Eccentric

[Nelson]

I realise this varies from lift to lift & according to the program you`re following, but how many seconds do you usually spend on the eccentric portion of a rep?

 

[sage]

voted 2 seconds. im gonna assume this will be the winner. personally i believe that eccentric shouldnt go beyond 4-5. 8 seconds plus?? only on a final rep of lets say a bicep curl when im trying to hold out the last one as long as i can til it inevitably crashes towards my thighs. Sage

 

[Matthew D]

I personally think it is about 3 seconds for me. But I just try not to go too fast, and not to slow. I have done a 4-0-4 count before and damn that will flat wear you down quick.

 

[Biggs]

2 seconds biotch (8? good lord... are we talking about actually *moving* the weight here? )

 

[Nelson]

5+ second eccentric

This is from Lane Norton`s "Got Back" article:
"Now I'm going to talk a bit about proper repetition form. There are a couple of back exercises that people constantly do wrong, I see it in the gym everyday and I just shake my head. First off it goes without saying that all reps must be done with a full range of motion and using a slow descent during the eccentric (negative) part of the repetition. I take at least 5 seconds on every negative and up to 8 seconds. These two rules go without saying; full range of motion and a slow negative are essential to maximizing the amount of muscle fiber that you stimulate when you are working out."

 

[Biggs]

well, that's good for layne I guess but I don't buy that **** at all, I've tried slow negatives and they don't do **** for my muscles. I don't know if this has to do with proportionment of fast-slow twitch fibers from individual to individual, but I can stand there all day, lift slow as hell, and not get any work done, nor feel stimulated to any significant degree... I do believe in slower negatives, and for me explosive but controlled concentrics, considering gravity etc... but 8 (anything above around 4 probably, for that matter) secs is silly and a waste of time IMO.

 

[Andy2k]

Around 3 seconds normally. particularly heavy weights will probably be around 2 seconds.
sometimes stretch it out to 5 - but that is when I deliberately use lighter weights and am concentrating on negatives.
Negatives are brilliant if you do them for a couple of weeks real slow - build up a lot of strength, and more importantly, control with the heavier weights.

 

[Lifeguard]

My usual is between 3-4 seconds on any of the Big 5 (as I call them: Bench press, Squat, Deadlift, Pull-up and Bent Over row).

 

 

LG.

 

[jweave23]

I do 2 seconds for the negatives. Although longer periods will give the muscle more time under tension, I haven't exactly seen the benefit of 5-8 seconds. That touches the old "super-slow" form guys did years ago, which is ok, but not for me I guess. Damn, a full 8 seconds if you look at a stopwatch is like doing a rep in slow motion.

 

[ironviking]

most of the guys I've seen in the gym are at about .25
I usually go for about 2-3 except on a forced rep which I take out to ten (I only do one forced rep)

 

[Draven]

3 secs for me, and like others sometimes slower on the last rep of smaller muscles like biceps, triceps shoulders..etc

 

[RaulJimenez]

Same here , 3 secs for me on the compound exercises.

 

[TarvMan]

decided my first post might as well be a harmless one, I chose 3 because that was the first way I learned how. I seem to see a lot of excercise programs incorporate a 1/0/3 rep scheme. works for me, but I ussualy switch it up every 4 to 6 weeks.

 

[msclbldrguy]

i cant imagine doin 8 secs....i'm like another post when i do really slo i dont feel like i'm really accomplishing anything! like most others here i dont respond well to super slo...and for me thats really boring.

 

[dieseldude]

8 seconds is way too long for me, i guess ide take up bull riding if i wanted a rep to last 8 seconds.
IMO 3-4 is sufficient, allmost too long for some movements.
I think some are taking for granted how long 8 seconds really is....
Unless you doing strickly negitive sets,(which are great to do once a month) its an eternity.

 

[Scottyo]

I do 6 seconds, or at least between 4 and 6...training DC method currently with explosive concentric, slow eccentric and rest-paused. Its all about TUT, but if your doing multiple sets and exercises, your going to overtrain very easily. Also, once you adjust the weight for the first two weeks or so, the 6 second controlled negative gives massive stimulus yet with an explosive concentric your still strength building.

 

[HobbesAB]

varies between 2-3 but more often than not, its 2 secs.

 

[Rolling6s]

I respond very well to german volume training, or atleast some variation of it that I have come up with on my own. Usually tends to be a 4-5 second eccentric and 3 seconds on the way back up.

This isn't too productive if strength is your main goal though.

 

[LunaHotel]

3 seconds here...

...but of course it depends on the exercice.

For bench, when I go heavy I still keep a negative of at least 2 seconds, I feel that there is just too much risk of injury if I use a weight heavy enough that I have to do a 1-second (or less) negative - and of course bounce hundreds of pounds on my ribcage...

OTOH Squats and deads for me are done with fast negative of about 1 to 1.5 seconds, back movements slow negs more than 3 secs, often 5... etc.

 

[morfiend]

bench for example: ~4 seconds down, 2 seconds pause on chest (not resting it on my chest, holding it), then explode up as fast as possible.

 

[kwyckemynd00]

2-3 seconds for me. When I do "negatives" (not just the negative on each of my normal reps), I'll hold for 6 to 8, but I hardly ever do those. I may do some on Saturday now that I remember

 

[Chunky]

Depend on the part of my program Im on. During the high volume high rep phase, I will do 2 sec negative. On my strength phase, I will do 3 sec negative, and on my hypertrophy phase, 4-5 sec negative.

 

[Alpha Dog]

Depend on the part of my program Im on. During the high volume high rep phase, I will do 2 sec negative. On my strength phase, I will do 3 sec negative, and on my hypertrophy phase, 4-5 sec negative.

Bingo. The right answer should be all of the above. Adaptation is a beach. If you stick to any tempo (eccentric or concentric), eventually you body will adapt and the response will lessen. Like everything, you should switch up tempo every 4-6 weeks.

 

[exnihilo]

Just thought this might provide some food for thought:

The effects of eccentric and concentric training at different velocities on muscle hypertrophy.

Farthing JP, Chilibeck PD.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, 105 Gymnasium Place, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, S7N 5C2, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of isokinetic eccentric (ECC) and concentric (CON) training at two velocities [fast, 180 degrees s(-1 )(3.14 rad s(-1)) and slow,30 degrees s(-1)(0.52 rad s(-1))] on muscle hypertrophy. Twenty-four untrained volunteers (age 18-36 years) participated in fast- ( n=13) or slow- ( n=11) velocity training, where they trained one arm eccentrically for 8 weeks followed by CON training of the opposite arm for 8 weeks. Ten subjects served as controls (CNT). Subjects were tested before and after training for elbow flexor muscle thickness by sonography and isokinetic strength (Biodex). Overall, ECC training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON training (P<0.01). No significant strength or hypertrophy changes occurred in the CNT group. ECC (180 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON (180 degrees s(-1)) training and CON (30 degrees s(-1)) training (P<0.01). ECC (30 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON (180 degrees s(-1)) training (P<0.05), but not CON (30 degrees s(-1)) training. ECC (180 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in the greatest increases in strength (P<0.01). We conclude that ECC fast training is the most effective for muscle hypertrophy and strength gain.

 

[TheUsual]

Just thought this might provide some food for thought:


The effects of eccentric and concentric training at different velocities on muscle hypertrophy.

Farthing JP, Chilibeck PD.

College of Kinesiology, University of Saskatchewan, 105 Gymnasium Place, Saskatoon, Saskatchewan, S7N 5C2, Canada.

The purpose of this study was to examine the effect of isokinetic eccentric (ECC) and concentric (CON) training at two velocities [fast, 180 degrees s(-1 )(3.14 rad s(-1)) and slow,30 degrees s(-1)(0.52 rad s(-1))] on muscle hypertrophy. Twenty-four untrained volunteers (age 18-36 years) participated in fast- ( n=13) or slow- ( n=11) velocity training, where they trained one arm eccentrically for 8 weeks followed by CON training of the opposite arm for 8 weeks. Ten subjects served as controls (CNT). Subjects were tested before and after training for elbow flexor muscle thickness by sonography and isokinetic strength (Biodex). Overall, ECC training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON training (P<0.01). No significant strength or hypertrophy changes occurred in the CNT group. ECC (180 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON (180 degrees s(-1)) training and CON (30 degrees s(-1)) training (P<0.01). ECC (30 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in greater hypertrophy than CON (180 degrees s(-1)) training (P<0.05), but not CON (30 degrees s(-1)) training. ECC (180 degrees s(-1)) training resulted in the greatest increases in strength (P<0.01). We conclude that ECC fast training is the most effective for muscle hypertrophy and strength gain.

Can someone decypher this for me? What exactly do they mean by eccentric fast training? n=13....??

 

[exnihilo]

Heh, sure...

They are comparing fast eccentric (180 degrees/second, or about 1 second eccentric curl) slow eccentric (30 degrees/second, about a 6 second eccentric curl) and fast/slow concentric (same as above only concentric). They found that the people who did the fast 1 second eccentric curls gained the most strength and had the most hypertrophy. They found that slow concentric curls provided more hypertrophy than slow eccentric curls, and that fast concentric curls fared the worst.

I've been considering trying to find a copy of this study in the university library, it intrigues me.

 

[TheUsual]

Heh, sure...

They are comparing fast eccentric (180 degrees/second, or about 1 second eccentric curl) slow eccentric (30 degrees/second, about a 6 second eccentric curl) and fast/slow concentric (same as above only concentric). They found that the people who did the fast 1 second eccentric curls gained the most strength and had the most hypertrophy. They found that slow concentric curls provided more hypertrophy than slow eccentric curls, and that fast concentric curls fared the worst.

I've been considering trying to find a copy of this study in the university library, it intrigues me.

Interesting, thank you. I had heard of recent research inidicating that slow eccentric movements may not in fact help with hypertrophy, but this is the first actual study I have seen.

This study almost seems to indicate that slow concentric and fast eccentric movements are best, don't you think? Odd, because that is the opposite of what is usually taught. I wonder what bobo thinks of this study.

 

[TheUsual]

Bump for some input on this study!

 

[DieTrying]

Bump for some input on this study!

I'm actually doing a powerpoint presentation on this very topic in a few weeks...when I am finished I'd be willing to put it on here or e-mail it to you guys.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

This study almost seems to indicate that slow concentric and fast eccentric movements are best, don't you think? Odd, because that is the opposite of what is usually taught. I wonder what bobo thinks of this study.

They are comparing a broad time peroid (1 vs. 6 seconds). That slow of a tempo wouldn't increase myofibrillar hypertrophy at all but sarcoplasmic hypertrophy.

They are only looking at myofibrillar hypertrophy here.

 

[TheUsual]

I'm actually doing a powerpoint presentation on this very topic in a few weeks...when I am finished I'd be willing to put it on here or e-mail it to you guys.

That would be great; I am interested in learning more about sarcoplasmic and myofibrillar hypertorphy.

 

[Jstrong20]

I like slow reps such as 3-3 or 2-4 for exercises such as curls and extensions. It gives my joints and tendons a break. When it comes to benching I bring it down as fast as possible(while still under control) and push it back up as fast as possible since I'm concerned with strength.

 

[rake922]

It depends

 

[excalibur]

I try to vary it in diffrent phases
but apx 2-3 seconds negative and 1-2 second positives in the hyperthrophy phases. In strenght/power phases I tend to do it faster

 

[tunnelrat]

301-regular bench
currently, 501-close grip bench

 

[mrnick]

Ironman Article Referenced this Topic

Heh, sure...

They are comparing fast eccentric (180 degrees/second, or about 1 second eccentric curl) slow eccentric (30 degrees/second, about a 6 second eccentric curl) and fast/slow concentric (same as above only concentric). They found that the people who did the fast 1 second eccentric curls gained the most strength and had the most hypertrophy. They found that slow concentric curls provided more hypertrophy than slow eccentric curls, and that fast concentric curls fared the worst.

I've been considering trying to find a copy of this study in the university library, it intrigues me.

I have been looking for the issue of IronMan Magazine that referenced a study that claimed faster eccentric reps were responsible for significantly greater gains, but the speed was so fast that obviously they were using much heavier loads. I tried it after reading the article, but you need to be really careful;however, I cannot find that article now and I have been looking all nite, LOL. Let me know if you find it.

 

[Joshua86]

I go by "feel," but it depends on what exercise I'm doing. I try to find that sweet spot. I do think that too little is just as bad as too much, though.

 

[CJPopovich]

As little time as possible while still staying tight and under control.