AM I OVERTRAINING!?

[AndreAnabolic]

hey AM, i need a bit of help, i am natural and ive been training for about 5 to 6 years now, and i just recently came up with a new split a month or two ago. it is a 3 day on 1 day off split

day 1: chest/tris
day 2: legs shoulders
day 3: Back/bis
day 4: off
day 5: repeat from day 1 and so on

i was just wondering if this training split is concidered over training and will it threaten my gains? please let me know! and if so, would somebody please suggest a training split that has shown positive results for a natural bodybuilder! thank u

[metroba]

hey AM, i need a bit of help, i am natural and ive been training for about 5 to 6 years now, and i just recently came up with a new split a month or two ago. it is a 3 day on 1 day off split

day 1: chest/tris
day 2: legs shoulders
day 3: Back/bis
day 4: off
day 5: repeat from day 1 and so on

i was just wondering if this training split is concidered over training and will it threaten my gains? please let me know! and if so, would somebody please suggest a training split that has shown positive results for a natural bodybuilder! thank u

Well as long as you are getting in enough cals to help with recovery this will be a great split. I personally like the 2 on/1off/2 on/2 off routine best but that is just me. I have made the largest gains in all my years of training with this protocol. Hope this helps and good luck!

[SRS2000]

With the split you have, I would do the 2 on/1 off, 2 on/2 off while keeping the three way split you have. So the first week you would have chest/tri, legs/shoulders, off, back/bi's, chest/tri, off, off. This way every week some areas will get trained twice, while everything else gets trained once. Then something different gets hit twice the next week.
Personally I have seen the best gains with an upper/lower split with a heavy and light day for each every week. Of course my focus is powerlifting so that kind of split may not have enough arm work for someone focused on bodybuilding. I will say I've gained way more size and strength in the last 5 years using this than I did the previous 12 years doing "bodybuilding" splits.

[corsaking]

hi you could consider an adaptogen such as rhodiola to help with recovery

[metroba]

haha good supp advice but kinda random

[corsaking]

haha good supp advice but kinda random

nothings random if it helps achieve your goal

[metroba]

I hear ya man. He was asking about his routine tho and you told him to get rhodiola. Just thought it was funny. No harm no foul tho

[UGHQTempus]

day 1: chest/tris
day 2: legs shoulders
day 3: Back/bis
day 4: off
day 5: repeat from day 1 and so on

I think this split is foolish. You would be doing squats and then coming in the next day to do deads. Assuming your exercise selection is legit, you are just sapping your gains. Same with chest on monday - you are going to use the delts there and they won't be as strong for tuesday.

Of course, this all depends on your level of intensity, exercise selection, set/rep counts, tempo and if you are training to failure. With my current training style this would be suicide but I have had some that fit this better (although I'd prefer a 2 a day to this split.)

If you goal is hypertrophy and you aren't worried as much about strength gains then I'd go back to MWF whole body workouts with just the primiary stuff. Possibly with a variable exercise rotation to make sure the order is different and nothing is constantly left as being too weak.

But if you are pushing the CNS then you won't have nearly enough recovery and you won't gain like you'd expect.

With a split like that I'd never train to failure. I'd probably do weights in the 12rm zone for 9-10 reps and do 4-5 sets. 2-3 exercises per body part. 1-2 min rest. 2/0/2/0 tempo. No drop sets. No forced reps.

But I think that split is a poor idea. Especially for a natural lifter.

[AndreAnabolic]

I think this split is foolish. You would be doing squats and then coming in the next day to do deads. Assuming your exercise selection is legit, you are just sapping your gains. Same with chest on monday - you are going to use the delts there and they won't be as strong for tuesday.

Of course, this all depends on your level of intensity, exercise selection, set/rep counts, tempo and if you are training to failure. With my current training style this would be suicide but I have had some that fit this better (although I'd prefer a 2 a day to this split.)

If you goal is hypertrophy and you aren't worried as much about strength gains then I'd go back to MWF whole body workouts with just the primiary stuff. Possibly with a variable exercise rotation to make sure the order is different and nothing is constantly left as being too weak.

But if you are pushing the CNS then you won't have nearly enough recovery and you won't gain like you'd expect.

With a split like that I'd never train to failure. I'd probably do weights in the 12rm zone for 9-10 reps and do 4-5 sets. 2-3 exercises per body part. 1-2 min rest. 2/0/2/0 tempo. No drop sets. No forced reps.

But I think that split is a poor idea. Especially for a natural lifter.

I don't recall stating that I do deadlifts on back day. And I make sure that all my groups feel fresh and ready to go before I lift. And as for the full body workouts would u be able to quickly type out an example of what that would entail? I'd like to give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion and opinion

[TXCope]

the question was are you over training. No not with your current split IMO

[Gonzo14]

Overtraining, depending on your regime my main concern would be your delts. otherwise I dont think your overtraining, But i think your spilt could use a lot of work. dont narrow your self down. Theres 7 days in a week. Now i can take for granted you cannot lift 7 days a week, but keep options open, swtich around pairings, or dont pair.
My spilt looks like this.
Day 1. Chest/tri
day 2. legs
day 3. off/core/cardio
day 4. back/bis
day 5. shoulders
day 6. off/core/cardio
day 7. off
Everyday has option core work and forearm work depending on my energy levels.
As you can see things get trained once a week so I hit it very hard, to failure, and past it. With drop, forced, and sets to straight failure to there is no movement possible in the lift.

[brownstown89]

i use to use that split it worked great.

[corsaking]

I think this split is foolish. You would be doing squats and then coming in the next day to do deads. Assuming your exercise selection is legit, you are just sapping your gains. Same with chest on monday - you are going to use the delts there and they won't be as strong for tuesday.

Of course, this all depends on your level of intensity, exercise selection, set/rep counts, tempo and if you are training to failure. With my current training style this would be suicide but I have had some that fit this better (although I'd prefer a 2 a day to this split.)

If you goal is hypertrophy and you aren't worried as much about strength gains then I'd go back to MWF whole body workouts with just the primiary stuff. Possibly with a variable exercise rotation to make sure the order is different and nothing is constantly left as being too weak.

But if you are pushing the CNS then you won't have nearly enough recovery and you won't gain like you'd expect.

With a split like that I'd never train to failure. I'd probably do weights in the 12rm zone for 9-10 reps and do 4-5 sets. 2-3 exercises per body part. 1-2 min rest. 2/0/2/0 tempo. No drop sets. No forced reps.

But I think that split is a poor idea. Especially for a natural lifter.

This is where the rhodiola comes in

[UGHQTempus]

This is where the rhodiola comes in

I haven't seen a single study supporting that. Got any?

[UGHQTempus]

I don't recall stating that I do deadlifts on back day. And I make sure that all my groups feel fresh and ready to go before I lift. And as for the full body workouts would u be able to quickly type out an example of what that would entail? I'd like to give it a shot. Thanks for the suggestion and opinion

How do you expect to "feel fresh" on a split like that?

I can easily put together a full body setup for you but you didn't respond to most of my posting so we'd be at cross purposes.

Here is the bullet point version:

If you work out with max intensity then you need more recovery. You can't work the same body part or even overlap them with max intensity and keep the performance levels high.

You need to plan that supports YOUR goals. This means you need to clearly and effectively state your goals. What are you trying to do? When do you need to do it by? How are you measuring it? (ie. Gain 10 lbs of LBM in 8 weeks. Or add 15 lbs to your 1RM for incline press in a month. Or cut 10 lbs of fat/3% BF in 8 weeks.)

---

As for the deadlifts. If you aren't doing deads then why work it at all? Routines should be based on deads, squats, presses, cleans and shrugs. Mostly because I love shrugs. They are basic lifts for a reason: they works. Strength. Power. Mass. That's how you make it all happen. If you happen to be nearing your genetic potential and are looking to refine your package then, sure, focus on something else. But that is far down the road.

Basic compound lifts should be the core of your workouts for the first 5 to 10 years.

[corsaking]

I haven't seen a single study supporting that. Got any?

http://www.clarocet.com/referencelib...ea/science.htm

[bleedingthrou]

Your routine does look a little crammed i think you will definitely beat your body up doing your split. My own opinion

I personally run a 2 on 1 off split, the bulk of my gains came from this split i went from 150lbs in August of 2006 to 216lbs as of this morning, Everyones body is different though.


Day 1: Back
Day 2: Shoulders/Tris
Day 3: Off
Day 4: Legs
Day 5: Chest/Bis
Day 6: Off
Day 7: Repeat

Work bis on chest so as not to overtrain my tris, i dont work bis on back becaus frankly i am exhausted after back day.

This has been the most beneficial routine for me, i always feel rested, i will occasionally take an extra day off if i havent recovered, and sometimes ill change the schedule to 2-on-1-off 2-on-2-off

[bleedingthrou]

And I agree w/ UGHQTempus, training should be focused around Squats, Deadlifts, Bench press (i personally do incline press over bench press), Shoulder press

[AndreAnabolic]

How do you expect to "feel fresh" on a split like that?

I can easily put together a full body setup for you but you didn't respond to most of my posting so we'd be at cross purposes.

Here is the bullet point version:

If you work out with max intensity then you need more recovery. You can't work the same body part or even overlap them with max intensity and keep the performance levels high.

You need to plan that supports YOUR goals. This means you need to clearly and effectively state your goals. What are you trying to do? When do you need to do it by? How are you measuring it? (ie. Gain 10 lbs of LBM in 8 weeks. Or add 15 lbs to your 1RM for incline press in a month. Or cut 10 lbs of fat/3% BF in 8 weeks.)

---

As for the deadlifts. If you aren't doing deads then why work it at all? Routines should be based on deads, squats, presses, cleans and shrugs. Mostly because I love shrugs. They are basic lifts for a reason: they works. Strength. Power. Mass. That's how you make it all happen. If you happen to be nearing your genetic potential and are looking to refine your package then, sure, focus on something else. But that is far down the road.

Basic compound lifts should be the core of your workouts for the first 5 to 10 years.

sorry i havent been replying pretty busy with mid-terms. i try not to do deads too often because i have a pretty crappy lower back, im doing some physio and seeing a sports therapist once a week to try n take care of it, for now im just sticking to squats, bench, shoulder press, dips, and chinups for my compounds. right now im sitting at 5'11 212-215 at approx 10-11% bf. im trying to get up to around 230-235 by xmas while staying below 15% (if thats attainable) my routine includes

day 1: Chest/Tris

Incline barbell: 4x8
Decline Barbell: 3X8
DB Flies: 3X10
weighted dips: 4X8
DB Tri Extention: 3X10
rope pushdowns: 4x10

day 2: Legs/shoulders
Front Squats: 4x8
Split Squats: 3x8
ham curls: 3x10
leg ext: 3x10
calf raises: 3x10
shoulder press: 3x10
lateral raise drop sets: 3x10-10-10

day 3: back bis
wide grip chins: 4x6
T-bar rows: 3x8
seated wide grip row: 3x8
zottman curls: 3x10
reverse ez bar curls 3x10

day 4: off

day 5: back to day 1

Please critic and let me know how i can make some changes to my routine.