- 06-05-2012, 01:46 PM
Considering training with the weights suggested in 5/3/1 protocol sort of drove me away because I am in a similar boat. I can do 235 once, 225 twice or 205 10 times or more. I don't know if it is muscle fiber composition related, cns related, or purely mental. Either way, it is a very interesting topic that I'd love to see discussed further.
I think the main issue here that people are overlooking is that some people don't fit the prototypical 1RM paradigm at all and that is what is causing the confusion. If you use a 1RM max calculator and it models your 3RM and 5RM etc very well then 5/3/1 is going to make sense as it is laid out in the book. For what seems to be a minority of us, the simple program becomes confusing because we don't match documented norms.
- 06-05-2012, 07:37 PM
Originally Posted by Lutztenways
06-05-2012, 07:43 PM
I wouldn't worry too much about it. I would however, go through all four exercises at the prescribed weights and then tinker with the percentages after that. For me, Flat Bench day is the easiest (least tiring), and Deadlift day kicks my butt (doing Big but Boring).
I think Wendler would just tell you to do whatever you want. Keep posting your progress!
06-05-2012, 08:47 PM
I'll definitely keep going, going to take the rest of this week to make sure my maxes are correct and start again next week.
06-05-2012, 09:02 PM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-05-2012, 09:42 PM
I'm just going to have to play with the different parts of the program and see how it goes. If nothing else, I can try something different.
06-05-2012, 10:30 PM
May have been said already, but the last set is always a "sell out set" meaning you push it for as many reps as you can get with that weight except the wk 4 deload.
Evolutionary Muse - Inspire to Evolve
06-05-2012, 11:44 PM
06-06-2012, 01:54 AM
Until today I didn't even know that the bench press is not a chest movement and I really still don't understand how it's not but you guys obviously know more than I do so I will take your word for it. The plan for the rest of the week is just like you said though, to figure out my true maxes and go from there. Was also thinking of using the Triumvirate that you referred to.
06-06-2012, 08:58 AM
Do yourself a favor and go to Youtube and look up Dave Tate's instructional videos on all of the big 3.
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-06-2012, 10:01 AM
06-06-2012, 10:26 AM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-06-2012, 10:34 AM
Hmmm my bad. I had it in my head that Wendler said BBB was a way to get stronger, but I went back to that section in the book and indeed he does not say that.
So what does BBB bring to the beginner? What are the benefits??
As for me, my goal is simply to get stronger. I want to increase the weights I can put up on the flat bench, deadlift, squat, and press. What do you recommend? What is the best plan to achieve this goal?
06-06-2012, 10:36 AM
06-06-2012, 10:37 AM
06-07-2012, 01:14 PM
06-07-2012, 04:13 PM
Gonna start off by saying, glad you dropped the 20 bucks for the book. Read it over and over and over until you understand it. I've been doing 531 for the last 18 months solid. The first 8 months were the easiest. I only had to reset my squat. Now my actual "training maxes" are well over my first real maxes. And its much more difficult. My endurance does suck though, as I don't do conditioning consistantly.. If you go to jim wendler .com (no spaces) and read all of his blog stuff, you'll have a better understanding of 531. It is alot, but its worth the read. He talks about how 531 should be done over the course of the year, which is incredibly interesting, among other things and answers q&a about his creation...the 531 program. Don't hesitate to ask Jim your questions. He definitely doesn't tell people what the want to hear only what they need to hear. Fun fact-tone has to do with sound, not muscle definition. Not sure who started the whole "tone" thing, but they are stupid. Oh yea...the bench press conundrum. The bench press is not a dedicated chest movement. You have to stabilize yourself on the bench with your feet, butt and upper back. You have to pull the bar out of the hooks (not press and rotate) with your lats. Then you have to stabilize the weighted bar with your back, shoulders, biceps and forearms. Lower the bar with your lats to your sternum area (lower chest) with a slight tuck in the elbows (read your elbows are not straight out unless you want ****ed up shoulders, also a reason to ditch flyes). Once you touch your chest, press the bar up by driving yourself into the bench with your feet. I think someone mentioned Dave Tate's 6 week bench cure on youtube. Watch it.
Disclaimer--I'm not a diplomat. I do piss people off. Have a nice day.
06-08-2012, 02:23 AM
Some of the book is difficult to understand. I have to keep going back to certain sections of the book because it sounds like he is contradicting himself. I bought the 2nd edition book instead of the original hoping it would have more updated info. The assistance work was the biggest issue. I understand how the program works but he recommends different assistance work on every page. I've learned from all of the posts on here that the assistance work may be different to each person due to weakness in certain areas so I guess it's a matter of figuring out what areas I lack in. Then he started talking about rest/pause training and some other programs which gave me a mix of different information.Originally Posted by wrench3521
06-08-2012, 08:59 AM
^^ absolutely right. Even more maddening is when you read his many interviews he flat out contradicts himself all the time. I've learned not to look at Wendler's writings too closely; just take the big picture ideas and then see what works for you. Experiment with the accessories and get advice from other experienced lifters who have similar goals as you (or understands you goals).
Just my opinion on the matter. If there were one right answer, then there wouldn't be 2200 posts on the board every day
06-08-2012, 09:07 AM
M.Ed. Ex Phys
06-08-2012, 10:12 AM
Couldn't agree more! I found myself reading through it over and over looking for a clear cut answer. I hate trial and error but that seems to be the only way to be successful. I finally just chose my template and I'm going to use assistance work that has worked in the past along with some new things like floor press and some others.Originally Posted by Est1969
06-08-2012, 01:58 PM
I think the biggest problem is no one really remembers that 531 is not a bodybuilding program. And everyone thinks they have to go crazy with the assistance work. Remember training economy. He may not be consistent on the surface, because he wants you to find the path yourself. Everyones weak points are different. Also, if you truly think his writings and interviews are constant contradiction, why spend the money on the book and why spend time doing his program. You'd be better off using the program of the month from an overpriced bodybuilding magazine.
Disclaimer--still not a diplomat.
06-08-2012, 04:20 PM
I think the program is very good. I just think Wendler could use an editor.
06-08-2012, 05:43 PM
06-08-2012, 05:50 PM
06-08-2012, 06:01 PM
06-08-2012, 08:51 PM
06-08-2012, 09:11 PM
06-09-2012, 12:55 AM
Is there a problem with people posting issues or questions about programs? It seems other users come in here posting saying if there's a problem use a different program or blah blah. Didn't know we weren't allowed to discuss issues. Just an observation from a new set of eyes.
06-09-2012, 01:49 AM
Then in this article: http://articles.elitefts.com/trainin...531-questions/
in question #18 he says "NO" it's not okay to do that, but you can work in Front Squats if you want as an assistance exercise.
Look...not a big deal. It's just a point in context of a beginner trying to figure all this stuff out it can be a bit confusing when one looks too closely at Wendler. Best to step back and just take in the main points. That's all I'm pointing out.