deadlifting and squats

[time lord]

i've been lifting 9+ years, gone through many different programs and lifted for many many different purposes...

lately i've come to the conclusion that i prefer to not do deadlifts and squats in the same cycle (i run a 6wk periodization right now)...

i seem to notice much more growth and progression when i stick to one of the two, and switch to the other when i start my program over.

i still run stiff-legged deads continuously...

my question is does anyone else do this? i ask the more serious lifters at my gym but 99.9% of them don't deadlift period.

am i overlooking anything by only doing one and not the other? i have plenty of rationale for doing things my way but am basically looking for any good arguments for running both deadlifts and squats at the same time.

sry about the rambling lol it's late... anyways, thx for the read and replies!

 

[RenegadeRows]

I think it's a good concept to explore.

I usually alternate them, I'll do DL's one week and squats the next.

When I train both exercises in the same week, every week, it takes a harsh toll on my body that forces me to take a break.

 

[fritzer]

i used do periods of no deads for 4 weeks, then back in for 4 weeks
just me personally i would never give up squats and i also do straight leg deadlifts every week

--> but another great way is deadlift every other week, just so you dont get overrun.

--> or straight leg one week then deadlift the next

i won't diminish their importance, you gotta deadlift. but squats , deads, and straight leg is a lot of the same muscles and an easy way to burn not just your nerves out but get really fatigued over time (if you are going all out 110%)

reducing set volume works wonders as well. at least for me. 1 set of deads, 1 set straight leg, 1-2 sets squats a week

 

[BoyFromAus]

yea I don't do them both on the same cycle either. But my reason is different. It's because when i do, those two killers make me seem like a GirlFromAus in terms of recovery. Last year, I remember doing them in the same SESSION. I did 5 x 5 Deadlifts then followed it with 4 x 10 squats.... it took me 4 days to recover (wtf.. i know).

 

[jcp2]

If you want to do both try doing one set of deads for around 5 reps after you squat. The dead does not need a ton of volume.

 

[Chub]

If you want to do both try doing one set of deads for around 5 reps after you squat. The dead does not need a ton of volume.

i just love doing 10x10 deads

 

[RenegadeRows]

i just love doing 10x10 deads

masochist!? :wave2:

 

[Kristofer68SS]

monday deads
thursday squat

I have always seemed to get overall better growth doing both. However, i sometimes take the deadlift out for months a time. (duh factor- calories have to be there)

deadlifts for me, 6-8 sets tops, poundage and reps have an inverse relationship.

squats i do for at least 45mins if not hour+........ramp up, then back down to 135 and go nuts with the reps, stance and tempo variations.............

my legs have responded well to my training..........weak as a girl, but i got decent legs.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

masochist!? :wave2:

you rang?

 

[Chub]

haha!

 

[SRS2000]

I've had good luck doing both every week, but only go heavy on one of them. I train them both on Friday. So one Friday I do heavy SQ's and light DL's and the next week do light SQ's and heavy DL's. You can get the benefits of both exercises this way without killing yourself.

 

[HarryManback]

I didnt think you were supposed to do deads and squats the same time, mainly for your back. I know I couldnt anyway. I tried the old school Commy way of only maxing on deads once a month, and the rest of the time doing a reasonable 5x5. It helped for me to grow, as well as not wear me out so bad.

 

[time lord]

glad to know i'm not alone! and there i was thinking i was just a giant vagina for hating to do both in the same week. thanks guys.

 

[VolcomX311]

I'm currently doing squats, deads and incline/flat bench on the same day, but I'm just switching things up from the norm. I'm doing a little exploring myself.

 

[jcp2]

I didnt think you were supposed to do deads and squats the same time, mainly for your back. I know I couldnt anyway. I tried the old school Commy way of only maxing on deads once a month, and the rest of the time doing a reasonable 5x5. It helped for me to grow, as well as not wear me out so bad.

Who put this in stone. Actually the advantage of it is you get an entire week to recover from the CNS strain.

 

[HarryManback]

No one put it in stone. Just always "heard" that from "them". But personally my lower back couldn't do it. Also the next days workout would be affected, I would think, anyway.

 

[Kristofer68SS]

glad to know i'm not alone! and there i was thinking i was just a giant vagina for hating to do both in the same week. thanks guys.

if you really want a sandy vagina AND growth, do this for 16 weeks.

http://stronglifts.com/starting-strength/


squats twice and deads once

following week

deads twice and squats once


its madness i tell ya

 

[jcp2]

No one put it in stone. Just always "heard" that from "them". But personally my lower back couldn't do it. Also the next days workout would be affected, I would think, anyway.

You shouldn't be training the next day. Your back would be fine once it is conditioned for it. I know Goggins, and Chuck V both pull ahd squat in the same day, or have. They are both 1100 lb squatters and mid 800 pullers so the load on them is quite tramatic.

 

[VolcomX311]

I'm doing both in the same session right now. I actually find the static contraction from the squats warm up my erectors really well before I pull. The prime downfall I'm experiencing with this is general exhaustion.

 

[HarryManback]

Thats what I felt, was overall exhaustion. Day 1 was squats/legs and Day 2 was deads/back. I could barely get out of bed on Wednesday. Moved back to Fri and was more rested, and generally felt better. I actually need to change my dead workout anyway. I lifted every week for at least 3 months and only got up to a 405 max. So im no guru on the subject.

 

[VolcomX311]

Thats what I felt, was overall exhaustion. Day 1 was squats/legs and Day 2 was deads/back. I could barely get out of bed on Wednesday. Moved back to Fri and was more rested, and generally felt better. I actually need to change my dead workout anyway. I lifted every week for at least 3 months and only got up to a 405 max. So im no guru on the subject.

I'm not doing this for the purpose of maximal performance or effective hypertrophy. I'm doing it temporarily for metabolic revving, recomp and general test circulation. If maximal performance was my goal, I certainly wouldn't do both on the same day, but that's just me personally, my body isn't that tough and my muscles don't have that kind of stamina to do 85-90% 1RM on both enormously compound exercises.

 

[brownstown89]

YES! i mentioned this in a thread awhile back and it kinda got shot down by the usaual "shut up and squat" crowd... but i feel that barbell squat dont give me the pump burn etc. like machine squats. idk they just dont. especially with heavy deadlifts heavy bench and heavy squat. My shoulders and lower back get sore and eventually i feel like breaking down even if i only lift 3 days a week.

Deadlift heavy going 3 reps till i hit 50-75 pounds close to my max then i do ORM.. and work the rest of my back..

i do legs heavy with machines it has gotten me sweet pumps.

 

[jcp2]

YES! i mentioned this in a thread awhile back and it kinda got shot down by the usaual "shut up and squat" crowd... but i feel that barbell squat dont give me the pump burn etc. like machine squats. idk they just dont. especially with heavy deadlifts heavy bench and heavy squat. My shoulders and lower back get sore and eventually i feel like breaking down even if i only lift 3 days a week.

Deadlift heavy going 3 reps till i hit 50-75 pounds close to my max then i do ORM.. and work the rest of my back..

i do legs heavy with machines it has gotten me sweet pumps.

I can get "sweet pumps" by curling a 10 lb dumbell for an hour. Not sure if that is going to help me get bigger though.

 

[Rodja]

It depends on your rep range, recovery ability, and goals. I've done both in the same week for years, but once I started MMA, I pretty much scrapped that. I only occasionally do either of them anymore to save my lower back.

 

[MoTiV]

Definitely a killer on your CNS that's for sure. I found that when I make my own routines DLing every 2 weeks works perfect for me while maintaining my squats weekly, sometimes my deadlifts replace my squats depending on how many days a week I squat.

I've found replacing DL with racklifts and goodmornings for a cycle is very good for a change up and to absolutely destroy plateaus.

 

[brownstown89]

I can get "sweet pumps" by curling a 10 lb dumbell for an hour. Not sure if that is going to help me get bigger though.

well my goal isnt to have big legs that cant fit in jeans and rub against each other all day. i want decent size but im not trying to be 300 pounds of muscle either.

dorian yates even said he didnt do barbell squat because it didnt give him good enough growth. works for some not for others. id take dorians advice over urs tho no offense. :wave2:

 

[fritzer]

dorian yates got a small muscle tear that made him give up squats for quite some time, during the switch he found the hack squat machine and leg press gave him better growth.

everybody's body is different since we all have different proportions, etc.

i think the squat is very important as an overall mass builder. and i believe leg press etc has its place as well. but you need to remember unless you are training with intensity and form like dorian yates on those exercises you will not get the growth out of them that he did.

also, just because you dont get pumped on squats doesnt mean they are not simulating growth. you cannot use blood pump as an indicator for muscle growth.

if your back and shoulders hurt from squats some form checks may be in order

 

[brownstown89]

i just meant its a fact

heavy bench = sore shoulders
heavy deadlift = sore lower back
heavy squats= sore lower back

my problem is my squats respectable i think at least 365 at 175 pounds? but i dont have size. and i feel like i gain more size when i use the machines? because it takes stablizer muscles out and puts more focus on my legs which is my goal currently.

 

[fritzer]

you going ATG when you do the squats or at least below parallel?

 

[BoyFromAus]

i just meant its a fact

heavy bench = sore shoulders
heavy deadlift = sore lower back
heavy squats= sore lower back

my problem is my squats respectable i think at least 365 at 175 pounds? but i dont have size. and i feel like i gain more size when i use the machines? because it takes stablizer muscles out and puts more focus on my legs which is my goal currently.

That's crazy.. u must have some quite solid leg muscle. I'm 170lbs but I do 10 reps of 225 pounds (100kg) on the barbel squat.

 

[jcp2]

dorian yates got a small muscle tear that made him give up squats for quite some time, during the switch he found the hack squat machine and leg press gave him better growth.

everybody's body is different since we all have different proportions, etc.

i think the squat is very important as an overall mass builder. and i believe leg press etc has its place as well. but you need to remember unless you are training with intensity and form like dorian yates on those exercises you will not get the growth out of them that he did.

also, just because you dont get pumped on squats doesnt mean they are not simulating growth. you cannot use blood pump as an indicator for muscle growth.

if your back and shoulders hurt from squats some form checks may be in order

Dorian also squatted for 10 plus years prior to this.

Brownstone, try doing some high rep sets of hacks to around failure, like 2x20 then bust out a couple sets of squats.

Also if all you are getting is a sore lower back from pulling, you may have very week posterior which is very common and your hams and glutes can't take any of the load. I started deadlifting at 24 years old and could not deadlift 300 lbs properly.

 

[brownstown89]

Dorian also squatted for 10 plus years prior to this.

Brownstone, try doing some high rep sets of hacks to around failure, like 2x20 then bust out a couple sets of squats.

Also if all you are getting is a sore lower back from pulling, you may have very week posterior which is very common and your hams and glutes can't take any of the load. I started deadlifting at 24 years old and could not deadlift 300 lbs properly.

ive seen that in alot of bb routine hack squats and 2 x 20 range then squats. i might try that next time..

and my DL form is good not being cocky but we have a guy at my gym who pulled 700 or so at a show and he said my form was real impressive for a young one...i guess its the whole back thats sore after a back workout.

but i was thinking bout doing the hack squats then hitting back squats what rep ranges tho

 

[jcp2]

ive seen that in alot of bb routine hack squats and 2 x 20 range then squats. i might try that next time..

and my DL form is good not being cocky but we have a guy at my gym who pulled 700 or so at a show and he said my form was real impressive for a young one...i guess its the whole back thats sore after a back workout.

but i was thinking bout doing the hack squats then hitting back squats what rep ranges tho

I am not talking form so much, but your low back is taking the majority of the load when you pull. If your hams and glutes were stronger they may take more of the load, more like distributing the weight more evenly. It is just a guess. I have never had a sore low back from deadlifting or GM's in many years. My hams and glutes get real stiff usually. Not to mention the more your glutes and hams can take, the more weight you pull, and the more upper back stimulation you will get as well.

Not a lecture, just a guess. Unless someone does real posterior work every week thier posterior will be weak.

 

[brownstown89]

yo my hams are really stiff like they dont look huge but if i try to bring em up and touch my ass its pathetic i cant even get 1/2 way i dont think lol... and my asss is huge since i been deadlifting heavy.