Possible to Reduce BF and Build Muscle At Same Time?

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    Possible to Reduce BF and Build Muscle At Same Time?


    Is it possible to build muscle mass while reducing body fat at the same time? I know if you are trying to build muscle you want to intake increased calories and while reducing body fat you want to reduce calories and increase cardio. Is there a way to achieve both at the same time? Or does one need to dedicated time to separate periods of building muscle and then reducing body fat?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynasty90 View Post
    Is it possible to build muscle mass while reducing body fat at the same time? I know if you are trying to build muscle you want to intake increased calories and while reducing body fat you want to reduce calories and increase cardio. Is there a way to achieve both at the same time? Or does one need to dedicated time to separate periods of building muscle and then reducing body fat?
    You can do both. It's a matter of diet. 80% of what you want to accomplish with your body you accomplish with a knife and fork. Watch what you eat, how much you eat and when you eat. If you eliminate most carbs after 4:30 PM, you can lose about a pound-a-week and most of that will be fat. In the gym, lift heavy, using minimum reps (4-6) per set.
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    Should I focus my diet around high protein and a lower amount of carbs and fat? Or do I still need high carbs earlier on in the day?
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    Slow but Steady Weight Loss Diet

    Meal 1 (Early Breakfast)
    One cup of liquid egg whites, one scoop of low carbs, low fat, protein powder, 8 oz of water in a blender (makes a great Smoothie) and 1 Grapefruit (sweetened with Splenda and cinnamon), or 8 strawberries or 1 cup oatmeal or two pieces of whole wheat toast with a thin spread of quality peanut butter (not Skippy or Peter Pan). (All good carbs) The protein is constant and you can choose your carbs.

    Meal 2 (About 9:30 AM)
    Protein shake (one scoop + 8 Oz of water)
    Snack of your choice. Smart snack not junk food (Kellogg's Protein Meal Bars are the best)

    Meal 3 (About 11:30 AM)
    6 Oz Chicken (About Two Chicken Breasts) or 6 Oz of Fish (Salmon, Tilapia or Tuna)
    2 Cups of Vegetables (string beans, broccoli, asparagus, or spinach

    Meal 4 (About 2:00 PM)
    6 oz Chicken Breast, or turkey breast or 6 Oz of fish and 1 sliced tomato

    Meal 5 (About 4:00 PM)
    Optional Protein Shake

    Meal 6 (About 5:30 - 6 PM) Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
    6 Oz 93% Lean Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast or fish
    2 Cups Vegetables (Green Leafy, spinach, asparagus, broccoli, or others)

    Meal 6 (About 5:30 Ė 6 PM) Monday, Thursday. This meal is designed as a carb load or re-feed meal)
    6 Oz 93% Lean Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast or fish
    1.5 Cup Oatmeal or 1.5 Cups Cooked Brown Rice or
    10 Oz Sweet Potato
    4 Oz Banana
    1 Cup green vegetables. 1Tbs. Butter.


    You can prepare most of your meals the night before and place them in plastic containers in the refrigerator overnight. The next day, place what you need in a soft lunch bag with artificial ice packs.

    Sugar and salt are your enemies. Look at labels and watch your content.

    DRINK AT LEAST 8-10 GLASSES OF WATER EACH DAY TO AID IN DIGESTION AND TO PURGE TOXINS.

    You should lose a pound or more a week with this diet.

    Last thing:

    Other than the Monday & Thursday carb load, don't eat any high carb or high fat food later in the evening as it stores as fat due to lack of activity.

    And, you can adjust your meals to accommodate your workout schedule. Itís important to eat around 45 minutes before you train and then again, within an hour after your train. Donít work on an empty gas tank and be sure to refill your gas tank quickly, to provide needed nutrients to replace what your gave up in the gym.
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    Yea, I've done it before and am doing it now. Check out my log here for details.

    Eliminating carbs after "X" time will make no diff unless that results in a deficit...math is math.

    You CAN be in a deficit and still GAIN WT (but get leaner)!! I wonder how many people will understand that fact... Again its simple math.

    No reason to eat 6X's a day either... Why? It does NOT speed up your matabolism....why would it? The only reason to eat that often is if you are having a problem getting ENOUGH cals....that ain't your problem.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dynasty90 View Post
    Is it possible to build muscle mass while reducing body fat at the same time? I know if you are trying to build muscle you want to intake increased calories and while reducing body fat you want to reduce calories and increase cardio. Is there a way to achieve both at the same time? Or does one need to dedicated time to separate periods of building muscle and then reducing body fat?
    you tell me???? (200->187)




    Took 3 months and a constant same diet...


    Couple of insights...

    Ive been in better shape in the past then the after photos (muscle memory)

    I was on cycle the last 2 of those 3 months

    I took the AT2 OEP fat burning stack that not only targets Alpha and Beta adrenergic receptors but also boosts thyroid production and has multi faceted stims included.

    I kept a constant caloric deficit yet high protein intake.

    Lifted only 3-4 times a week (usually 3) but worked 6 days a week that had me walking or jogging 12 hours a day (door to door sales) and is why cycle was initiated, to prevent catabolism...


    Sooooo yes, it can be done... its not always this dramatic though... what do they say??? results not typical???




    In all reality its ALL diet based and working hard with plenty of recovery time for main muscle groups but almost always some sort of daily exercise implemented (at least daily morning cardio) to boost metabolism. Fat burners and anabolics help but only if you have the basics down and know what your doing.
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    Nice results Sourdough! Very impressive. Your arms and shoulders really blew up from the before to after. Couple questions for ya, what was the cycle you were on? What did your routine look like?
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    its possible. its called a "recomp", a very slow process
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    Quote Originally Posted by Old Navy
    Slow but Steady Weight Loss Diet



    Meal 1 (Early Breakfast)
    One cup of liquid egg whites, one scoop of low carbs, low fat, protein powder, 8 oz of water in a blender (makes a great Smoothie) and 1 Grapefruit (sweetened with Splenda and cinnamon), or 8 strawberries or 1 cup oatmeal or two pieces of whole wheat toast with a thin spread of quality peanut butter (not Skippy or Peter Pan). (All good carbs) The protein is constant and you can choose your carbs.

    Meal 2 (About 9:30 AM)
    Protein shake (one scoop + 8 Oz of water)
    Snack of your choice. Smart snack not junk food (Kellogg's Protein Meal Bars are the best)

    Meal 3 (About 11:30 AM)
    6 Oz Chicken (About Two Chicken Breasts) or 6 Oz of Fish (Salmon, Tilapia or Tuna)
    2 Cups of Vegetables (string beans, broccoli, asparagus, or spinach

    Meal 4 (About 2:00 PM)
    6 oz Chicken Breast, or turkey breast or 6 Oz of fish and 1 sliced tomato

    Meal 5 (About 4:00 PM)
    Optional Protein Shake

    Meal 6 (About 5:30 - 6 PM) Tuesday, Wednesday, Friday, Saturday, Sunday
    6 Oz 93% Lean Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast or fish
    2 Cups Vegetables (Green Leafy, spinach, asparagus, broccoli, or others)

    Meal 6 (About 5:30 Ė 6 PM) Monday, Thursday. This meal is designed as a carb load or re-feed meal)
    6 Oz 93% Lean Beef, Chicken Breast, Turkey Breast or fish
    1.5 Cup Oatmeal or 1.5 Cups Cooked Brown Rice or
    10 Oz Sweet Potato
    4 Oz Banana
    1 Cup green vegetables. 1Tbs. Butter.

    You can prepare most of your meals the night before and place them in plastic containers in the refrigerator overnight. The next day, place what you need in a soft lunch bag with artificial ice packs.

    Sugar and salt are your enemies. Look at labels and watch your content.

    DRINK AT LEAST 8-10 GLASSES OF WATER EACH DAY TO AID IN DIGESTION AND TO PURGE TOXINS.

    You should lose a pound or more a week with this diet.

    Last thing:

    Other than the Monday & Thursday carb load, don't eat any high carb or high fat food later in the evening as it stores as fat due to lack of activity.

    And, you can adjust your meals to accommodate your workout schedule. Itís important to eat around 45 minutes before you train and then again, within an hour after your train. Donít work on an empty gas tank and be sure to refill your gas tank quickly, to provide needed nutrients to replace what your gave up in the gym.
    While that is a very balanced diet, the chances of him losing weight or recomping on it are slim; there isnt a cookie cutter approach to dieting, it needs to be personalized
    Beast Sports Nutrition Representative
    www.beastsports.com
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaDgErFaN
    Nice results Sourdough! Very impressive. Your arms and shoulders really blew up from the before to after. Couple questions for ya, what was the cycle you were on? What did your routine look like?
    First month was anabeta and erase...

    Cycle was phera(30mg) and prostan(100mg) month 2, m-tst(8-12mg)and 3aa transdermal (I forget now what I mixed it to) month 3.

    A gda, slin sane, was utilized throughout and I ran a few mini cycles of eca(2on 2off) then switched to the alpha t2/oep stack and ran it for approx 6 weeks

    My arms, namely bis and tris, are my genetic strong point... I don't work my arms with a dedicated arm day n for a couple years I wouldn't directly work them at all to allow the rest of my body to catch up... Shoulders are one thing I've worked hard on as they looked ridiculously small compared to the rest of my arms.... But now they are a lot stronger and starting to pop.

    If you look in my log link in my sig I have my typical routine posted there in the first post. That routine (with small variants) has always been great for me for hypertrophy. When on cycle volume and intensity are increased and I try to test heavier weight every week...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Beast Sports

    While that is a very balanced diet, the chances of him losing weight or recomping on it are slim; there isnt a cookie cutter approach to dieting, it needs to be personalized
    Agreed. Base line caloric expenditure has to be established, body type and daily activity come into play and portion size and frequency need to be adjusted for ever ones individual schedule...

    Nice starting point though...
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    you tell me???? (200->187)




    Took 3 months and a constant same diet...


    Couple of insights...

    Ive been in better shape in the past then the after photos (muscle memory)

    I was on cycle the last 2 of those 3 months

    I took the AT2 OEP fat burning stack that not only targets Alpha and Beta adrenergic receptors but also boosts thyroid production and has multi faceted stims included.

    I kept a constant caloric deficit yet high protein intake.

    Lifted only 3-4 times a week (usually 3) but worked 6 days a week that had me walking or jogging 12 hours a day (door to door sales) and is why cycle was initiated, to prevent catabolism...


    Sooooo yes, it can be done... its not always this dramatic though... what do they say??? results not typical???




    In all reality its ALL diet based and working hard with plenty of recovery time for main muscle groups but almost always some sort of daily exercise implemented (at least daily morning cardio) to boost metabolism. Fat burners and anabolics help but only if you have the basics down and know what your doing.
    Good work for sure, but a few thoughts.

    Being on cycle is not really a "fair" comparison. I think you are really downplaying the anabolic aspect, and how much it helps with this sort of task.

    Secondly it is hard to say how much muscle you gained based on pics alone, and losing 13lbs on the scale. If those pics were like a 1lb difference we would have a much better idea. Just dropping BF can often appear as if one gained significant mass.

    The change is obvious, but in the context of "gaining muscle, and losing fat" it is really hard to say to what degree that happened.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    Good work for sure, but a few thoughts.

    Being on cycle is not really a "fair" comparison. I think you are really downplaying the anabolic aspect, and how much it helps with this sort of task.

    Secondly it is hard to say how much muscle you gained based on pics alone, and losing 13lbs on the scale. If those pics were like a 1lb difference we would have a much better idea. Just dropping BF can often appear as if one gained significant mass.

    The change is obvious, but in the context of "gaining muscle, and losing fat" it is really hard to say to what degree that happened.
    Ok how about this with me. Post surgery I was 287 with arms that were 18 and change. In two months I was down to 247 with arms a lill over 19, now I'm 253-254 with arms a lill under 20...

    Yea a lot of its muscle memory with me....and busting my ass.... but it don't change that fact that I added muscle and lost fat.
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    Ok. Was I commenting on your situation? Or the one I quoted?


    I never said it wasn't possible, nor that I have never done it, but let's not down play certain scenarios like cycles, or bouncing back from injuries, etc.


    Obviously with extenuating circumstances such as cycling, or muscle memory it is far more plausible to do both to a greater degree.

    The point is it is not typical to naturally make any significant decreases in body fat while adding significant amounts of muscle, in a short period of time.

    If it was that typical, and easily done, especially naturally we would all be walking around huge and ripped lol
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    I will concede they are most often newbs but I have trained many people that have. Hell if your body wt stays the same and you add a 16th of an inch to your arms you just added muscle and lost fat. As long as your body does not believe it is in starvation mode there is no real reason it can not be done.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    Good work for sure, but a few thoughts.

    Being on cycle is not really a "fair" comparison. I think you are really downplaying the anabolic aspect, and how much it helps with this sort of task.

    Secondly it is hard to say how much muscle you gained based on pics alone, and losing 13lbs on the scale. If those pics were like a 1lb difference we would have a much better idea. Just dropping BF can often appear as if one gained significant mass.

    The change is obvious, but in the context of "gaining muscle, and losing fat" it is really hard to say to what degree that happened.
    Always gotta be the devils advocate even when its not applicable, eh frank?

    I don't know how I down played a thing. I listed out everything to a T that was done to accomplish the task and specifically have given credit to the reasons why I was able to do it including the cycle and muscle memory, so for that your just being redundant and inaccurately labeling it "down playing"...

    Give credit where credit is due... Especially since no one just taking anabolics and fat burners could do the same without following a strict diet and workout program that was specifically detailed to meet those goals.

    As for the change of adding muscle AND burning fat... Are you serious? There's no real muscle mass in the befores at all I had severely let myself go and atrophied a considerable amount... Maybe those 2 pics aren't enough for YOU but it was a fact that my arms went from 15.5 to 17.5, my waist went from 37.5 to 34. My chest which was fatty and hanging got tighter and filled out with muscle. My shoulder width increased 2.5 inches and my chest/under arm lat measurements went up 4.25.... Sorry no calipers but those measurements increasing that much with that much of a drop in weight and decrease in belly size tells anyone who's too blind to see in the pics that I gained plenty of muscle and burned a ton of fat.

    So thank you for "down playing" my progress but I'd appreciate you taking your inaccurate remarks elsewhere.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds View Post
    Ok. Was I commenting on your situation? Or the one I quoted?


    I never said it wasn't possible, nor that I have never done it, but let's not down play certain scenarios like cycles, or bouncing back from injuries, etc.


    Obviously with extenuating circumstances such as cycling, or muscle memory it is far more plausible to do both to a greater degree.

    The point is it is not typical to naturally make any significant decreases in body fat while adding significant amounts of muscle, in a short period of time.

    If it was that typical, and easily done, especially naturally we would all be walking around huge and ripped lol
    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post

    ...Couple of insights...


    ....Sooooo yes, it can be done... its not always this dramatic though... what do they say??? results not typical???....


    In all reality its ALL diet based and working hard with plenty of recovery time for main muscle groups but almost always some sort of daily exercise implemented (at least daily morning cardio) to boost metabolism. Fat burners and anabolics help but only if you have the basics down and know what your doing....

    Soooo glad I was downplaying the situation

    Maybe not be so critical of others work and remarks on such, while parroting their own comments
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post
    Soooo glad I was downplaying the situation

    Maybe not be so critical of others work and remarks on such, while parroting their own comments
    Damn, go pop an a-dex it seems your E2 is getting up there...lol

    Saying "anabolics help" is an understatement. They put you at a TREMENDOUS advantage in this scenario. Are you hanging on me using the word TYPICAL, and you said your results were not "typical"? Quite honestly, your transformation while good, is VERY typical of a person on a cycle, with their ducks even remotely in a row.

    Like I said, it is SURELY very possible to do both, even naturally. But there are a lot of variables, and there are certain situations that are more conducive to doing both at an accelerated rate.(AAS, bouncing back from time off/injury, newbs, etc)

    Lastly did you post any measurements? I said "based off of two pics, and a drop on the scale". Pictures can be very deceiving, and someone with very high BF can EASILY look like they are carrying NO, or VERY LITTLE muscle.

    Measurements would have added another dimension to the transformation.

    There really is no need to get so EMOTIONAL. I am not trying to take away from your progress at all, I said "Good Work" and you made a good transformation, no doubting that, but putting the facts out there, so someone can make realistic goals for themselves important. IMO.

    While you mentioned what you did up front(which is good), it just seemed to me, that AAS were almost looked at, as a "mild" accessory to your progress, when in fact it is a major driving force to any substantial gain in LBM while dieting, especially in a 3 month period.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    when in fact it is a major driving force to any substantial gain in LBM while dieting, especially in a 3 month period.
    That blanket statement is simply not true at all. I personally am on trt... That's all but I concede that trt still puts me above the avg man when it comes to test levels BUT I have done it long before I ever touched anything. I did it as a teen, dis it as an adult after a lay off....wait I know.... Muscle memory BUT I have had a good amount of clients do it while on nothing, I have a woman I am training now that has lost about 50 lbs and has gained strength at an astonishing rate when you take her concurrent wt loss into account. There is no way she has not gained muscle. I've had client go from a pudgy 170 to a muscular 180 or so in a matter of months while on nothing. I am not saying its easy or that even everyone can but to say basically that someone must be on gear to make substantial LBM gains while losing fat is just incorrect.

    You may not be able to, that does not mean others can not. I've worked with too many people that have (to varying degrees) gained and lost at the sane time.

    As I said earlier, if your body does not go into starvation mode....why would you not be able to gain and lose at the same time?
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    You are hearing what you want. I never said it was impossible, nor did I say people haven't done it, or have to be on. I am saying being on is a huge advantage. Take these same clients you speak of, add anabolics and report back.

    I am not even sure how that is up for debate lol.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Frank Reynolds
    You are hearing what you want. I never said it was impossible, nor did I say people haven't done it, or have to be on. I am saying being on is a huge advantage. Take these same clients you speak of, add anabolics and report back.

    I am not even sure how that is up for debate lol.
    I am not hearing what I want when I quote you... Those are your words. No person in their right mind would argue that gear does not improve results... Dramatically. I have rather a lot if past experience in the area.

    Maybe I am taking your posts to literally... But your post quoted says basically that if you have substantial gains in LBM while losing body fat it is always cause of gear (see your use of the words 'major' and 'any'). That can be true but doesn't have to be true and YES whatever results someone has will be greatly increased by gear (dose dependent).
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunhill225 View Post
    I am not hearing what I want when I quote you... Those are your words. No person in their right mind would argue that gear does not improve results... Dramatically. I have rather a lot if past experience in the area.

    Maybe I am taking your posts to literally... But your post quoted says basically that if you have substantial gains in LBM while losing body fat it is always cause of gear (see your use of the words 'major' and 'any'). That can be true but doesn't have to be true and YES whatever results someone has will be greatly increased by gear (dose dependent).
    when in fact it is a major driving force to any substantial gain in LBM while dieting, especially in a 3 month period.
    See you are not reading or understanding what I am saying. YES it is a MAJOR driving force. Not the ONLY driving force. I never said every ounce of progress is SOLELY due to AAS.

    Would you not consider AAS a major advantage? LOL I mean COME ON. You are agreeing with me in your last post, yet arguing with me on that quote..lol WHY? Because you are reading INTO IT, and not reading/comprehending what I wrote.

    Lastly I was speaking on HIS situation, and HIS, transformation, not every transformation in the history of the world..lol We can't speculate on what it would have been like naturally as it WASN'T.

    My point was lets not act like adding AAS into the mix is like adding a small diet aid, that has a very minor and minuscule effect. It is (and you said it YOURSELF with it helps "dramatically") a very big advantage when it comes to the topic at hand.

    I am not sure what you are disagreeing with..lol Or do you just like to debate?
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    There is someone who likes to debate here thats for sure


    I still think what your missing is his offense and mine as well, that the progress at hand was made with anabolics/muscle memory/recovering from injuries yes, but that ONLY exaggerated what was happening anyways and was being used as an example as to what was possible... and so in reply to the topic at hand, of course YES it can be done. Its not easy regardless. The points been made that Anabolics and supplements will aid in and accelerate the process... but COME ON, we are on Anabolic Minds a supplement and steroid board that was founded around the principles of "get your basics down pat and use A, B and C exogenous supplementations to achieve said goal faster and more reliably"....

    I still hold firm that you came in here just wanting to play devils advocate as I put into light ALL that went into achieving the aforementioned transformation but you decided you not only had to pick apart what was used to do it but personally insult me by remarking that my progress wasnt even genuinely fat loss and muscle mass gain... (trying to downplay my progress by inaccurately downplaying my candid response as to how I got there)

    I think someone here has a bit of the chip on the shoulder for some reason... Trouble doing the same? dont like seeing others succeed where you have failed??? lil man complex???

    IDK, but its not becoming and turned this otherwise informative and straightforward thread into a personal debacle for no apparent reason whatsoever....
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sourdough View Post



    I still hold firm that you came in here just wanting to play devils advocate as I put into light ALL that went into achieving the aforementioned transformation but you decided you not only had to pick apart what was used to do it but personally insult me by remarking that my progress wasnt even genuinely fat loss and muscle mass gain... (trying to downplay my progress by inaccurately downplaying my candid response as to how I got there)

    I think someone here has a bit of the chip on the shoulder for some reason... Trouble doing the same? dont like seeing others succeed where you have failed??? lil man complex???
    Please show me where I said the bolded..

    As for the "trouble doing the same" I could throw up a natty transformation of mine that will make yours look bad. This isn't about me so I would be careful before you take it there. I am not one to throw the "I am bigger and badder then you" **** around, as it isn't my style, so don't make this about ME.

    Obviously you have a chip on your shoulder. If you were that proud, and confident in your progress you wouldn't give a **** what some faceless, no-body on the internet thought, and wouldn't feel the need to get so defensive, when you are not even being called out..LOL

    If I wanted to be a dick, I would have said you were in no shape to even be using AAS in the first place, and coulda dropped some BF naturally, before even resorting to AAS.. But I said you made a good transformation, and wasn't trying to take that away from you.

    I never questioned your hard work. AAS isn't magic, but it sure as hell will improve results 10 fold.

    Now you are resorting to throwing insults? I never insulted you at all. Lil man complex? I am heavier then you, in the single digits, and shorter then you by a few IN..lol Maybe you have some sort of body dysmorphia.

    And funny thing is, it sounds like Dunhil is agreeing with me, just wasn't grasping what I was saying..LOL

    So you wanna keep playing this game? It is your call brotha..LOL

    YOU turned it into a personal debacle. Instead of taking my opinion FWIW you have to reply with your bleeding vag of a post. Just move on with your life. This is the internet, it isn't that serious..hah
    Last edited by Frank Reynolds; 10-31-2011 at 11:05 PM.
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    I would love to see your transformation...

    Scale weight means nothing until body composition has been established and this is the internet so you can say whatever you like but pics or GTFO

    And "This is the internet, it isn't that serious" following your "bleeding vag" comment really puts into light your hypocrisy and lack of being able to conduct a distinguished conversation with someone.



    The only one here who couldnt takes someones comment "FWIW" was yourself and having to come in here arguing semantics with everyone you came across.

    Poke and prod all you like but your tone and argumentative demeanor have been apparent since your initial post in this thread (and many others Ive seen you post in)... I dont know how you can sanely make the remarks you do and act as though your not instigating a thing.
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    You wanna toss some cash onto this bud?
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    It is possible. It is very slow and you really have to understand nutrient timing, diet, and macro needs.

    If you wish to go this route I suggest a very clean lean bulk with the majority of your calories surrounding your work out.
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    WTH??? what do you expect to do? Pool our paypal accout funds with Dun as the holder to fw it on to the victor??? REALLY???


    No man, I want to see you back up your big words, Ive put myself out there, you cant do the same? Id also like to have some kind of context as to what Im looking at, how long, what was used etc... cause I could easily do the good ol, post my 19 year old ectomorph pic and then my 205lb sub 10% pic from 2008 and call that a transformation when in all actuality its just progress...

    Lets see what you got.
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    The difference is I know what I have accomplished. Remember YOU brought me into this, I didn't go around claiming this or that.

    How about this.. I will PM it to you. And you can make your own determination. I have no need to wave my e-peen around on here, as I said, I NEVER throw around the "I am xx than you card".. YOU threw it out there.

    Then we can see if you can be a MAN and leave a PM to PM. Fair enough?
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    I have no problem with that whatsoever. im not here for a public showdown. I want to see that your not talkin out your hole
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    Frank,
    To be clear... In general I agree with much of what you have said in your posts SINCE the one I quoted. I think in general we are on the same page but I think you believe its harder to accomplish than I do BUT I don't concede that I misunderstood or misinterpreted your post. I said maybe I took it too literally but stand by the fact that you said that gear was the "major" reason for "ANY" substantial gains in LBM. When you say "ANY" gains are from gear you are saying that no gains in LBM can happen while losing fat without gear. Maybe it was just a wrong choice of words...I've gotten caught up in discussions before and have made blanket statements that afterwards I'll admit and say "my bad, not what I meant to say, I just got carried away trying to make a point" and in all honesty I won't keep defending the comment. I think since that post you have acknowledged that it can and has been done without gear... I'm glad you clarified your position. As I said , my problem was with the word "ANY" more than anything else you said.

    I will say that I honestly hate when people go "I got pics/vids of me... But I won't post them". If your gonna say it... POST THEM... Or in all honesty the words mean nothing. I have the same problem with the steroids gurus online and people giving advice on training online when they won't post pics. Yea we all have different genetics so I am not saying a guy giving advice needs to be 265 with abs... But if someone talks about gear or training they should look like they know what they are talking about so I ain't "calling you out" or anything....I just think words about what you are, can do, look like, etc... Without backing them up are hollow. That's my opinion. Not ripping you but YOU SAID what pics you COULD post... I didn't even see anyone asking for pics from you so .... Post em or don't make the comment. I will be the first to say "damn" if you look good and I would probably bet you do look good but I've seen these type of comments online for over a decade.... And it rings of the old truism that when you wanna know who is telling you the truth... It's not the guy that tells you ten times he is not lieing cause that means he is.

    Understand I am NOT saying that is YOU... Just talking about what I've seen over the years (hell that *******s Roberts still makes a living out if his moms basement in hackensack as a steroids guru even after it was shown he has been talking **** for over a decade!). I've seen people post pics of others, a dude on another board bragged about his arms and when called on it posted a pic of Dantes tris....lol.... It took 5 secs for him to get called on it and he vanished... Sure he just is on the boards making claims under another handle. I hope you understand the point... Why PM them by the way? That reaks on many levels....

    So with all due respect, put up or shut up.

    I hope, and think, you will. And I'll say "way to prove your point, ya look great" if ya do.

    Peace
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    Quote Originally Posted by dunhill225 View Post
    Frank,

    Not ripping you but YOU SAID what pics you COULD post... I didn't even see anyone asking for pics from you so .... Post em or don't make the comment. I will be the first to say "damn" if you look good and I would probably bet you do look good but I've seen these type of comments online for over a decade....
    LOL.. Again you are reading what YOU want, defining ANY in YOUR own way, or are reading INTO IT too much. The word ANY is not necessarily = to ALL. If I meant ALL I would have said ALL gains. Or I would have said "it is "THE ONLY"

    Definition of ANY

    1
    : one or some indiscriminately of whatever kind:a : one or another taken at random <ask any man you meet>b : every —used to indicate one selected without restriction<any child would know that>

    2
    : one, some, or all indiscriminately of whatever quantity:a : one or more —used to indicate an undetermined number or amount <have you any money>b : all —used to indicate a maximum or whole <needs anyhelp he can get>c : a or some without reference to quantity or extent<grateful for any favor at all>

    3
    a : unmeasured or unlimited in amount, number, or extent<any quantity you desire>


    b: appreciably large or extended <could not endure it anylength of time>

    So we will leave it at that, as I don't want to go around in circles with you all day.

    Secondly, I NEVER make comments about throwing my pics up, out of the blue. In fact I ALSO dislike when people throw that out there, I was just bitching at someone else for doing it the other day.. People get in a disagreement and automatically go "I am right, I am big" ok...sure..lol

    Sourdough has my pics, I followed through with what I said, we hashed it out, and it's all good.. He can respond if he wants and verify, or not, it isn't a big deal to me. I don't feel the need to have my pics on the net, as I could care less. I know what I am, and what I am not.

    You like having your pics/vids out there, I don't. Simple as that.
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    ill say, im impressed with what he did natty and choose to leave it at that, weve buried the hatchet.
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    Thanks brotha. I agree, no hard feelings on my part. Sometimes tone, and **** get lost in internet land lol.
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    Anyhow, back to the original poster. You can. Its relatively easy the first 3-6 months of weightlifting to make a major loss of fat + gain of muscle. After that trying to do both at once is a slow process, but is still doable. the interesting thing that i've seen is that someone who loses the fat and gains the muscle (without using large doses and multiple cycles of steroids) slowly over time has a better chance of staying lean and keeping the muscle than someone who goes through repeated bulk/cut phases.
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    Quote Originally Posted by EasyEJL View Post
    Anyhow, back to the original poster. You can. Its relatively easy the first 3-6 months of weightlifting to make a major loss of fat + gain of muscle. After that trying to do both at once is a slow process, but is still doable. the interesting thing that i've seen is that someone who loses the fat and gains the muscle (without using large doses and multiple cycles of steroids) slowly over time has a better chance of staying lean and keeping the muscle than someone who goes through repeated bulk/cut phases.
    I agree...

    There is a discipline that comes with fine tuning a diet for Recomp.... Its easy IMO to just cut cals or pack em in... Bulking and cutting lends itself to failure since an extreme is taken and too many cant maintain that extreme without falling off eventually and losing progress... Maintaining a recomp diet has got to better for your health too I would have to think.
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