Are heavy workouts longer than 60 minutes that bad for strength/growth?

[rw357]

I do a full body workout, where depending on exercise I take 2-4 minutes of rest. My workout is full body, bench, deadlifts, pulldowns, barbell rows, lever squats, and shoulder press. I do about 30 working sets, 5 chest, 4 shoulders, 14 back (not including deadlifts), and 9ish legs, which is 32 sets. My rep ranges are mostly 6-8, some dip down to 3-4.

It takes me north of 90 minutes to finish.

I have read that workouts over 60 minutes are less effective. I have had gains doing this before, but if I really have to, I will strip out back/deadlifts and do chest/shoulders/legs on another day.

[Mr.Sinister]

People get too hung up on the time. It's more about the volume. If it's working for you why change it.

[RicFlair]

You're trying to cram a weeks worth of volume into one training session? Are you limited in the days you can be in the gym??

[Jiigzz]

Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.

[howwedo107]

Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.

Does this change while on anabolics?

[Jiigzz]

Does this change while on anabolics?

Perhaps. However you will still get fatigued on anabolics, but if you can still progress because the strength gains compensate for the fatigue then you can stimulate growth. Tbh I havent given it much thought

[EasyEJL]

I think this workout would be ok, might help some if you drink something with carbs in it during workout. The main reason the longer workouts are questionable are you running low on energy (so later exercises not as intense) and that your cortisol levels start to rise. carbs intraworkout will help with both

[Rodja]

Actually, there is science behind taking less time to complete a workout. However its easier for you to understand from a productivity point of view. Firstly, if you have a set pattern of performing an exercise routine i.e. bench first, then dead lifts, then OHP or whatever it may be, then you are always performing the first few exercises at max. intensity (or close to) as your muscles and muscle glycogen levels will be at their peak. However after 20-30minutes intensity drops considerably when muscle glycogen levels drop and your brain and muscles are now fighting for the remainder of your glycogen. So if your squatting or doing leg exercises (or any exercise) after the 60 minute mark, you are more than likely only performing at minimal intensity.

This will hinder growth. Say, for example if you can squat 200lbs for 8 reps if its the first exercise you do on one day (i.e. as soon as you enter gym) then on another day you perform the squat again but after the 60 minute mark, you will find that the weight or reps performed will be lower due to fatigue. Will then cause you to grow? No. Simply because you are not longer progressing.

IMO spread it out over 3-4 days to allow as maximal intensity for each exercise as you possibly can.

Also, its unclear but if you do full body every day and take 90 minutes every day, 3-4-5 days a week, you are not allowing individual muscle groups to fully recover.

Sorry, but this is total crap. Glycogen levels are not going to significantly drop that quickly unless you are already depleted going into the session. The whole idea trying to limit to workout to XX amount of minutes makes little sense as you cannot put a blanket statement on training like that as it is completely subjective. A dude squatting 800 is going to take a lot longer to finish a session than a dude that squats 400 simply because it will take longer to work up to the higher weights. The problem is that work capacity is rarely stressed because most do not understand its importance.

[Jay888999]

im in and out of the gym in 40-50 mins 9 out of 10 times. anywhere form 3-5 exercises,depending body prt,3-4 sets each and rst time of 45 secs to 90secs

[RicFlair]

I know that I personally cannot mentally focus to my all into 30 working sets a workout. Especially if it's not bodybuilding isolation easy stuff.

[rw357]

As to why I only do 1 heavy day, I am trying to lose fat as my primary goal. For the week, I will work with weights 3 times a week, in general. One day a week, I allow myself heavy weights. The other two days, I am doing light weight with very short rest periods as a form of HIIT. This is geared for fat loss.

The heavy day is more for personal satisfaction. I hate getting weaker, however, I need to lose weight more than I need to gain muscle. My question is really based around, I am still going to get good hypertrophy if my workout is longer than 60 minutes. I only do 6 exercises (if you count multiple grips/angles on pull downs, 7.5 exercises), but it just takes me longer than 60 minutes. Its 30+ sets, no more than 8 reps, but with long rest periods, I get over 60 minutes. I am more like 105 minutes total on average. At the end, I can still deadlift considerably more than I weight (limiting factor is my girlish hands, I have to try that hook grip).

Pre workout I am using muscle marinade and drinking about 15gr of liquid whey. During the workout I have two electrolyte tabs and 15-25 grams of whey. This helps me keep my energy up.

I workout about 4.5 times a week (9 times every two weeks). But in those two weeks, I have only 2 workouts that would be geared does strength gains. I am asking if I have to break that into 4 and see if I can squeeze more days in.

[broda]

The rest periods between sets on your lighter days should be short if you're considering it HIT. 60 seconds between sets would be pretty ideal. Strength training = longer resting time between sets, hypertrophy/volume = shorter resting time between sets.

Also I have small hands and the hook grip doesn't really work well for me. I can only get my thumb under my index and middle finger so it makes it pretty awkward.

[Jiigzz]

Sorry, but this is total crap. Glycogen levels are not going to significantly drop that quickly unless you are already depleted going into the session. The whole idea trying to limit to workout to XX amount of minutes makes little sense as you cannot put a blanket statement on training like that as it is completely subjective. A dude squatting 800 is going to take a lot longer to finish a session than a dude that squats 400 simply because it will take longer to work up to the higher weights. The problem is that work capacity is rarely stressed because most do not understand its importance.

It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?

[boogyman]

im in and out of the gym in 40-50 mins 9 out of 10 times. anywhere form 3-5 exercises,depending body prt,3-4 sets each and rst time of 45 secs to 90secs

This. I simply don't have the time in a day to spend more than an hour working out. I do rest a little longer then you, but rarely do more than 4 movents, usually 3. I lengthen my rest by about 1 minute each set, depending on movement.

[Jay888999]

This. I simply don't have the time in a day to spend more than an hour working out. I do rest a little longer then you, but rarely do more than 4 movents, usually 3. I lengthen my rest by about 1 minute each set, depending on movement.

I love training but hate being at the gym..**** loads of rude,arrogant and anjoying ppl..I keep my head down,try to be and look as anti social and unfriendly as possible and leave. Back is usually 6 exercises including traps..Shoulders 5-6 exercises( 1 pressing front delt movement,front iso raises,side lateral raises,rverse flys,sometimes finish with upright rows and traps on shoulder day as well).. chest 3-4 exer,bis 2 exercises,tricep 4 exercises and legs 2(smith mach or bb squat,ass to grass and deep leg presses and im done!! I keep it simple...

[saggy321]

It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?

A very valid point. There is point in a workout of diminishing returns as there is with anything. The question, I guess, should be when in the workout does the OP feel fatigue. If he feels tired half way through and continues to push his body by lifting heavy weights for a further 45 minutes then one could argue that he is either not able to muster the required intensity to be of any benefit in the second half of the workout or he could be overtraining or a combination of both. Also how does the OP feel after the workout and how long does it take to recover.

[boogyman]

This is the beauty of the 531. You can lift heavy, do some accessory stuff, and still be in and out in an hour.

[Rodja]

It is well researched that muscle glycogen levels will drop quite low within the hour; maybe not to depletion but enough to contest the need for liver and blood glycogen, hence the research that supports the use of carb-loaded beverages during exericse that exceeds one hour. Although much of the research is on aerobic exercise, I would argue (maybe wrongly but I digress) that anaerobic high intensity work will also need carbo replenishment as glucose will be the primary source of fuel during the exercise. If aerobic exercise requires glycose replenishment (even though the majority of fuel will be derived from fat), then id assume anaerobic exercise which relies almost completly on the phosphocreatine system and glycolytic system will also need fuelling around the 60minute mark, if not before.

I agree that there is no set time frame in which any exercise program SHOULD be completed, and any idea that over a set time and the body gets to catabolic is nonsense in my view; although tbh I havent put much effort into researching this area.

But maybe you'd agree that attempting to maintain high intensity work over the 32 sets of work he is performing is damn near hard, and he will almost likely suffer some from of fatigue during this time that may inhibit his ability to perform well (and with good form) all the exercises.

I get what your saying about the guy squatting 800lbs; but if I was Deadlifting, Benching, OHPing before I did my Squat sets; I know that my form and max. intensity will be lower than if I had just started my Squat sets from the start.
perhaps thats just because im not conditioned to work this way?

Post said research showing that glycogen levels significantly drop within an hour in non-depleted subjects. I'm by no means arguing for a that amount of volume in one day as it is counterproductive in a hypertrophic (be it sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar), but that is not the goal of that particular session for him. However, it will do a something that will greatly benefit his heavy days; it will take his conditioning to a very high level and will increase both his work capacity and recovery between sessions. As I said earlier, most templates out there are poorly designed because there is zero emphasis on conditioning and, as a generality, BB'ers are in terrible shape with a very low CV threshold.

[HondaV65]

I train heavy - and fasted.

I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.

I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.

Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.

First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit

1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)

2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.

5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.

Also - I’m 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!

[Jay888999]

I train heavy - and fasted.

I hit the gym at 0500 each weekday.

I usually walk out of the gym between 0645 and 0700.

Here's a chest / shoulders day ... in pretty much the order I do it.

First - do 30 push-ups to warm up a bit

1. Flat Bench: 3 Warm Up sets then FIVE sets at max (2 minute rest between sets)

2. Overhead BB Press: One warm up set - then FIVE sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

3. Incline Bench: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the pec dec machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

4. Dumbell Flies: One warm up set - then Five sets at max. After each set I hit the shoulder-fly machine for another 10 reps than 2 minutes rest.

5. Decline Press Machine (one of those "rock-it" machines) - load that up with 8 plates and do five sets at max. After each set I hit the "dip" machine for another 10 reps then 2 minutes rest.

Takes me almost 2 hours to get through that but my chest is coming along well and the shoulders are freakish.

Also - I'm 50 years old - **** that **** about 45 minute workouts with no rest between sets. They can kiss my ass Imma old!

Seems like overkill and 2 hrs is wat long...why so many warmup sets..I only warm up through my first exercise and everything is else is working sets with only mt last set to complete failure or if i have a apotter forced reps..Dont see why so many compounds in one day.Why shoulders and chest together??

No no side raises for mid delts ? No upright rows for hitting the while shoulder???

But whatever works,i personally dont see this being 100 % effective,but thats me...