Hey Bobo your opinion on seated shoulder presses? - AnabolicMinds.com

Hey Bobo your opinion on seated shoulder presses?

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    Hey Bobo your opinion on seated shoulder presses?


    I'm not sure if these are part of your training program or not, but when you do them, do you recommend doing them seated at a 90 degree angle, or declining the bench just a little bit? When I do mine seated I can do a set of 105 but if I decline it just a few degress I can do a set of 115 and I also don't feel like I'm gonna fall off the seat.

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    THe more you keep at a 90 degree angle the greater you hit the delts. The more you inclide the greater chance you hit part of the upper chest along with the delts.

    I do not do them and my clients use Arnold presses the majority of the time of they ALL love them.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    THe more you keep at a 90 degree angle the greater you hit the delts. The more you inclide the greater chance you hit part of the upper chest along with the delts.

    I do not do them and my clients use Arnold presses the majority of the time of they ALL love them.
    I've always heard that arnold presses were bad and was wondering the reason for this.
    •   
       

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    I had never done an arnold press in my life, and had always actually been afraid of them due to being afraid I'd put too much stress on my shoulders with the turning/pressing, until I started with Bobo.

    I can honestly say I've seen more size get put on my shoulders in the few weeks while doing them with Bobo. Definitely a good exercise.
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    From my experience of doing Arnold presses, it actually puts less strain on my shoulders than regular military presses with dumbells. I think it's because you're getting the full range of motion (like going all the way down and all the way up on preacher curls). My left shoulder has always given me a little trouble from doing military presses on the hammer machine (I think from the restricted range of motion and going heavy), but doing the Arnold presses gives me a great delt workout without feeling the "pinch"...
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    The people have spoken
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    I occassionally have a little trouble with shoulder discomfort.. I am unfamiliar with the Arnold press, could someone perhaps provide a link or description of the movement?
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    There ya go.
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    The pic is from "Strenth Training Anatomy"

    I have that book and its a good one for those looking for a good, simple
    book.
    Last edited by HobbesAB; 08-11-2004 at 06:07 AM.
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    I have lots of problems with my left shoulder because I dislocated it three years ago. Actually, the number one exercise that I feel pulling at my shoulder is cable crunches. The Arnolds do not bother it, and I feel like they hit the shoulder about as well as the seated press.
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    Here is a video clip of how to do them....

    http://www.exrx.net/WeightExercises/...noldPress.html
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    Though the twisting motion could put more strain on your shoudlers the weight difference between shoulder presses and arnold presses makes it easier on the shoulders. For example with shoulder presses I usually use 75's for reps of 10, compared to 45's or 50's with arnold presses.
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    imo, the penultimate DBell shoulder exercise is standing one armed dumbbell press.

    i'm a fan of unilaterals on occasion, and this is a good one. generally speaking, i prefer to do all shoulder exercises standing (although i'm partial to the seated hammerstrength shoulder press) to teach the muscles to work in syncro

    but try your shoulder presses one arm at the time. it kicks ass.
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    Its a feel thing with me. I received the best results with Arnold presses and everyone I have put them on seem to like the feel a bit better than standard dumbell presses. IMO the shoulder is the one muscle group that is overtrained the most. I see people that dedicate an entire day to shoulders doing 12+ sets which IMO is entirely WAY too much. I do no more than 8 sets per week and never more than 4 in one day. It seems to work for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Its a feel thing with me. I received the best results with Arnold presses and everyone I have put them on seem to like the feel a bit better than standard dumbell presses. IMO the shoulder is the one muscle group that is overtrained the most. I see people that dedicate an entire day to shoulders doing 12+ sets which IMO is entirely WAY too much. I do no more than 8 sets per week and never more than 4 in one day. It seems to work for me.
    How would you say the shoulders get overtrained. My shoulder day consists of 3 sets of dumbell presses, 3 sets of side laterals, and 3 sets of bent over reverse laterals. What are your thoughts on my shoulder workout and selection of exercises?
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    Its a feel thing with me. I received the best results with Arnold presses and everyone I have put them on seem to like the feel a bit better than standard dumbell presses. IMO the shoulder is the one muscle group that is overtrained the most. I see people that dedicate an entire day to shoulders doing 12+ sets which IMO is entirely WAY too much. I do no more than 8 sets per week and never more than 4 in one day. It seems to work for me.
    Which is why i'm working overtime so I can get you to train me without my wife complaining So many things go into training and screwing up something you think was small can turn out disasterous. Going too low on my military presses messed my shoulders up and if I had known then...You know the saying.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu20
    How would you say the shoulders get overtrained. My shoulder day consists of 3 sets of dumbell presses, 3 sets of side laterals, and 3 sets of bent over reverse laterals. What are your thoughts on my shoulder workout and selection of exercises?
    They overtrain mostly by volume. People feel you have to hit the shoulders 12 times a week and you don't. People think you have to have 4 different exercises for the shoulder and you don't. This is what I do. 4 sets of Arnold presses 2x/week. Thats it. Now will that work for you? It might. Most of my clients have responded much better by doing that exercise and dropping their volume and weight used. Contrary to popular belief, you don't need heavy dumbell presses to grow. Use lighter weight, concetrate on form and you should see the results you want.

    Its basically what feels right for you. Some like behind the neck presses. Personally I can't stand them. Most people I see do dumbell presses but arch their back way to much taking away from the exercise. With Arnold presses it literally forces you to use lighter weight and in response your form usually improves.
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    Thanks bobo..I have done arnold presses before and was using a much lighter weight compared to my db press. Do you recommend the seated or standing arnold press?
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    I like seated. My lower back doesn't respond to well to standing presses. I also find a lot of people cheat when they stand. They add that little hitch to their pressing motion. If you can avoid that then just do what feels good for you.
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    Thanks Bobo.
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    Although I knew what Arnold Presses were I never did them. I stuck with the military press. Today at the gym I did three sets of them and I don't think i'm going back to military presses. I got twice the burn with less weights and usually I leave the gym on shoulder day with my shoulders on fire. Today I left with a solid pump and a slight burn. Good stuff, thanks for bringing up the subject.
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    I think I'm gonna start doing those for a while and see how they work for me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayhawkk
    Although I knew what Arnold Presses were I never did them. I stuck with the military press. Today at the gym I did three sets of them and I don't think i'm going back to military presses. I got twice the burn with less weights and usually I leave the gym on shoulder day with my shoulders on fire. Today I left with a solid pump and a slight burn. Good stuff, thanks for bringing up the subject.
    Sounds familiar
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    I tried Arnold's for the first time today. My workout partner, who is large only because he's been lifting for 10 years, not because he knows wtf he's talking about (same routine for the past 5 years), gave me some advice on form that I'm not sure I buy into.

    Here is the exrx.net .gif...

    And here is basically the same form from a different website:

    That's how I did my first two sets while he was doing something else...then he came over and told me that, on the lowering portion of the movement, not to bring the db's down in front of my chin/neck, but rather keep my upper arms parallel to the ground and the db's out in front of my face. Imagine the position your arms are in in the middle of the pec deck movement - he was telling me to look exactly like that. I found that it made the exercise harder, but I also felt more discomfort...after no discomfort the first two sets.


    Here, imagine this image, except he wants me to have the db's about 6" higher and in front of my face. That's how he wants me to do the bottom of the movement.

    Can you see what I'm saying and is his advice true? My left shoulder was separated about five years ago and since focusing on strengthening my rotator cuff it's been great...but I don't want to tweak it again.
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    Go all the way down. Don't listen to him. You want full range of motion. I have no clue why he is telling you do partials here.

    The guy in the top picture has the right idea but his form and posture are horrible (because he no support). THe guy in the second picture from what I see is doing it much better due to proper support.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Manu20
    I think I'm gonna start doing those for a while and see how they work for me.
    Me too.
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    I started doing Arnold Presses about six months ago, when a chronic shoulder problem (from military pressing and a weak rotator cuff) forced me to look for better exercises. It has become one of my favorite exercises, and it has really produced results. Best of all, my shoulders don't hurt anymore...well, not in the bad way!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Brodus
    I started doing Arnold Presses about six months ago, when a chronic shoulder problem (from military pressing and a weak rotator cuff) forced me to look for better exercises. It has become one of my favorite exercises, and it has really produced results. Best of all, my shoulders don't hurt anymore...well, not in the bad way!
    I started doing them when I signed up for the Body by Bobo plan and I love them. I too suffered from shoulder pain the last 6 months and my shoulders have never felt stronger since switching to them.
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    ... come on bonus !!!
    Waiting on my bonus so I can sign up for Body by Bobo
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    I tried them yesterday at the gym. I have had a hard time hitting the rear delts, but with the arnold presses I could hit them hard if I stayed light and went slow. Once I moved up to heavier weight I felt it hit the rest of the shoulder.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    Go all the way down. Don't listen to him. You want full range of motion. I have no clue why he is telling you do partials here.

    The guy in the top picture has the right idea but his form and posture are horrible (because he no support). The guy in the second picture from what I see is doing it much better due to proper support.

    Correct. The second picture is the right way to do these. In the first one his torso is moving and he is going really wide with the DB's (in an arc) and doesn't look like he is finishing the movement at the bottom. I wish there was a shot of the second guy from the front to see how it looks when you go straight up with the DB's. Slow, controlled movements with lower weight is much better at developing shoulders than heavy weight. It does not take much weight to sacrifice your form when performing shoulder movements and that is why a lot of people get hurt. Think about boxers and swordsmen. They always have large, ripped shoulders from lightweight/high rep movements. I think it was BOBO who said that more frequency with less volume worked much better on shoulders. I would agree with this statement in general. But form is paramount!!
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    I tried standing arnold presses for the 1st time today, after only doing shoulder/military presses before and I have to say they hit my front delts harder than they have ever been hit before. I used about 10lbs lessper DB than I was using for regular presses. but its definately worth the drop.
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    I think there is an agreement here that Time Under Tension (TUT) is of great importance when working delts, namely that they seem to require a given amount of TUT, larger than most muscle groups.

    I agree, although I have not been doing the Arnold Presses in my current routine, have used them, as well as other TUT-increasing techniques, with good success. Interestingly, the idea for this came from growing my forearms, then my calves with success, using TUT increases. My conclusion is that the denser muscle groups - Calves, Forearms and yes, I do believe that delts, while not as dense as the calves, are denser than most other muscles and benefit from more TUT.

    As to WHY that would be the case, well I wouldn't know.

    Does that make sense to you, Bobo?
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    This is cool

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    Quote Originally Posted by LunaHotel
    I think there is an agreement here that Time Under Tension (TUT) is of great importance when working delts, namely that they seem to require a given amount of TUT, larger than most muscle groups.

    I agree, although I have not been doing the Arnold Presses in my current routine, have used them, as well as other TUT-increasing techniques, with good success. Interestingly, the idea for this came from growing my forearms, then my calves with success, using TUT increases. My conclusion is that the denser muscle groups - Calves, Forearms and yes, I do believe that delts, while not as dense as the calves, are denser than most other muscles and benefit from more TUT.

    As to WHY that would be the case, well I wouldn't know.

    Does that make sense to you, Bobo?

    TUT is applicable for all muscle groups. It has been shown in study after study. Frequency is more important IMO with these muscle groups.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bobo
    TUT is applicable for all muscle groups. It has been shown in study after study. Frequency is more important IMO with these muscle groups.

    Do you use frequency in all dense muscle groups or "all muscle groups"

    I've done experiments in the past just to see how this works. One time, I had a workout partner with no calves. We tried doing an insane amount of calf work (20 sets/day) every day. Amazingly, we had no problems doing this and he actually made great progress. I tried the same thing with my traps. I found that I could handle only 4 days per week with 4-6 sets without having a "pain in the neck"

    I've also found that mixing it up from TUT to heavy with rest periods to high volume drop sets/circuits seems to work with most muscle types/groups.

    But one thing that I have only tried on a small scale (and which it seems is what Bobo likes) is low volume/ high frequency....correct me if I'm wrong here Bobo.

    With that said, would you (Bobo) agree that every muscle group should be hit more than once per week? And would you also agree that certain muscle groups (legs for instance) should be held to twice per week and others (such as calves) could be hit more than that?
  

  
 

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