-up techniques. The articles both explain how warm up techniques result in greater CNS activation in preparation for working sets. This activation results in greater motor unit recruitment and a phenomenon called post activation potentiation.
  38. Professional Member
    napalm's Avatar
    Stats
    5'7"  202 lbs.
    Join Date
    Nov 2011
    Age
    50
    Posts
    4,230
    Rep Power
    431288
    Level
    55
    Lv. Percent
    8.06%
    Achievements Activity ProPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0

    look at your powerlifters, performing in a meet..they don't do set after set of warm-ups. it would simply tire them out.
    very few "warm-ups" are needed to perform at maximal strength.
    This is just wrong. I warm up to around 75% on all three lifts. This equates to ~ 6-8 sets. If my wt class is big, I'll go back and do some triples w around 60-65% just to stay warm every 20 minutes or so
  39. Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,563
    Rep Power
    1215354
    Level
    93
    Lv. Percent
    60.38%
    Achievements Activity RoyaltyActivity VeteranActivity ProActivity AuthorityPosting Pro

    Quote Originally Posted by snagencyV2.0 View Post
    and i'll say in my experience, i have seen the opposite.
    as i said - whatever works for you. i'm not here to say "do it this way, it's the only way"..
    i just feel there are more options than you have painted in your previous post re. "warming up".
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm sure you're not working up to >90% at any point and, if you are, you could benefit from doing more sets before working up. The big misconception is the amount of reps that are done for a warm up set. Anything more than 2-3 reps is kinda pointless since you start to dip into a different energy system.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
    Performax Labs Product Specialist

  40. Banned
    chil's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  185 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2012
    Posts
    163
    Rep Power
    0
    Level
    11
    Lv. Percent
    93.01%

    if your worried about glycogen.. drink a gatorade brah..... i dont believe in the minute mark, i work concrete 10 hours a day and workout for 2 hours after that... accoridng to "scientific research" i should be burning all my muscle but im not ya know why?.... because i eat to support to physical activity... its simple, the more you workout the more you eat and you will be golden IMO
  

  
 

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 6
    Last Post: 05-16-2009, 06:21 AM
  2. Would 1,4 ad last longer than 1ad?
    By cubical in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 03-05-2005, 04:24 PM
  3. M1T longer than two weeks?
    By Warhead_321 in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 4
    Last Post: 05-22-2004, 11:03 PM
  4. Are peanuts THAT bad?
    By Alt+F4 in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 13
    Last Post: 05-20-2004, 10:58 PM
  5. teenage steroid use on 60 minutes at 8pm
    By ps24eva in forum General Chat
    Replies: 34
    Last Post: 03-10-2004, 05:17 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  
Log in
Log in