Why Deadlifts instead of Power Cleans in 5x5 programs

[fadi]

Hello guys,

So the Bodybuilding, and newer versions of Starr's 5x5 programs replaced Power Cleans with Deadlifts. Anyone knows the logic behind it?

Starr in his book specifically called out Deadlifts and recommended against them for their high potential of injury and said it can be easily substituted with other workout. He prefers Power Cleans over Deadlifts.

 

[Killerkanadia]

I don't prefer power cleans to deadlifts, but it makes sense why you would add them to a strength training 5x5 workout.

 

[Resolve]

For bodybuilding purposes they provide more TUT. That's the only thing I can think of. I do both DLs and Power Cleans.

 

[waynaferd]

I'm thinking you can move ALOT more weight with deads, and 5x5 is pretty much a strength program. That's my guess, anyway.

If you can do 400# deads for reps, I think that would do more for overall strength than say 200# for PC's.

Maybe rotate them out every other week for best results? IDK

 

[Rhyno]

Power cleans are hard to do correctly while deadlifts can be learned fairly easy. I can attribute most of my back thickness to cleans so it is hard to say if one is more efficient than the other. My guess would be that the switch was made to make the program more user friendly. Plus, deads are a fuggin' manly ass lift.

 

[fadi]

I'm thinking you can move ALOT more weight with deads, and 5x5 is pretty much a strength program. That's my guess, anyway.

If you can do 400# deads for reps, I think that would do more for overall strength than say 200# for PC's.

Maybe rotate them out every other week for best results? IDK

Well, Starr's original 5x5 is made for strength training and it is adopted and adapted because of that. However, Power Cleans seem to be the only workout replaced. That is why I am wondering.

 

[fadi]

Power cleans are hard to do correctly while deadlifts can be learned fairly easy. I can attribute most of my back thickness to cleans so it is hard to say if one is more efficient than the other. My guess would be that the switch was made to make the program more user friendly. Plus, deads are a fuggin' manly ass lift.

That is what I am suspecting. Deadlifts are easier to apply. I think I will start with light weight to get the form right and start incorporating Power Cleans in my workouts to try it out.

 

[MM11]

I second the notion of being able to do more weight with deads being the reason. Personally I like cleans but I don't know anyone who can clean near what they dead.

 

[Tex44]

First of all there is simply no logic to Starr's 5x5 program. First we need to look at what % at doing the 5x5, second it's not smart to stick with only the dead. Look at the conjugated methods, you need to always rotate your lifts. If your wanting to get stronger on the dead lift you only need to do the lift once a month. You have to think of all the muscles that make up the dead lift and focus on those lifts also. example(wide-leg good mornings, pull throughs, seated good mornings, reverse hyper,etc.) you also need to incorporate a dynamic day, max effort day and the list goes on and on. The europeans methods by far are the most effective ways to training NOT the progressive overload system which we mostly use in the United States. Teams using the conjugated methods are Indianapolis Colts, Green Bay Packers, Chicago bears and a few more. Colleges Iowa, Missouri, USC and also a few more.

 

[Moeller]

First of all there is simply no logic to Starr's 5x5 program. First we need to look at what % at doing the 5x5, second it's not smart to stick with only the dead. Look at the conjugated methods, you need to always rotate your lifts. If your wanting to get stronger on the dead lift you only need to do the lift once a month. You have to think of all the muscles that make up the dead lift and focus on those lifts also. example(wide-leg good mornings, pull throughs, seated good mornings, reverse hyper,etc.) you also need to incorporate a dynamic day, max effort day and the list goes on and on. The europeans methods by far are the most effective ways to training NOT the progressive overload system which we mostly use in the United States. Teams using the conjugated methods are Indianapolis Colts, Green Bay Packers, Chicago bears and a few more. Colleges Iowa, Missouri, USC and also a few more.

Another method would be to periodize your lifts by training for a single lift by simply dividing it's motions up and allowing the 'weak' links to be trained. Example= Training for Power Cleans

Progression:
Week 1= Deadlifts
Week 2= Rack Pull & Shrug (one motion)
Week 3= Hang Cleans
Week 4= Power Cleans

 

[brownstown89]

First of all there is simply no logic to Starr's 5x5 program. First we need to look at what % at doing the 5x5, second it's not smart to stick with only the dead. Look at the conjugated methods, you need to always rotate your lifts. If your wanting to get stronger on the dead lift you only need to do the lift once a month. You have to think of all the muscles that make up the dead lift and focus on those lifts also. example(wide-leg good mornings, pull throughs, seated good mornings, reverse hyper,etc.) you also need to incorporate a dynamic day, max effort day and the list goes on and on. The europeans methods by far are the most effective ways to training NOT the progressive overload system which we mostly use in the United States. Teams using the conjugated methods are Indianapolis Colts, Green Bay Packers, Chicago bears and a few more. Colleges Iowa, Missouri, USC and also a few more.

yea dude i agree, the 5 x 5 is soo overrated..id much rather use WSBB routine or a Periodzation routine..5 x 5 on deadlift is retarded..

 

[SRS2000]

yea dude i agree, the 5 x 5 is soo overrated..id much rather use WSBB routine or a Periodzation routine..5 x 5 on deadlift is retarded..

There are no set in stone rules with this stuff. Many people have become extremely strong by using primarily the main lifts and not rotating lifts all the time. There have also been many who haves used a more "Westside" approach and gotten very strong as well. You have to train for a while to figure out what type of system works best for you. For example, rotating movments all the time doesn't do anything for my SQ and I need to do regular free squats nearly every week. Doing sets of 3-5 reps also works well for my SQ and BP. For the DL, I don't have to pull every week and I do better with singles.