Cardio Killed My Squat

[supersoldier]

I recently started doing cardio after not doing it for a long, long time. After 40 min. 3 days in a row, including my "off" day, my squat suffered. It suffered so bad that I racked the bar and decided to do chest, and when that didn't work I did a few sets of triceps and left, feeling defeated.

I didn't think my legs were taking that much of a beating by doing a little bit of running and a lot of Elliptocycle, but I could feel a lot of soreness going into my negatives even on warmup sets. And when I pushed to come up the power just wasn't there.

My squat has been dramatically improving lately, I add 20 lbs every other week for sets of 5. Last week was 335X5. Today I put 335 on there, struggled to get one, then almost had to break form to get 2, which is when I gave up.

I don't want to quit cardio, because I can already see an improvement in body composition plus I'm on clen and Tri-Max, but my squat is really important to me. I was thinking of swimming for cardio, as it would not give the legs such a thrashing and utilize the whole body equally.

Can anybody help me find a happy medium?

 

[LCSULLA]

SS are you doing cardio for fat loss or just conditioning?

 

[supersoldier]

SS are you doing cardio for fat loss or just conditioning?

Fatloss

 

[Sticks]

Stick with it man. As with all excercise your body will adapt. Just don't do cardio the day before, or of your leg workouts.

 

[LCSULLA]

What I would do. And what I am going to do. Is do Taku's Intervals a few days a week. Spread your workout over 8 days or so and do the intervals. except on the days prior to squating.

 

[supersoldier]

I guess cardio EOD would help instead of ED, to give the legs time to recover before being worked again. Plus not doing cardio the day before squat. Does anybody swim?

 

[LCSULLA]

Swimming is good, but it's total body and how many super cut swimmers have you seen. And your looking to cut up right? TAKU"S INTERVALS, period. Many MMA guys use it to get into shape, drop BF while keeping their muscles mass. Doing LDR's is good for aerobic conditioning but burns muscle. Intervals work 1000 times better. You workout is shorter and you burn more fat. Compare a sprinters body to a marathoners, end of story. And if you take a little something extra (PH-AAS)to help you while dieting, then it will burn even less muscle.

 

[supersoldier]

Swimming is good, but it's total body and how many super cut swimmers have you seen. And your looking to cut up right? TAKU"S INTERVALS, period. Many MMA guys use it to get into shape, drop BF while keeping their muscles mass. Doing LDR's is good for aerobic conditioning but burns muscle. Intervals work 1000 times better. You workout is shorter and you burn more fat. Compare a sprinters body to a marathoners, end of story. And if you take a little something extra (PH-AAS)to help you while dieting, then it will burn even less muscle.

Link?

 

[fiddler]

Fatloss

hey bro,

no carbs after 7:00 PM and first thing in the morning, walk for 35-45 minutes at 4.0 at most! then go home and chug a protein drink and then have breakfast.

the only day i don't do this is the day i do legs. oh yeah, your squat is going to suffer until your body gets used to it but it's only temporary.

fiddler

 

[supersoldier]

How 'bout http://www.t-nation.com/findArticle.do;jsessionid=E140FAA67B4D6CD251317A8873FB8D38.ba08?article=251run2

 

[supersoldier]

hey bro,

no carbs after 7:00 PM and first thing in the morning, walk for 35-45 minutes at 4.0 at most! then go home and chug a protein drink and then have breakfast.

That's what I did yesterday, sort of. I woke up, took 150mcg Clen and a Trimax with about 30g protein shake, went to the gym and did 45min Elliptocycle at about 70RPM. Maybe that's way too intense for that long.

 

[LCSULLA]

Yeah that will work well in the begining, but I talk to people that say Taku's workover Ironman triathletes, if done a max intensity. Here's a link.
http://trainforstrength.com/Endurance1.shtml

You may need to drop the dosage of Clen. Intervals push your Heart rate to the max. It's anarobic in nature and very hard.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

1. Don't do cardio 4 days in a row.

2. You shouldn't be losing that much strength. If you are, its your diet and overdoing cardio (classic mistake)

3. Don't do HIIT cardio if you weight train 4+ times a week. It will lead to overtraining as the hormonal response and glycogen dependency is virtually the same.

You want a medium in retaining strength while cutting up using Tri-Max and Clen? Proabably won't happen. High levels of T3 can overshadow just about anything.

 

[LCSULLA]

Bobo's right on all points. Thats why I suggested you spread your training out over 8-9 day period and do HIIT a few times a week 2-3. If you doing a classic highvolume BB type workout you will overtrain very quickly, unless you are a physical stud. I have seen guy do 4 days a week Taku's twice a day with no problems and heavy lifting. But almost all will overtrain. I still think for what you want Taku's is the way to go...with the right structure.

 

[supersoldier]

If you doing a classic highvolume BB type workout you will overtrain very quickly, unless you are a physical stud.

Have you seen my current cycle?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

I think HIIT cardio has its advantages but if you tihnk about it, the amount of fat it burns isn't much different than the weight training you do (as the hormonal responses are similar). HIIT definetly oxidizes FFA's at a greater rate than than low intensity but low intensity also shows greater release of stored triglycerides than HIIT. You can only oxidize so much before you start to breakdown stored amino's for fuel. So bascially what you want is to release them at a constant rate (low intensity) and let the weight training and diet oxidize them. This allows for a constant "release and burn" effect. If your looking for conditioning then definetly HIIT is a plus but consdiering your using drugs that further deplete glycogen, I would use it sparingly since your already weight training a good amount. If you weren't using the Tri-Max and Clen, then you might find a way to fit it in there but what most often occurs is muscle loss if your not careful. You lack of strength is already showing. I'm sure Taku's program works well for many people but consdiering your circumstances, I would be very careful. Both ways will work but one has less chance of slip ups IMO.

Also you need to check your diet. You MUST compensate for increased BMR and glycogen depletion when using certain drugs. Many people do NOT do this and the result is muscle loss. Just don't end up in a vicous cycle...

 

[supersoldier]

I just found it weird that up until today, all my lifts have gone up and all my workouts have been killer. So I found it to be more than coincidence that only my Squat workout was terrible seeing that all the cardio I've added is putting a lot of stress on my legs that wasn't there before.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Doing cardio 4 days in a row can kill anything...ESPECIALLY with Tri-Max.


My clients don't do more than cardio 4 times a week, and its not even close to HIIT!!

 

[LCSULLA]

Yeah, I see your points Bobo. So you think Triamx with HIIT is a no go? Or would it stiil work, if you were just trying to dropfat and were not overly concerned about sparring muscle?

 

[Dwight Schrute]

If not overly concerned about losing muscle, you will lose fat VERY fast but you could hit a wall pretty quick as your body will eventually adapt. Tri-Max or T3 would be a tricky thing with HIIT only if your doing a lot of weight trianing. For someone that doens't train much (say 2-3x/week) then you could incorporate it. High levels of T3 inhibit glyocgen synthesis rates (why you feel flat) even when used with androgens so its a must that you diet is adjusted for this (mainly by increasng carbs). Like I said there is a time and place for everything so considering what he's using, I would say low intensity is the way to go. But who knows, he could be one of those genetic freaks.....

 

[supersoldier]

But who knows, he could be one of those genetic freaks.....

Not a genetic freak, just a freak. And being on a ton of androgens helps with the non-genetic-freakness

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Uh oh....


If your losing strength that much and on androgens, you NEED to look at your diet. Please, for the love of your muscle!!

 

[supersoldier]

Uh oh....


If your losing strength that much and on androgens, you NEED to look at your diet. Please, for the love of your muscle!!

Yes from now on I will eat carbs all day, every day, except for before cardio and before bed.
I think today might have been an overtraining issue too

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Overtraining on a lot of androgens? Uhhh......

 

[jweave23]

yeah what is your diet like SS??

I'm actually running Tri-max/clen now with NO androgens.....call me crazy!! My lifts are down, but I'm expecting this, and have upped total calorie count by 500. I've ran Tri-max and clen on cycle and didn't have any strength loss, it can be done. I think Bobo has nailed a few good questions about your diet...and why in the hell are you doing cardio that many days in a row?!

BTW great points about low intensity cardio Bobo, I've read a few other places where guys always did low intensity on T3, makes sense

 

[supersoldier]

Diet: Here goes... This is the past week or so, this is "reduced calories" for me

If I'm lifting I'll wake up and eat a Met-Rx Big 100 Bar (I get them for 65 cents each ) with 30g more protein shake and a grapefruit, and take my M-Dien and M5AA

2 hours later throughout my workout I drink my PWO drink (dex/malto/hydro/BCAA, 10g creatine), about 35g Carb 20g Protein

When I get home if I'm lazy or pressed for time I'll eat 2 Big 100 Bars (65 cents each ) If I'm not lazy I'll eat 75g protein shake, and 1.5 cups oatmeal

Then the same thing 3 hours later, but only 60g protein (or two 65cent Big 100 Bars )

Then it had been a 60g protein shake and 1/4 cup raw, shelled sunflower seeds every 3 hours up until right before bed. But lately the 1/4 cup has turned into 1/8 cup, in hopes of burning more fat.

And I drink about 60g protein with 1/6 cup whole egg powder mixed in sometime in the middle of the night when I wake up to piss.

 

[supersoldier]

Overtraining on a lot of androgens? Uhhh......

Well I lifted 4 days in a row, and did cardio days 3,4,5, then tried to squat on day 6.

 

[jweave23]

Diet: Here goes... This is the past week or so, this is "reduced calories" for me

If I'm lifting I'll wake up and eat a Met-Rx Big 100 Bar (I get them for 65 cents each ) with 30g more protein shake and a grapefruit, and take my M-Dien and M5AA

2 hours later throughout my workout I drink my PWO drink (dex/malto/hydro/BCAA, 10g creatine), about 35g Carb 20g Protein

When I get home if I'm lazy or pressed for time I'll eat 2 Big 100 Bars (65 cents each ) If I'm not lazy I'll eat 75g protein shake, and 1.5 cups oatmeal

Then the same thing 3 hours later, but only 60g protein (or two 65cent Big 100 Bars )

Then it had been a 60g protein shake and 1/4 cup raw, shelled sunflower seeds every 3 hours up until right before bed. But lately the 1/4 cup has turned into 1/8 cup, in hopes of burning more fat.

And I drink about 60g protein with 1/6 cup whole egg powder mixed in sometime in the middle of the night when I wake up to piss.

wait......where the hell is your whole food man??!!

I see your portein intake is high, but you may want to up the calories (carbs esp), that does not seem ideal at all. What are your totals, calories and ratios?

 

[supersoldier]

wait......where the hell is your whole food man??!!

I see your portein intake is high, but you may want to up the calories (carbs esp), that does not seem ideal at all. What are your totals, calories and ratios?

Whole food is a luxury for me . Today is something like 400g protein, 350g carb, 40g fat, Bout 3500 calories give or take.

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Diet: Here goes... This is the past week or so, this is "reduced calories" for me

If I'm lifting I'll wake up and eat a Met-Rx Big 100 Bar (I get them for 65 cents each ) with 30g more protein shake and a grapefruit, and take my M-Dien and M5AA

2 hours later throughout my workout I drink my PWO drink (dex/malto/hydro/BCAA, 10g creatine), about 35g Carb 20g Protein

When I get home if I'm lazy or pressed for time I'll eat 2 Big 100 Bars (65 cents each ) If I'm not lazy I'll eat 75g protein shake, and 1.5 cups oatmeal

Then the same thing 3 hours later, but only 60g protein (or two 65cent Big 100 Bars )

Then it had been a 60g protein shake and 1/4 cup raw, shelled sunflower seeds every 3 hours up until right before bed. But lately the 1/4 cup has turned into 1/8 cup, in hopes of burning more fat.

And I drink about 60g protein with 1/6 cup whole egg powder mixed in sometime in the middle of the night when I wake up to piss.

SS you're killin me man!!!!

 

[supersoldier]

SS you're killin me man!!!!

Well if you need a "beta tester" for your services...

 

[Dwight Schrute]

LOL.....


My beta testers were many moons ago....but hell I might do this one for charity.


Half your carbs are from sugar!!! Say it ain't so!

 

[supersoldier]

Half your carbs are from sugar!!! Say it ain't so!

The saddest part is that I know better

 

[Dwight Schrute]

Well at least your not denying it!

 

[LCSULLA]

My question is......have you taken a **** since starting? Man you must be blocked up like hell.

 

[supersoldier]

Okay I did away with the Big 100 bars, and bought (actually my girlfriend bought for me ) 6 boxes of Post Shredded Wheat N' Bran, a loaf of whole wheat bread, 10 cans of fat free refried beans, and 3 tubs of old fashioned oats. I look better already, but man do I gotta **** after those beans

 

[supersoldier]

I went through with my squat workout today, got 335 for 4, 3, then 315 for 3, 275 for 6. Down from 335 X 5,4 315 for 4 last week, but much, much better than yesterday. Tomorrow's either completely off, or cardio. Haven't made up my mind yet but I'm leaning towards cardio, unless someone tells me otherwise.

 

[Jay Mc]

Hey bobo,

what do you think of HIIT cardio twice a week and low intensity twice a week. I'm lifting 3 days a week, HST style (I'd never tried it and thought it might be interesting on a cut) and on a cyclical diet. I'm taking ECY, vinegar and lemmon juice and ALA (on high carb days) as well as high doses of calcium.

J

 

[Dwight Schrute]

HIIT on any type of keto diet is asking for muscle loss if your not careful just because the fact your already depleted. It is very easy to push you across that threshhold into catabolism. You have to think of HIIT cardio as another weight session and adjust your diet accordinly. If you dont, you most certainly will lose muscle. Just be careful...

 

[fieyaa]

SS: what are your other lifts like?

and Jay Mc your avatar needs a tan

 

[LCSULLA]

what do you think of HIIT cardio twice a week and low intensity twice a week. I'm lifting 3 days a week, HST style (I'd never tried it and thought it might be interesting on a cut) and on a cyclical diet. I'm taking ECY, vinegar and lemmon juice and ALA (on high carb days) as well as high doses of calcium.

Bro if that is you in your Avarter then why do you need to cut? You seem like your super lean already.

 

[Jay Mc]

and Jay Mc your avatar needs a tan

haha, agreed, that was a pic from during the winter year before last. The reason I'm cutting is because I just spent 6 months in latin america where my training consisted of lifting liters of beer to my face and my diet was basically white rice with tons of butter and beans every day. So I got up to a pudgy 12% body fat (the highest i've ever been in my entire life) and dropped a solid 15 lbs of muscle. So i'm gonna get the fat off and then put the muscle back on. I'm not doing too bad, already in the 8's and I haven't even completed my 3rd week of cutting!

J

 

[supersoldier]

SS: what are your other lifts like?

and Jay Mc your avatar needs a tan

Deadlift 410 X 10 , Bench sucks, something like 245X6, can do 11 overhand pullups with 4 second negatives at 220lb bodyweight. Bent over rows 275X6. Hmmm... what else? Hammer Strength Shrug 6 plates on each side for 20 reps. Seated calf raise 8 plates X 10. Standing calf raise whatever the rack is (usually around 400 at the gyms I go to) for 25+. Decline situps with 75lb dumbell on chest X20, 100lb dumbell X15. Am I missing anything? I don't do curls much, but I hit dumbell curls for 50 X 6 last week. I'm not bragging about anything but the deadlift. And my bench is definitely sorry.