1. Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
So I just got done with my 1st day of this workout and honestly I hardly feel like I was at the gym. Did the workout like I was supposed to and I'm having doubts already haha. Here's what I did though incase I missed anything:

Bench press
Warmup
Set 1- 130x5
Set 2- 145x5
Set 3- 160x13

Bench press
Set 1- 105x10
Set 2- 105x10
Set 3- 105x10
Set 4- 105x10
Set 5- 105x22

Then I did 1 accessory workout which was cable crossover. Did 4 sets of 10 and 5th set of 16. I'm going to continue the workout and see how it goes but I definitely don't like how it's starting.

2. I have heard "buy the book" over and over, I get it. I purchased the book and I'm reading through it. I simply posted today's workout to get input from someone who has used the program because after leaving the gym I felt like I had barely been there. I followed the program the way I understood it.
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3. Originally Posted by Est1969
Matt,

So if you did Set 3 @ 160#, that implies a 1RM of 210#. Is that really your 1RM? The standard 1rm algorithm would suggest that your 1rm on the bench is at least 220# if you can do 13 reps at 160.

Thoughts?
Yeah my 1RM is 210 as of about 2 weeks ago. My 1RM never seems to equal out to what the 1RM algorithm thing says I should be able to do, it's always less. I've always done better lifting lighter with more reps if that makes sense?

4. Yep. Absolutely does. I look forward to watching your progress as the weeks add more weight.

I would also consider doing some "pull" exercises as accessories. Maybe rows on bench day and chins on military press day. Just a thought...

Keep up the good work!!

Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
Yeah my 1RM is 210 as of about 2 weeks ago. My 1RM never seems to equal out to what the 1RM algorithm thing says I should be able to do, it's always less. I've always done better lifting lighter with more reps if that makes sense?

5. He's saying buy the book because the questions you're asking are answered in it, and your posted workout does not really reflect an understanding of the program nor of having read the book. Like, I havent referenced the book since 2011 but I'm fairly certain ALL the answers you're looking for are in the first 20-30 pages or so (~40 minutes reading).
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6. Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
Yeah my 1RM is 210 as of about 2 weeks ago. My 1RM never seems to equal out to what the 1RM algorithm thing says I should be able to do, it's always less. I've always done better lifting lighter with more reps if that makes sense?

Considering training with the weights suggested in 5/3/1 protocol sort of drove me away because I am in a similar boat. I can do 235 once, 225 twice or 205 10 times or more. I don't know if it is muscle fiber composition related, cns related, or purely mental. Either way, it is a very interesting topic that I'd love to see discussed further.

Originally Posted by Torobestia
He's saying buy the book because the questions you're asking are answered in it, and your posted workout does not really reflect an understanding of the program nor of having read the book. Like, I havent referenced the book since 2011 but I'm fairly certain ALL the answers you're looking for are in the first 20-30 pages or so (~40 minutes reading).
It looks like the "boring but big" variation that I've seen referenced all over. I haven't read the book, maybe this isn't even in the book.

I think the main issue here that people are overlooking is that some people don't fit the prototypical 1RM paradigm at all and that is what is causing the confusion. If you use a 1RM max calculator and it models your 3RM and 5RM etc very well then 5/3/1 is going to make sense as it is laid out in the book. For what seems to be a minority of us, the simple program becomes confusing because we don't match documented norms.

7. Originally Posted by Lutztenways

Considering training with the weights suggested in 5/3/1 protocol sort of drove me away because I am in a similar boat. I can do 235 once, 225 twice or 205 10 times or more. I don't know if it is muscle fiber composition related, cns related, or purely mental. Either way, it is a very interesting topic that I'd love to see discussed further.

It looks like the "boring but big" variation that I've seen referenced all over. I haven't read the book, maybe this isn't even in the book.

I think the main issue here that people are overlooking is that some people don't fit the prototypical 1RM paradigm at all and that is what is causing the confusion. If you use a 1RM max calculator and it models your 3RM and 5RM etc very well then 5/3/1 is going to make sense as it is laid out in the book. For what seems to be a minority of us, the simple program becomes confusing because we don't match documented norms.
Exactly right.. I finished the book last night for all of you telling me to buy it. I was doing the boring but big program and I followed it like it said except on the 5 sets of 10 I did as many as I could on the last set. I'm just saying the formulas and 1RM calculators don't work for me. My max sucks, it always has. But I have more endurance in my opinion. After I started the program I read that there was another option for the weight %'s so I'm going to try that. Thanks to those who didn't just post to say I need to read a book.

8. I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would however, go through all four exercises at the prescribed weights and then tinker with the percentages after that. For me, Flat Bench day is the easiest (least tiring), and Deadlift day kicks my butt (doing Big but Boring).

I think Wendler would just tell you to do whatever you want. Keep posting your progress!

9. I'll definitely keep going, going to take the rest of this week to make sure my maxes are correct and start again next week.

10. Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
Yeah my 1RM is 210 as of about 2 weeks ago. My 1RM never seems to equal out to what the 1RM algorithm thing says I should be able to do, it's always less. I've always done better lifting lighter with more reps if that makes sense?
It's likely a technical deficiency.

Originally Posted by Lutztenways
Considering training with the weights suggested in 5/3/1 protocol sort of drove me away because I am in a similar boat. I can do 235 once, 225 twice or 205 10 times or more. I don't know if it is muscle fiber composition related, cns related, or purely mental. Either way, it is a very interesting topic that I'd love to see discussed further.

It looks like the "boring but big" variation that I've seen referenced all over. I haven't read the book, maybe this isn't even in the book.

I think the main issue here that people are overlooking is that some people don't fit the prototypical 1RM paradigm at all and that is what is causing the confusion. If you use a 1RM max calculator and it models your 3RM and 5RM etc very well then 5/3/1 is going to make sense as it is laid out in the book. For what seems to be a minority of us, the simple program becomes confusing because we don't match documented norms.
The formula included is just an estimate and it becomes more inaccurate with each rep. The main thing to take away from it is as a gauge to compare your efforts from week to week. I personally like the Periodization Bible assistance template as I feel as though it is more diverse and balanced.

11. I'm just going to have to play with the different parts of the program and see how it goes. If nothing else, I can try something different.

12. May have been said already, but the last set is always a "sell out set" meaning you push it for as many reps as you can get with that weight except the wk 4 deload.

13. Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
Exactly right.. I finished the book last night for all of you telling me to buy it. I was doing the boring but big program and I followed it like it said except on the 5 sets of 10 I did as many as I could on the last set. I'm just saying the formulas and 1RM calculators don't work for me. My max sucks, it always has. But I have more endurance in my opinion. After I started the program I read that there was another option for the weight %'s so I'm going to try that. Thanks to those who didn't just post to say I need to read a book.

14. Until today I didn't even know that the bench press is not a chest movement and I really still don't understand how it's not but you guys obviously know more than I do so I will take your word for it. The plan for the rest of the week is just like you said though, to figure out my true maxes and go from there. Was also thinking of using the Triumvirate that you referred to.

15. Do yourself a favor and go to Youtube and look up Dave Tate's instructional videos on all of the big 3.

16. Originally Posted by SweetLou321
You do not build your lifts by doing more of the same.
Wendler disagrees.

17. Originally Posted by Est1969
Wendler disagrees.
No, he doesn't. This is one of the misconceptions of the BBB assistance template (which I am not a fan of for anyone but a beginner) and you also have to remember that 5/3/1 is a not the best competitive PL template out there. That's why there are several different templates depending on the emphasis of the training.

18. Hmmm my bad. I had it in my head that Wendler said BBB was a way to get stronger, but I went back to that section in the book and indeed he does not say that.

So what does BBB bring to the beginner? What are the benefits??

As for me, my goal is simply to get stronger. I want to increase the weights I can put up on the flat bench, deadlift, squat, and press. What do you recommend? What is the best plan to achieve this goal?

Regards,

Originally Posted by Rodja
No, he doesn't. This is one of the misconceptions of the BBB assistance template (which I am not a fan of for anyone but a beginner) and you also have to remember that 5/3/1 is a not the best competitive PL template out there. That's why there are several different templates depending on the emphasis of the training.

19. Originally Posted by Est1969
Hmmm my bad. I had it in my head that Wendler said BBB was a way to get stronger, but I went back to that section in the book and indeed he does not say that.

So what does BBB bring to the beginner? What are the benefits??

Regards,

If I had to venture a guess (and that is all this is) it would be improving both form and mind-muscle connection. As always, I will defer to Rodja.

20. Originally Posted by Est1969
Hmmm my bad. I had it in my head that Wendler said BBB was a way to get stronger, but I went back to that section in the book and indeed he does not say that.

So what does BBB bring to the beginner? What are the benefits??

Regards,
Volume and discipline mainly. It's a good way to establish a solid base a la Starting Strength, but it isn't the ideal assistance template because it doesn't have the specificity to strengthen weaknesses within the kinetic chain.

21. Originally Posted by Rodja
Do yourself a favor and go to Youtube and look up Dave Tate's instructional videos on all of the big 3.
Is do you think you can deadlift up?

Disclaimer--I'm not a diplomat. I do piss people off. Have a nice day.

23. Originally Posted by wrench3521

Disclaimer--I'm not a diplomat. I do piss people off. Have a nice day.
Some of the book is difficult to understand. I have to keep going back to certain sections of the book because it sounds like he is contradicting himself. I bought the 2nd edition book instead of the original hoping it would have more updated info. The assistance work was the biggest issue. I understand how the program works but he recommends different assistance work on every page. I've learned from all of the posts on here that the assistance work may be different to each person due to weakness in certain areas so I guess it's a matter of figuring out what areas I lack in. Then he started talking about rest/pause training and some other programs which gave me a mix of different information.

24. ^^ absolutely right. Even more maddening is when you read his many interviews he flat out contradicts himself all the time. I've learned not to look at Wendler's writings too closely; just take the big picture ideas and then see what works for you. Experiment with the accessories and get advice from other experienced lifters who have similar goals as you (or understands you goals).

Just my opinion on the matter. If there were one right answer, then there wouldn't be 2200 posts on the board every day

25. Originally Posted by SweetLou321
Is do you think you can deadlift up?
It's been filmed for awhile, but not edited. IMO, the deadlift (especially conventional) is pretty straight-forward with the main issue being width and proximity of the shins to the bar. Sumo is a bit more tricky, but I explain in terms of an inverted squat. The principles are the same (flared knees, arched lumbar, tight upper back, and hips pushed backwards), but the thing that needs to be emphasized more is pulling the slack out of the bar before initializing the pull.

Originally Posted by Matt Hatchett
Some of the book is difficult to understand. I have to keep going back to certain sections of the book because it sounds like he is contradicting himself. I bought the 2nd edition book instead of the original hoping it would have more updated info. The assistance work was the biggest issue. I understand how the program works but he recommends different assistance work on every page. I've learned from all of the posts on here that the assistance work may be different to each person due to weakness in certain areas so I guess it's a matter of figuring out what areas I lack in. Then he started talking about rest/pause training and some other programs which gave me a mix of different information.
There is way too much emphasis on how to choose assistance work with 5/3/1. It does not make or break the program, yet it is the main concern. The assistance template that is chosen by the lifter is not the essence of 5/3/1, which is why there is so many options for assistance work.

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