ws4sb vs 5/3/1

  1. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    ws4sb vs 5/3/1


    Is there a major difference between the 2?

  2. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,075
    Rep Power
    917999

    Huge difference.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  3. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    I know a lot of places suggest switching up between the 2, is that really necessary?
    I was reading some places they are more focused on catering to the needs of a powerlifter, not someone trying to gain mass; which is what I am shooting for..
    •   
       

  4. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,075
    Rep Power
    917999

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    I know a lot of places suggest switching up between the 2, is that really necessary?
    I was reading some places they are more focused on catering to the needs of a powerlifter, not someone trying to gain mass; which is what I am shooting for..
    A stronger muscle has the potential to be a bigger muscle. Anyone who says that you can't gain a significant amount of mass with either of these programs is an idiot.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  5. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    Which would you recommend out of the 2?
  6. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,075
    Rep Power
    917999

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    Which would you recommend out of the 2?
    For what purpose?
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  7. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    For what purpose?
    Mass building..
    I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
    Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
  8. Registered User
    DirtyPlymouth's Avatar
    Stats
    6'4"  245 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2012
    Posts
    11
    Rep Power
    0

    I recommend 5/3/1. It's MUCH less complex than WS4SB, allows for more flexibility and customization (volume exercises), but most importantly, it works!

    I gained 60lbs on my squat (390 to 450) and 70lbs on my deadlift ( 495 to 565) over the course of 3 months. My results werent the norm (only 10lbs per month is the norm) but im def not complaining.

    It didnt add much to my bench or shoulder, well, it added 5lbs a month, which is what the program is designed to do, but I wasn't satisfied.

    Literally everyone I've talked to that uses the 5/3/1 loves it
  9. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,075
    Rep Power
    917999

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    Mass building..
    I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
    Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
    They can both be used effectively for mass building.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  10. Registered User
    Lacrossedude6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    330
    Rep Power
    7640

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo
    Is there a major difference between the 2?
    Both are excellent templates. I like to do WS4SB in season for my sport, in the off season which is about 6 months long, I like to do 5/3/1 and do a cycle. Both will pack on mass if your diet is in check.
  11. Registered User
    kingk0ng's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, TN
    Age
    29
    Posts
    743
    Rep Power
    122328

    Pure strength = 5/3/1.

    Athletic enhancement = WS4SB.

    Both are great programs and there's a huge difference in the focus of each program. 5/3/1 is a great strength enhancer and WS4SB is a great athletic enhancer. You'll gain pure strength on both, and athletic enhancement on both, but one is specialized to build endurance, strength, flexibility, hypertrophy and speed and the other is more focused on putting 100% focus on strength.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  12. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
  13. Registered User
    Lacrossedude6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    330
    Rep Power
    7640

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo
    I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
    No, it doesn't work like that. The 5/3/1 is based on progression from week to week. So that wouldn't work. Pick one and stick to it for months, and even Years.
  14. Registered User
    Swanson52's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  300 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nefukkinbraska
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,075
    Rep Power
    532236

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    Mass building..
    I have been keeping my workouts to 6-10 x 2..and going up as much as I can, I also added decline BP to my routine and took out DB presses for chest..I plateaued on my squats which sucks =\
    Today I am shooting for adding 10 lbs to the bar (I usually put up about 150-160) and hopefully I don't run into any problems.
    How you eat will determine your mass gain more than training 5/3/1 vs WS4SB.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  15. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
  16. Registered User
    benmayro's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  190 lbs.
    Join Date
    Mar 2012
    Location
    Pa
    Posts
    1,914
    Rep Power
    128834

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo
    While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
    eat, every two hours.. Dont eat because your hungry. Treat it like a workout.. Be like im going to go eat some pb at 2. Than at 2 go and eat PB
    http://anabolicminds.com/forum/training-forum/198788-highschool-athlete-thread.html
  17. Registered User
    Swanson52's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  300 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nefukkinbraska
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,075
    Rep Power
    532236

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
    That I can't help you with...I'm on the total endomorph end of things so eating has never been my issue.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  18. Registered User
    Lacrossedude6's Avatar
    Stats
    6'0"  201 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    330
    Rep Power
    7640

    I would rather miss an entire workout than just 1 meal! That's how you need to think. Diet is 50% of the equation in gaining. The other 30%is sleep and 20% is training.
  19. Registered User
    kingk0ng's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, TN
    Age
    29
    Posts
    743
    Rep Power
    122328

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    While I have people's attention here: any ideas on how I can train myself to eat more?
    I think most of the other posters already covered this, but don't do the program one week this and one week that. That's not enough time for any routine to serve as effective. You don't go from medicore to a success in a week. To become a Doctor it takes 8 years, to become a nurse in takes 2-4, to become a Marine it takes 3 months plus preparation. Why would only a week account for success in transformation of your body? Believe me, it takes longer than that. Some can do it in just a few months, and for some it takes years, but only the dedicated overcome those odds. You can't just give it a week and expect anything to happen, you have to bust your ass with each program for months.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  20. Registered User
    broda's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  167 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    750
    Rep Power
    24698

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    I'll just run with both I guess..one week WS4SB and then another week the 5/3/1..diet I'm working on, but on the brighter side, my stomach is as flat as ever according to my girlfriend I have a "wingspan" now lol.
    I'd say just pick one for a solid 6 months and then try the other one. 5/3/1 first for just general strength which you can translate over into the WS4SB for training explosive strength if you'd want to switch. Just a recommendation.
  21. Registered User
    fadi's Avatar
    Stats
    6'1"   lbs.
    Join Date
    Jun 2004
    Location
    San Antonio
    Age
    42
    Posts
    1,163
    Rep Power
    3103

    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    They can both be used effectively for mass building.
    I would love to hear your view on each comparing them and the benefit of each. which would you recommend to what type of goal.
  22. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    I think most of the other posters already covered this, but don't do the program one week this and one week that. That's not enough time for any routine to serve as effective. You don't go from medicore to a success in a week. To become a Doctor it takes 8 years, to become a nurse in takes 2-4, to become a Marine it takes 3 months plus preparation. Why would only a week account for success in transformation of your body? Believe me, it takes longer than that. Some can do it in just a few months, and for some it takes years, but only the dedicated overcome those odds. You can't just give it a week and expect anything to happen, you have to bust your ass with each program for months.
    My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
  23. Registered User
    Swanson52's Avatar
    Stats
    6'2"  300 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jul 2003
    Location
    Nefukkinbraska
    Age
    39
    Posts
    3,075
    Rep Power
    532236

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
    Progressive resistance with a periodic deload will keep your muscles from "getting used to" either of the routines referenced in the OP.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
  24. Registered User
    broda's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  167 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    750
    Rep Power
    24698

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
    As long as you're progressing with weight it'll keep up the additional stimuli for muscle growth. It's not going to magically stop within a month or two. You don't need to completely change routines either. You can just rotate different exercises into your current program every month for the whole 'muscle confusion' thing.
  25. Registered User
    niZmo's Avatar
    Stats
    5'6"  144 lbs.
    Join Date
    Apr 2012
    Location
    Avenel, NJ
    Age
    27
    Posts
    136
    Rep Power
    166

    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    As long as you're progressing with weight it'll keep up the additional stimuli for muscle growth. It's not going to magically stop within a month or two. You don't need to completely change routines either. You can just rotate different exercises into your current program every month for the whole 'muscle confusion' thing.
    Ok thanks..I have kinda hit a plateau, and been stuck there for a while..my BP is at 170x10 (widegrip) and my curls are at 35's everything else is going up but those two..any ideas on switching up exercises? I thought about taking out the curls and replacing them with Zottmans..but I feel like I'm going to have to drop some weight off, and I don't want to go backwards.
  26. Registered User
    broda's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  167 lbs.
    Join Date
    May 2012
    Posts
    750
    Rep Power
    24698

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    Ok thanks..I have kinda hit a plateau, and been stuck there for a while..my BP is at 170x10 (widegrip) and my curls are at 35's everything else is going up but those two..any ideas on switching up exercises? I thought about taking out the curls and replacing them with Zottmans..but I feel like I'm going to have to drop some weight off, and I don't want to go backwards.
    You could either try hitting up DBs and dropping the BB for a little while and/or hitting your triceps harder. Weighted dips are the best accessory exercise for the bench, I think. Also I personally love Zottman Curls or you could also try straight bar curls. Make sure you're working on your forearms too.
  27. oli
    oli is offline
    Registered User
    oli's Avatar
    Stats
    5'8"  197 lbs.
    Join Date
    Dec 2008
    Location
    Ridgecrest, CA
    Age
    35
    Posts
    701
    Rep Power
    13119

    if u do either..u can always swap out the assistance exercises to keep it new
  28. Running with the Big Boys
    Board Sponsor
    Rodja's Avatar
    Stats
    5'10"  220 lbs.
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Texas
    Age
    30
    Posts
    23,075
    Rep Power
    917999

    Quote Originally Posted by fadi View Post
    I would love to hear your view on each comparing them and the benefit of each. which would you recommend to what type of goal.
    5/3/1 is something that is meant for as a long-term plan (a year or so) and far too many think it is something that you can do for 3 months and expect to get the results that they desire. For the average trainee looking for some extra mass and strength, it is a great template.

    WS4SB is something that is more athletically oriented and is DeFranco's take on the conjugate system (ME days working up to a 3-5RM instead of 1-3RM). It is more elaborate and provides more volume (ergo, time in the gym) than 5/3/1 and also is a bit more balanced in terms of internal/external rotator work, variety, dynamic work, etc.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
  29. Registered User
    kingk0ng's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, TN
    Age
    29
    Posts
    743
    Rep Power
    122328

    Quote Originally Posted by niZmo View Post
    My reason for wanting to switch every is because I don't want my muscles to get used to the workout routine..I'm committing myself 150%, whether it's with either of these or another.
    As mentioned by another poster, your muscles don't get used to workout routines, they only get "used to" stimulus. If you're using progressive resistance, then your giving your body new stimulus each workout. What that means is to add weight each week, or if you can't add weight add a rep, do an extra set, slower tempo, etc. Preferably, you should add new weight. Your body doesn't get used to specific exercise and no longer respond. You just have to continually give your body something new to grow from, which is done by adding weight to exercises.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  30. Registered User
    kingk0ng's Avatar
    Stats
    5'11"  235 lbs.
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    Kingsport, TN
    Age
    29
    Posts
    743
    Rep Power
    122328

    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    You could either try hitting up DBs and dropping the BB for a little while and/or hitting your triceps harder. Weighted dips are the best accessory exercise for the bench, I think. Also I personally love Zottman Curls or you could also try straight bar curls. Make sure you're working on your forearms too.
    ^ Pretty much everything said here is great advice.

    Another thing I want to do add. I noticed you mentioned your "wide grip bench", I'm hoping that's used in reference to separate close grip bench (used as an accessory) from conventional barbell bench press. There's no use in having different grip variation (super wide, neutral).

    The pecs are hit when the body pushes in front, even with a close grip bench press the chest is still activated. If you are continually hitting the pecs at different grips, then you're not going to have a grip that you'll get used to and use to hit PR's.

    Tuck your elbows, arch your back, drive your feet into the ground, hold your breath coming up until the last inch or so of the lift and then exhale, work on your triceps with weighted dips, close grip bench press, work on your shoulders with overhead press, hit incline bench, barbell rows.

    All of those will really help you develop your bench out, but also focus on your power cleans, squats, deadlifts.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
  •   

      
     

Similar Forum Threads

  1. Replies: 19
    Last Post: 05-31-2008, 04:38 AM
  2. Ergopharm vs. IDC
    By true_c in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 12-07-2002, 08:14 AM
  3. Formasin vs. 6-oxo
    By scotty2 in forum Supplements
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-03-2002, 08:32 PM
  4. Flax vs. Hemp Oil???
    By Kay in forum Weight Loss
    Replies: 10
    Last Post: 11-21-2002, 02:26 PM
  5. THE BATTLE! 1AD vs. One+
    By MassMachine in forum Anabolics
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 10-30-2002, 03:13 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Log in

Log in