5/3/1 on cycle?

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    5/3/1 on cycle?


    I just kind of randomly thought about this earlier today.

    Has one anyone ever done 5/3/1 on cycle? I'm just curious if it would actually work since your strength will go up much faster than naturally. I just seem to think since you're using your 1RM for the month it wouldn't be as effective as doing something such as a 3x3, 5x5, reverse pyramid, etc.

    Thoughts?

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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    I just kind of randomly thought about this earlier today.

    Has one anyone ever done 5/3/1 on cycle? I'm just curious if it would actually work since your strength will go up much faster than naturally. I just seem to think since you're using your 1RM for the month it wouldn't be as effective as doing something such as a 3x3, 5x5, reverse pyramid, etc.

    Thoughts?
    Buy the book, the whole point of 5/3/1 is to run it at atually 85% of your 1RM and train under your current Training Maxes. The point is to prove you can get stronger by progression on higher reps and below the max. (Whole point of the last set being 5+ or 3+ or 1+ reps).

    I think it would work wonders, specially if you focus on the Periodization Bible by Dave Tate with 3 high volume assistance exercises. The book itself says: "Train like a bodybuilder" then again, it is a metaphor for something more complex. Anyhow, buy the book, it would work perfectly fine.
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    The actual load used for calculation on 531 is 90%. And when Wendler advises to "train like a bodybuilder," he's simply referring to maintaining symmetry in your training and nothing else. This is a strength program, plain and simple.

    That being said, it seems there's little that would inherently be affected in a negative manner if on cycle during the program. It's a phenomenal protocol as it stands, I imagine the strength increases while on certain AAS would be otherworldly.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retrofitted View Post
    The actual load used for calculation on 531 is 90%. And when Wendler advises to "train like a bodybuilder," he's simply referring to maintaining symmetry in your training and nothing else. This is a strength program, plain and simple.

    That being said, it seems there's little that would inherently be affected in a negative manner if on cycle during the program. It's a phenomenal protocol as it stands, I imagine the strength increases while on certain AAS would be otherworldly.
    You take the 95% of your 1RM and then use 90% of that for the first four weeks. If you read on it does advise re-visiting this principle numerous times whenever you are hitting a plateau on strength gains.

    I did say it comes with deeper meaning didn't I? He talks about not being overzealous of any of the aspects of lifting like conditioning, endurance, flexibility and so on and so forth, to keep a balance. Which in a way a perfect cycle and proper training demands this...So In a way we are just agreeing on the fact it works wonders and that it would be perfect on cycle right?

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    Pretty much agreed. In any case it's an awesome training method, assisted or not. Hitting plateaus on 531 is demoralizing, I must say. It's awful to hit a PR on certain movements one week and then be humbled by reps or weight the next.
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    I think you'd have to re-evaluate your training maxes while transitioning from blast to blast. As Wendler prescribes the small incremental increases, I think the supplemented trainee would have to make larger jumps.

    The only problem I'd foresee is having to possibly reduce these maxes to some degree as you come off cycle, but that's a consideration with any program.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
    You take the 95% of your 1RM and then use 90% of that for the first four weeks.

    You use 90% of your 1RM. All percentages are based on that value.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    You use 90% of your 1RM. All percentages are based on that value.
    Name:  Screen shot 2012-07-29 at 8.11.58 PM.png
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    Yeah its 90% of your 1RM I messed it up, when you use 95% in the 5/3/1 week for the last set , thats when its actually 85%. Thanks Mr. Dunn!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Swanson52 View Post
    I think you'd have to re-evaluate your training maxes while transitioning from blast to blast. As Wendler prescribes the small incremental increases, I think the supplemented trainee would have to make larger jumps.

    The only problem I'd foresee is having to possibly reduce these maxes to some degree as you come off cycle, but that's a consideration with any program.
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It was mostly referring to 4 week cycles (probably should've put that in the OP) where you only get through one 5/3/1 cycle rather than multiple. That's where I came to the idea that 5/3/1 might not work as good as other routines.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Celorza View Post
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    Yeah its 90% of your 1RM I messed it up, when you use 95% in the 5/3/1 week for the last set , thats when its actually 85%. Thanks Mr. Dunn!
    1RM x 90% = XXX

    Week 1
    65% of XXX x 5
    75% of XXX x 5
    85% of XXX x 5+

    Week 2
    70% of XXX x 3
    80% of XXX x 3
    90% of XXX x 3+

    Week 3
    75% of XXX x 5
    85% of XXX x 3
    95% of XXX x 1+

    Week 4
    40% of XXX x 5
    50% of XXX x 5
    60% of XXX x 5
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    If you have a iPhone there is a APP that works quite well. The book however is cheap and a very quick read .
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    Yeah, that's what I was thinking. It was mostly referring to 4 week cycles (probably should've put that in the OP) where you only get through one 5/3/1 cycle rather than multiple. That's where I came to the idea that 5/3/1 might not work as good as other routines.
    I think it'd be less of an issue (if an issue at all) for a very advanced lifter who has a track record of solid AAS experience. For instance someone looking to push past something like an 800# squat from 780.

    For a novice or intermediate however, I think the progress from the system itself is more than adequate for most. At least for myself it was, but I've not progressed to the point (and don't know that I ever will) where I feel I'm ready for AAS.
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    Quote Originally Posted by roblasane View Post
    If you have a iPhone there is a APP that works quite well. The book however is cheap and a very quick read .
    I love the iPhone app. Simple and very solid.
    Don't worry, man, someday I'ma be nobody too.
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    Quote Originally Posted by David Dunn View Post
    1RM x 90% = XXX

    Week 1
    65% of XXX x 5
    75% of XXX x 5
    85% of XXX x 5+

    Week 2
    70% of XXX x 3
    80% of XXX x 3
    90% of XXX x 3+

    Week 3
    75% of XXX x 5
    85% of XXX x 3
    95% of XXX x 1+

    Week 4
    40% of XXX x 5
    50% of XXX x 5
    60% of XXX x 5
    Exactly ! Thanks for chiming in Mr. Dunn!!
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    Quote Originally Posted by broda View Post
    I just kind of randomly thought about this earlier today.

    Has one anyone ever done 5/3/1 on cycle? I'm just curious if it would actually work since your strength will go up much faster than naturally. I just seem to think since you're using your 1RM for the month it wouldn't be as effective as doing something such as a 3x3, 5x5, reverse pyramid, etc.

    Thoughts?
    I personally would switch to a program that allowed faster gains while on a cycle. You could then recalculate you 1RM and go back to a 531 after your cycle ends.
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    Switch the weeks to 3/5/1 and work up to a heavy single or double on the "3" and "1" weeks.
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    Also, to be honest, I think a lot of people go to the 531 to quickly and are missing out on a lot of strength gains. I see it being suggested to newbies to people who are barely intermediate lifters and i dont agree with it for those people. Its a great program, but why limit yourself to adding weight once a month if your caple of progressing faster than that?
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