Rounder, broader, larger shoulders! - AnabolicMinds.com

Rounder, broader, larger shoulders!

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    Rounder, broader, larger shoulders!


    I would like suggestions for fuller and rounder shoulders. I do plenty of military presses and other exercises that hit the front and side deltoids but I need to hit the rear part of my shoulders more.

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    Deadlifts, rack deadlifts. Pull your shoulder backwards at lockout, not up as you would in a shrug. It works great for many including myself
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    Bent over rows, clean and press, reverse flies... these should create a well rounded shoulder.
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    Wide Upright Rows
    Facepulls
    Rotator Cuff Work (In/Ex Rotation)
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Reverse flys for sure. I like to do plenty of drop sets with these and make them nice and slow and cpntrolled. Go to failure. I am also curious on how deadlifts bring out your rear delt. Never heard it befor.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Wide Upright Rows
    Facepulls
    Rotator Cuff Work (In/Ex Rotation)
    I did quite a bit of upright rows in my 20's (35 now) and liked them as a mass builder, but was repeatedly told and read that they are hard on the shoulder and likely to cause injury. Is that still the consensus with physiologists or is that outdated?

    Not trying to flame, just curious
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    Quote Originally Posted by crux View Post
    I did quite a bit of upright rows in my 20's (35 now) and liked them as a mass builder, but was repeatedly told and read that they are hard on the shoulder and likely to cause injury. Is that still the consensus with physiologists or is that outdated?

    Not trying to flame, just curious
    This is a point of debate amongst many trainers and I contend that it is not a lift that is best done in the 6-8 range, but more along the 10-12 range. TUT is a major factor and proper form is even more important. The main problem that I see is that people pull with their wrists instead of their elbows and that is what puts a lot of strain on the rotators, tendons, ligaments, etc.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    Make sure you are doing plenty of rear delt work, everyone forgets the shoulder is 3 main muscles (well and the SITS muscles of the rotator cuff) anterior, medial, and posterior delts. Bringing up your rear will make your side profile look bada$$, and important in creating a round even shoulder that looks proportioned to the body.

    Bent over raises, palms down is my fav.

    Upright rows, and side/front raises are important in shaping, and incorporating stabilizer muscles, and adjacent connective tissues.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    Wide Upright Rows
    Facepulls
    Rotator Cuff Work (In/Ex Rotation)
    ??? Internal/external rotation is not going to create any drastic shape to the shoulder, in terms of rounding things out. Strengthen rotator cuff, yes, add shape, no.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rodja View Post
    This is a point of debate amongst many trainers and I contend that it is not a lift that is best done in the 6-8 range, but more along the 10-12 range. TUT is a major factor and proper form is even more important. The main problem that I see is that people pull with their wrists instead of their elbows and that is what puts a lot of strain on the rotators, tendons, ligaments, etc.
    This is a good reply, and I value your insight and training. However, if there is a concern about an exercise being potentially dangerous at high poundage, and it can only be performed at a 10-12 rep range, then maybe it is simply an exercise that shouldn't be performed. We are talking about a compound movement (at least 3 joints not counting the spine work and legs), so it should really be considered a mass-building movement, rather than an isolation exercise. If someone cannot go relatively heavy on upright rows (wide grip or otherwise) for mass what is the point of doing 10-12 reps? Might as well do sets of 50 upright rows with two cans of Mountain Dew.

    Don't get me wrong: I do 10-12 rep exercises at times. But not for mass. I do warm-ups, some isolation and finishing movements that way. I also have no doubt that there are people who have done upright rows for years, have never had an injury, and will swear by them. But the moment they receive a warning label that they can only be done at high reps/low weight is the moment I know all I need to know about their potential for injury.
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    I do not like upright rows always end up injured. i used to do them in the beginning not anymore.

    make sure you start rotator cuff work from the beginning I wish I would have.

    Best advice I can give you Op is front standing or seated military press either barbell or smith or both. and the seated dumbbell press as mass builders.

    Larry Scott presses(very similar to the Arnold press) are great for hitting the side delts and front creating the capped look. you'll have to lower the weight a bit and nothing replaces that full side delt look

    YouTube- Larry Scott Shoulder Workout


    side deltoids are what make the delts have that capped look so logically standing or seated side delt raises as well. but in the beginning focus on getting the strength up on military front presses and or dumbbell press.(used to do behind the neck but no more too many injuries this way, Ive tried them all the way down first, didn't do them for years tried them mid ear , every time I do them after I start getting strong I get injured )
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    The reason upright rows are bad is the simultaneous internal rotation that creates impingement injuries. I would never recommend them. Besides, if your press is progressing you don't need the extra work anyway.
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    The reason upright rows are bad is the simultaneous internal rotation that creates impingement injuries. I would never recommend them. Besides, if your press is progressing you don't need the extra work anyway.
    It depends on the range of motion, form used, and grip.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    It depends on the range of motion, form used, and grip.
    The actions occurring are all the same. Simultaneous internal rotation. And since the internal rotators are 8 times out of 10 stronger than the external rotators they do not need extra focus.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingk0ng View Post
    The actions occurring are all the same. Simultaneous internal rotation. And since the internal rotators are 8 times out of 10 stronger than the external rotators they do not need extra focus.
    Feel free to post some literature that supports your statement.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Feel free to post some literature that supports your statement.
    Are you serious? You are not aware of shoulder imbalances? OK. Here's some.

    Shoulder characteristics in weight trainers

    Injuries related to weight training has increased during the past decade, with 36% of weight training related injuries and disorders occurring at the shoulder joint (Goertzen et al., 1989; Keogh et al., 2006). 25-30% of the individuals participating in weight training have reported injuries sever enough to seek medical help (Jones et al., 2000; Powell et al., 1998).

    Weight training places stress on the shoulder by requiring a conventionally non-weight bearing joint to bear significant loads during the course of repetitive lifting (Kolber et al., 2009). Traditional weight training exercises have been shown to create muscular imbalances and predispose the shoulder to injury by placing the joint in biomechanical unfavorable positions, such as bottom of ROM external rotations (Gross et al., 1993). Furthermore, programs biased toward specific bodyparts generally place emphasis on developing the large primary movers while neglecting the smaller stabilization muscles required for mobility, balance, and unimpaired shoulder function (Barlow et al., 2002).

    Kolber et al. (2009) tested the shoulder muscular strength, function, and mobility of 90 experienced male weight trainers compared to a sedentary population. The researchers reported significantly greater strength among weight trainers of the abductors, internal rotators, and upper trapezius fibers. The greater strength values are because typicall training programs target the deltoids, upper trapezius, and internal rotators (pectoralis and latissimus dorsi). The strength of the external rotators and lower trapezius, however, were not different than the sedentary population. The imbalance in strength between internal/external rotators, abductor/external rotator, and upper/lower trapezius fibers illustrates the training induced strength imbalances between muscle groups that normally function together to execute a movement.

    There is significant evidence that individuals with shoulder disorders possess greater deficits in external rotation strength compared to internal rotation strength (MacDermid et al., 2004; Reddy et al., 2000; Tata et al., 1993; Wang & Cochrane, 2001; Warner et al., 1990). During over head pressing movements, the external rotators function together with the deltoid to effective elevate the arm over head. Imbalances created by exercise programs that emphasize the deltoid and neglect the external rotators often result in altered muscle coordination, redistricted range of motions, and shoulder impingement (Kolber et al., 2009). Insufficient muscle strength of the lower trapezius fibers have also been linked to shoulder impingement (Cools et al., 2007).

    Weight training can also result in mobility dysfunctions. Bodybuilders display a decreased active range of motion among shoulder flexion, abduction, and internal rotation, compared with excessive external rotation ROMs. Additionally, there are greater restriction on the posterior soft tissue due to internal rotation loss and lack of exercises or stretching that improves the flexibility of the posterior joint capsule (Kolber et al., 2009; Wang & Cochrane, 2001; Warner et al., 1990). Furthermore, posterior shoulder tightness may be responsible for limited mobility, resulting in glenoid labrum detachment and impingement syndromes (Bach & Golberg, 2006).

    Kolber demonstrated that traditional weight training programs do not include the exercises necessary to strengthen the stabilization muscles required during normal shoulder function. Additionally, emphasizing only the large movers such as the pectoralis, latissimus dorsi, and deltoids creates a strength and flexibility imbalance at the shoulder joint. Encorporating exercises that strengthen the external rotator cuff muscles and scapular fixation musculature along with select flexibility exercises for internal rotation and the posterior capsule should: balance strength ratios needed for coordinated shoulder function; increase soft tissue flexibility balance as required for normal shoulder mobility; improve the strength of the humeral head depressors thus helping to prevent impingement with over head exercises; and, reduce the more common risk factors associated with shoulder disorders.


    Kolber, J., Beekhuizen, S., Cheng, S., Hellman, MA. Shoulder Joint and Muscle Characteristics in the Recreational Weight Training Population. The Journal of Strength & Conditioning Research, 23(1):148-157, January 2009.

    Cools, AM, Declercq, GA, Cambier, DC, Mahieu, NN, and
    Witvrouw, EE. Trapezius activity and intramuscular balance during
    isokinetic exercise in overhead athletes with impingement symptoms.
    Scand J Med Sci Sports 17: 25–33, 2007.

    Barlow, JC, Benjamin, BW, Birt, P, and Hughes, CJ. Shoulder
    strength and range-of-motion characteristics in bodybuilders.
    J Strength Cond Res 16: 367–372, 2002.
    Bach, H., & Golberg, B. Posterior capsular contracture of the shoulder. J Am Acad Orthop Surgery 14, 265-277, 2006.
    Goertzen, M, Schoppe, K, Lange, G, and Schulitz, KP. Injuries and
    damage caused by excess stress in bodybuilding and power lifting.
    Sportverletz Sportschaden 3: 32–36, 1989.
    Gross, ML, Brenner, SL, Esformes, I, and Sonzogni, JJ. Anterior
    shoulder instability in weight lifters. Am J Sports Med 21: 599–603,
    1993.
    Keogh, J, Hume, PA, and Pearson, S. Retrospective injury
    epidemiology of one hundred one competitive Oceania power
    lifters: the effects of age, body mass, competitive standard, and
    gender. J Strength Cond Res 20: 672–681, 2006.
    Jones, C, Christensen, C, and Young, M. Weight training injury
    trends. Phys Sportsmed 28: 1–7, 2000.
    Powell, KE, Heath, GW, Kresnow, MJ, Sacks, JJ, and Branche, CM.
    Injury rates from walking, gardening, weightlifting, outdoor
    bicycling, and aerobics. Med Sci Sports Exerc 30: 1246–1249, 1998.
    MacDermid, JC, Ramos, J, Drosdowech, D, Faber, K, and
    Patterson, S. The impact of rotator cuff pathology on isometric and
    isokinetic strength, function, and quality of life. J Shoulder Elbow Surg
    13: 593–598, 2004.
    Reddy, AS, Mohr, KJ, Pink, MM, and Jobe, FW. Electromyographic
    analysis of the deltoid and rotator cuff muscles in persons with
    subacromial impingement. J Shoulder Elbow Surg 9: 519–523, 2000.
    Tata, EG, Ng, L, and Kramer, JF. Shoulder antagonist strength ratios
    during concentric and eccentric muscle actions in the scapular plane.
    J Orthop Sports Phys Ther 18: 654–660, 1993.
    Wang, HK and Cochrane, T. Mobility impairment, muscle
    imbalance, muscle weakness, scapular asymmetry and shoulder
    injury in elite volleyball athletes. J Sports Med Phys Fitness 41:
    403–410, 2001.

    Warner, JJ, Micheli, LJ, Arslanian, LE, Kennedy, J, and Kennedy, R.
    Patterns of flexibility, laxity, and strength in normal shoulders and
    shoulders with instability and impingement. Am J Sports Med 18:
    366–375, 1990.
    Links to reads on shoulder imbalances:

    http://www.muscleandscience.com/foru...ulders-in-2010

    http://www.muscleandscience.com/foru...glenoid-health!

    Quote from an article:

    I don't believe in contraindicated exercises, only contraindicated individuals. But if there's one exercise that'll ever push me over the line, it's going to be the upright row. This is as internally rotated as the humerus will get, and you're elevating the humerus right into the impingement zone on every rep. For that reason, I'll never write upright rows into a program. The dumbbell version is a slightly safer alternative, although I feel that there are still much safer ways to challenge the upper traps and deltoids. To summarize, if you've ever had a shoulder problem or are at risk, you'd be wise to omit upright rows altogether.
    http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...124E2-hh.hydra
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    Good info, I wasn't really that aware of the details in any depth. As to what the exact issues were pertaining to...cool deal bro.
    The LORD is my rock, my fortress, and my savior; my God is my rock, in whom I find protection. He is my shield, the power that saves me, and my place of safety.-Psalm 18:2
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    Good info, I wasn't really that aware of the details in any depth. As to what the exact issues were pertaining to...cool deal bro.
    Thanks man. Glad you found it useful.
    Former Marine, UT-BSN, NSCA-CPT, NASM-CPT, CSCS
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    facepulls have been shown to work the rear delts more than any other shoulder exercise

    http://www.tmuscle.com/free_online_a...trap_exercises
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    Try a superset of Arnold presses with an exercise that hits the rear delts. Afterward, flex your shoulder muscles to draw more blood into that area which will help you better establish feel, increase training intensity and keep everything tight. After your shoulder routine make sure you stretch those muscles out!
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    Quote Originally Posted by TripDog View Post
    ??? Internal/external rotation is not going to create any drastic shape to the shoulder, in terms of rounding things out. Strengthen rotator cuff, yes, add shape, no.
    Alas, shoulder health and integrity will do more than any 1 particular lift for mass.
    M.Ed. Ex Phys
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    i found this superset online, ive found it very useful. after i do my olympic style presses, this is what i do to really tear my shoulders up. do this with a fairly light dumbell.
    12 reps front raises (or rear raises if front delts have got enought work already)
    12 reps side (lateral raises)
    12 reps military press
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    I suffer from Left should instability related to collar bone snap 3 different times in the same spot. SO I tend to spend a considerable amount of time attempting to build my shoulders up. I just started with this shoulder warm up I found (no linky I not old enough yet ) go to youtube and search for "Ultimate Two Minute Shoulder Warm-up"
    Then my somewhat normal routine is:
    arnold press 6-8r x3
    db press 6-8r x3
    reverse pec dec 8r x3
    db front raise 8-10r x3
    db lat raise 8-10r x3
    cable bent over press 8-10r x3 (never knew what this damn thing was called, put the cable in the bottom position, grab the D handles set and lean forward in lunge position and press keeping your elbows and shoulder in line with your back. you should be leaning forward about 45 degree angle.)
    finish with single arm cable later raise and press 8-10r x3
    It varies a little from week to week sometimes I modify the exercises or substitue others depending on where I feel my shoulders are lacking
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    rounded shoulders really are a product of good medial delts. I always train rear delts as part of my back workout, not with shoulders. Favorite medial delt exercises: 1 arm DB push press hard and heavy, sets of 3-5 reps and 1 arm lean away lateral raises (grab onto a power rack or cable fixture).

    Rear delts: face pulls, bent over reverse flyes, BW inverted rows, and for a novel stimulus every once in a while: lean away chin ups (start as a regular chin up then lean back and try to finish as a BW row). Really any pulling motion toward your face/neck.
  

  
 

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