Are heavy workouts longer than 60 minutes that bad for strength/growth?
- 08-14-2012, 09:24 AM
Are heavy workouts longer than 60 minutes that bad for strength/growth?
I do a full body workout, where depending on exercise I take 2-4 minutes of rest. My workout is full body, bench, deadlifts, pulldowns, barbell rows, lever squats, and shoulder press. I do about 30 working sets, 5 chest, 4 shoulders, 14 back (not including deadlifts), and 9ish legs, which is 32 sets. My rep ranges are mostly 6-8, some dip down to 3-4.
It takes me north of 90 minutes to finish.
I have read that workouts over 60 minutes are less effective. I have had gains doing this before, but if I really have to, I will strip out back/deadlifts and do chest/shoulders/legs on another day.
- 08-14-2012, 01:23 PM
People get too hung up on the time. It's more about the volume. If it's working for you why change it.
- 08-14-2012, 06:11 PM
You're trying to cram a weeks worth of volume into one training session? Are you limited in the days you can be in the gym??
08-14-2012, 06:28 PM
Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.
This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.
IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.
Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.
08-14-2012, 06:29 PM
Does this change while on anabolics?Originally Posted by Jiigzz
Email me for free prodigy samples
08-14-2012, 06:41 PM
08-14-2012, 07:36 PM
I think this workout would be ok, might help some if you drink something with carbs in it during workout. The main reason the longer workouts are questionable are you running low on energy (so later exercises not as intense) and that your cortisol levels start to rise. carbs intraworkout will help with both
08-14-2012, 07:44 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
08-14-2012, 07:57 PM
im in and out of the gym in 40-50 mins 9 out of 10 times. anywhere form 3-5 exercises,depending body prt,3-4 sets each and rst time of 45 secs to 90secs
08-14-2012, 09:53 PM
I know that I personally cannot mentally focus to my all into 30 working sets a workout. Especially if it's not bodybuilding isolation easy stuff.
08-14-2012, 09:57 PM
As to why I only do 1 heavy day, I am trying to lose fat as my primary goal. For the week, I will work with weights 3 times a week, in general. One day a week, I allow myself heavy weights. The other two days, I am doing light weight with very short rest periods as a form of HIIT. This is geared for fat loss.
The heavy day is more for personal satisfaction. I hate getting weaker, however, I need to lose weight more than I need to gain muscle. My question is really based around, I am still going to get good hypertrophy if my workout is longer than 60 minutes. I only do 6 exercises (if you count multiple grips/angles on pull downs, 7.5 exercises), but it just takes me longer than 60 minutes. Its 30+ sets, no more than 8 reps, but with long rest periods, I get over 60 minutes. I am more like 105 minutes total on average. At the end, I can still deadlift considerably more than I weight (limiting factor is my girlish hands, I have to try that hook grip).
Pre workout I am using muscle marinade and drinking about 15gr of liquid whey. During the workout I have two electrolyte tabs and 15-25 grams of whey. This helps me keep my energy up.
I workout about 4.5 times a week (9 times every two weeks). But in those two weeks, I have only 2 workouts that would be geared does strength gains. I am asking if I have to break that into 4 and see if I can squeeze more days in.
08-15-2012, 03:31 AM
The rest periods between sets on your lighter days should be short if you're considering it HIT. 60 seconds between sets would be pretty ideal. Strength training = longer resting time between sets, hypertrophy/volume = shorter resting time between sets.
Also I have small hands and the hook grip doesn't really work well for me. I can only get my thumb under my index and middle finger so it makes it pretty awkward.
08-15-2012, 04:51 AM
I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.
But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.
I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?
08-15-2012, 08:09 AM
08-15-2012, 08:37 AM
I love training but hate being at the gym..**** loads of rude,arrogant and anjoying ppl..I keep my head down,try to be and look as anti social and unfriendly as possible and leave. Back is usually 6 exercises including traps..Shoulders 5-6 exercises( 1 pressing front delt movement,front iso raises,side lateral raises,rverse flys,sometimes finish with upright rows and traps on shoulder day as well).. chest 3-4 exer,bis 2 exercises,tricep 4 exercises and legs 2(smith mach or bb squat,ass to grass and deep leg presses and im done!! I keep it simple...Originally Posted by boogyman
08-15-2012, 08:47 AM
08-15-2012, 09:22 AM
This is the beauty of the 531. You can lift heavy, do some accessory stuff, and still be in and out in an hour.
08-15-2012, 09:30 AM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
08-15-2012, 11:02 AM
I train heavy - and fasted.
I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.
I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.
Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.
First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit
1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)
2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.
3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.
4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.
5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.
Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.
Also - I’m 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!
08-15-2012, 11:12 AM
Seems like overkill and 2 hrs is wat long...why so many warmup sets..I only warm up through my first exercise and everything is else is working sets with only mt last set to complete failure or if i have a apotter forced reps..Dont see why so many compounds in one day.Why shoulders and chest together??Originally Posted by HondaV65
No no side raises for mid delts ? No upright rows for hitting the while shoulder???
But whatever works,i personally dont see this being 100 % effective,but thats me...
08-15-2012, 11:15 AM
08-15-2012, 11:17 AM
08-15-2012, 11:18 AM
So u break 10-15 mins and eat food...yet from what i know it takes atleaat 60 -90 mins for everything to break down and why would you workout on a full stomach ?Originally Posted by Gutterpump
08-15-2012, 11:19 AM
I don't workout on a full stomach, I'd be falling asleep. I eat a macro bar or something light. Just a snack along with some coconut water or something with salt/potassium.
I get all my strength training done in less than an hour, then I do conditioning work usually (barbell complexes, prowler, etc - which in fact help with recovery)
08-15-2012, 11:25 AM
Above..u said i will break 10-15 mins and eat carbs n protein to rehydrate when doing ling training sessions.I hear rehydrate that sounds like u fo right back to training...thats what u said and thats how it sounds,lol..now u r saying something completly diff,lol....whata going on here??? Is it me?Originally Posted by Gutterpump
08-15-2012, 11:29 AM
as a general rule, it is not advised to train 90min+, simply because "natural state" ie no anabolics combined with the usual layman's lack of knowledge on nutritional/supplemental preparation for these sessions, is a recipe for overtraining.
your nutritional approach seems solid, rest periods on those heavy days appropriate..as long as your other days are not suffering, i see nothing wrong with your approach.
end point: it is not simply a matter of making a general statement of "x amount of time is too long to be in the gym"
there are many variables to be considered to quantify what is appropriate for "how long"/qualify what is deemed "too long".
08-15-2012, 11:37 AM
I'll break down what I do: 5/3/1 with Periodization Bible assistance work (high volume for assistance)
With 5/3/1, you focus on the big 4 movements. Squat, deadlift, OH strict press, bench...but not necessarily in that order.
Each day I train, one of these movements is the focus for that day. So on my squat day, I will squat heavy according to the 5/3/1 method, then for assistance work I will do things like split squats, GHRs, lunges at high volume. This takes less than an hour, but my workout is not yet done. I then usually do conditioning work after each session. I will take the prowler out for 20min or so, or do barbell complexes. Sometimes when pressed for time in a given week, I will squat and press on the same day, and also fit in my assistance work. On these days I definitely break between my lower body work and upper body, eat a macro bar and some extra protein then continue on.
To make a long story short, none of my full workouts are less than an hour, but I am not training heavy throughout the full workout. I train heavy/then medium for assistance work/then light for conditioning work. It works out well that way for me. I don't necessarily break for 10-15min while I eat a snack though. Sometimes I will sit for 5 min, munch down a bar and my coconut water and continue on. Depends on the day.
08-15-2012, 11:41 AM
i would not advise eating solid foods within the training period, for a variety of reasons.
liquid nutrition for extended training periods is best..
even bcaas preferable to drinking whey within the session.
08-15-2012, 11:44 AM
08-15-2012, 11:47 AM
08-15-2012, 11:58 AM
08-15-2012, 12:04 PM
08-15-2012, 12:15 PM
this "amount" is different for each individual, depending on a few factors (weights being moved, experience, etc etc)
look at your powerlifters, performing in a meet..they don't do set after set of warm-ups. it would simply tire them out.
very few "warm-ups" are needed to perform at maximal strength.
for me, i hit 2 warms:
then. i hit my working sets @ 275+
my main warm-up is the 7-minute light cardio i do before i touch a weight, to get bloodflow going.
08-15-2012, 12:19 PM
08-15-2012, 12:23 PM
08-15-2012, 12:30 PM
Thanks for all the replies.
As for how tired I am at the end, I am capable of still doing 20-30 minutes of moderate cardio (which I rarely do after the heavy lift). I generally am tired after I do deadlifts, but I find if I do deadlifts first, I am still tired. It is also the "hill" when I do HIIT. Thats the exercise where I mentally say "I will WIN." Last time I lifted, just to see how I tired I am, and I went and benched the heaviest weight I did when I started the day. My last two sets were 275, and I got 4 and 3 (maybe 2.95 I don't trust the spotters honesty). Going back, I was able to squeeze 275 about 1 3/4 times, and I think it was my shoulders that were the limiting factor. So while I am tired and I burned a lot of energy, I am not completely drained.
I really appreciate the comments, I really do appreciate them.
Btw, on the glycogen debate, in a couple of weeks I will be going pure keto diet with AndroLean up. Right now I have a low carb diet. I find when I am on atkins or modified atkins diet, I have nearly unlimited energy. I used to rune 3.5-4 miles at a sub 7 minute mile after doing lifts, and still didn't feel drained. I have stubby legs (29 inches) and was sizeable, so that time was very good for me. I know it doesn't work for everyone, but I actually need to have low carbs to lose weight/maintain. AndroLean, atkins, and 2 weeks into Alphamine, and super strict workouts: I haven't been so psyched to lift in years.
08-15-2012, 12:36 PM
^ Agreed. I am sorry snagency but what you are saying is incorrect.Originally Posted by Rodja
Both articles provide information on performance enhancing effects of warm-up techniques. The articles both explain how warm up techniques result in greater CNS activation in preparation for working sets. This activation results in greater motor unit recruitment and a phenomenon called post activation potentiation.
08-15-2012, 12:44 PM
This is just wrong. I warm up to around 75% on all three lifts. This equates to ~ 6-8 sets. If my wt class is big, I'll go back and do some triples w around 60-65% just to stay warm every 20 minutes or soOriginally Posted by snagencyV2.0
08-15-2012, 12:48 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
08-15-2012, 12:54 PM
if your worried about glycogen.. drink a gatorade brah..... i dont believe in the minute mark, i work concrete 10 hours a day and workout for 2 hours after that... accoridng to "scientific research" i should be burning all my muscle but im not ya know why?.... because i eat to support to physical activity... its simple, the more you workout the more you eat and you will be golden IMO
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