Does this workout qualify as a Hardgainer routine?

[Flex55]

I am starting the following workout next week but want to make sure I am not under or over training my body. I will perform two sets per bodypart (1st set 8-10 reps, 2nd set 6-8 reps) with an additional warm-up set for major muscles (chest, back and legs). I also plan on resting two days between each workout.

Let me know what you think?

Day One: Pull
Back (Lats)
· Close Grip Pulldown
· Front Pulldown (alternate weekly)
Deltoid (Side)
· Lateral Raise
· Upright Row (alternate weekly)
Back (General)
· Bent-over Row
Trapezius (Upper)
· Shrug
Deltoid (Rear)
· Rear Lateral Raise
Biceps
· Curl
Brachialis
· Concentration Curl
· Preacher Curl (alternate weekly)
Brachioradialis
· Reverse Curl
· Hammer Curl

Day Two: Push
Chest (General)
· Bench Press
· Decline Bench Press (alternate weekly)
Chest (Upper)
· Incline Bench Press
Chest (General)
· Fly
· Pullover (alternate weekly)
Deltoid (Front)
· Arnold Press
· Shoulder Press (alternate weekly)
Triceps
· Close Grip Bench Press
· Lying Triceps Extension (alternate weekly)
Triceps
· One Arm Pushdown
· Kickback (alternate weekly)
Wrist Flexors
· Wrist Curl
Wrist Extensors
· Reverse Wrist Curl


Day Three: Legs
Quadriceps
· Squat
Quadriceps
· Lunge
· Hack Squat (alternate weekly)
Hamstrings
· Straight-leg Deadlift
Hamstrings
· on Leg Extension Machine
Hip Adductors
Hip Abductors
Calves (General)
· 45° Calf Raise
· Standing Calf Raise (alternate weekly)
Hip Flexors
· Leg Raise
Calves (Soleus)
· Seated Calf Raise
Tibialis Anterior
Abdominal
Obliques

 

[2gcorey]

you're kidding right?

i do no more then 4excersizes when i lift, i do a mon/wed/fri split. if i read that right you're doing like 9 excersizes per day. your leg day you cannot do at maximum intensity and finish that workout. i did 20rep squats and 2 sets of deadlifts and ripped my body apart. you're working the same muscles on many different excersizes, if you went 100% on the 1st excersize for that muscle there isn't much need to do more for that muscle. as for all your calf things i HIGHLY recommend doing doggcrapp's excersize for your calves. my calves have blown up TONS on it.

www.animalkits.be "realm of iron addict and doggcrap" and read the "cycles on pennies" thread. and all of it. then goto www.ironaddict.com and read it all! then make a routine! i bet its TONS different then what you just posted. also look for a thread titled "start of a new book" or something by iron addict it gives some good basic routines. i wouldn't consider the routine you mentioned above at all. i would WAY overtrain myself or else i'd have to go at very low intensity and then i think i'd be cheating myself.

go read those threads...

 

[intv]

I agree, your volume looks a little high for a hardgainer routine. Try to stick to basic, heavy compound movements. For Pull, I'd swap the pulldowns for pullups, drop the rear lat raises, and keep only one set of the curls. On Push, I'd swap the decline bench for dips (still alt. with flat bench), and drop the flys, pullovers and kickbacks altogether. Definitely lower the volume on your leg day as well, that leg day would KILL me!

 

[Kaliman91]

I think it is too hard to just say yes it is too much. I think this is something you need to find for yourself.
Do you like this routine? How long does this routine take you.....ie total time in the gym?
Many people require higher volume then some. I cant handle the higher volume.I just cant keep the intensity up after 50 to an hour.

I would say stick to what you like or are comfortable with for 6-8 weeks. If you are making gains stick with it. If your not then make the decision to go to a lower volume routine like these guys said.

But really nobody can answer this but you. Dont be affraid to try new things but be sure you give them plenty of time to start working.After 2 weeks you havent given the routine enough time to make a judgment.Keep at it for 6-8 weeks

 

[2gcorey]

if you don't go up in weights or rep EVERY time you enter the gym, you're overtraining. pure and simple

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I am not a big fan of the term hardgainer. I think the bodybuilding mags made it up to answer why people didn't look like the juiced pros.Any way here is my two sense.....
The best way to avoid over training is to keep your training session to about 45 minutes.(That is not including warm ups). Everyone's is different so you need to experiment and see what works for you. It's a good idea to change the reps/ sets/ rest time every three to 4 weeks. Most work out routines will work but will not be as affective as time goes on. Occasionally you will do one that will work really well. Some people make the mistake of looking for the holy grail. They think that there is only correct way to train which is a bunch of b.s. I did really well training with short sessions twice a day. I also made some really good progress on poliquins German volume training. Some HIT fanatics would loose it and say I was totally over training but I made some pretty good gains while doing it. The gains didn't last for ever but they worked for a while. Maybe some people wouldn't do so well on that kind of routine. I know HIT training never did a thing for me but some people swear by it. The best rule of thumb is change you routine once a month or if you hit a growth spurt change the routines when it stops. Just remember there is no perfect training routine and what works or doesn't for one person may or may not work for you. If you over train...... big deal take a week or two off. People can be so obsessive with training a week off would do them some good any way.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

You also didn't say how many sets you were doing of each.[/QUOTE]if you went 100% on the 1st excersize for that muscle there isn't much need to do more for that muscle.

There is because one set of 100 % isn't going hit all the motor units.

 

[Gethuge]

I am not a big fan of the term hardgainer. I think the bodybuilding mags made it up to answer why people didn't look like the juiced pros.Any way here is my two sense.....

Well lets see. The term hardgainer is really a misnomer. It refers to the "average, drug-free" trainee. The guy who goes to the gym year after year and makes little to no progress dispite what routine he uses.

It was first coined by a guy by the name of Stuart McRobert who wrote the book "Brawn" and later "Beyond Brawn." These books changes my life and that of many others. It actually took me out of the trash bin of crappy training routines that I had been using and got me gaining after years of frustration. It is also the book that laid the foundation for guys like IronAddict and DC. Two people who have earned quite a reputation as top trainers.

Just thought I'd straighten that out.

 

[Gethuge]

To answer your question: is that a true hardgainer routine? I'd have to say no. A hardgainer routine is bare bones simple. It runs with the idea that you concentrate on getting very strong on the big basic exercises.

If you are asking: will this routine work? That is a different question and depends on many other factors like your diet, training "intensity", rest, etc.

My advice: Try it and see. If it doesn't work cut it down a bit. If it still doesn't work cut it down some more. You'll eventually hit on something that will work if you are putting forth the necessary effort.

Best of luck.

Gethuge

 

[VanillaGorilla]

The term hardgainer was used long time before brawn came out. Most of the old bodybuilding mags used it well before Brawn was around. I believe it was published in the early 90's and has an HIT philosophy which I am not a big fan of. I remember the term being thrown around in the 80's.Hardgainer was used to anwer why people weren't getting any results lifting for 4 hours a day in a split routine like arnold used to. Back then they really didn't write about steriods very much if at all. This is why I am not a big fan of the term. There is a mental factor to weight lifting that IMO is over looked most of the time. Labling your self a hardgainer doesn't help. Most of the time there are factors that a hardgainer isn't doing or paying atention to. Such as not eating enough, picking exercises that aren't efective, spending to long in the gym....ect.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

Another suggestion.......... drop most of the machine and isolation exercises. Stick with the basic compound movements. For back stick with pull ups (both wide and close grip), bent over rows and dumbbell rows. Chest- bench press, incline press, dips.
Shoulders- push press or clean and press, side and rear lateral raise, shrugs. Bicepts- barbell curls, hammer curls, and reverse curls. Triceps- close grip bench, skull crushers, and dips. Legs- squat, deadlift, glute/ ham raise (IMO one of the best hamstring exersise there is), one leged squat if you can do them, lunges, straight leged d.l.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

a few more things ............ Post work out nutrition is very important. Get some whey isolate and mix it in with some carbs. The rule of thumb is a 2 to 1 ratio of carbs to protein. So 80 grams of a simple carb to 40 gr. whey. Drink it immediately after a work out.
If you want my advice ... if your goals is bodybuilding try this German vol. routine for a month and see how it works for you. It worked well for me and most people that I have talked to.I think you will get better results than a one set per bodypart routine. Remember most routines work for a while and absolutely no routine works forever. Weightlifting is not a religion. For some reason many of the people who use HIT seem to forget this.
http://www.charlespoliquin.net/articles/german-volume-training.html
Again... compound movements, keep your work outs under 45 min, post workout nutrition, get enough sleep, make sure you eat enough, and keep cardio to a minimum or cut out totally, and change the variables of routines once a month.

 

[jjjd]

imnsho, claiming one is a 'hardgainer' is mainly an excuse for the lazy, cowardly, or undisciplined. with very few exceptions. imo, the reason why most people make minimal gains after their beginner's honeymoon with the iron is over, is due to lack of discipline, courage, good diet, etc. while i am not a fan of extremely high volume, people have a lot more capacity for hard work AND volume than most hardgainer devotees will admit. the human body is remarkably adaptable. also, when most people refer to so called "over training" they are usually referring to overreaching, not overtraining. there IS a difference. and in fact, targeted periods OF overreaching can have great benefits. the term is supercompensation.

imo, as a general rule, weight workouts of 30 min to 60 min are a good range to stick in. and as far as sets, i think 8-16 sets of compound type movements is a good max for a workout, with another 4-8 sets of isolation if so desired. I realize there is no such thing as TRUE isolation movements, but we all know what we mean by isolation. as a general rule, sticking to 20 or less sets per workout is a good idea for a natural trainee.

this is for general weight training type of workout. more specific workouts such as OLer training or GPP is another story.

 

[Gethuge]

imnsho, claiming one is a 'hardgainer' is mainly an excuse for the lazy, cowardly, or undisciplined. with very few exceptions. imo, the reason why most people make minimal gains after their beginner's honeymoon with the iron is over, is due to lack of discipline, courage, good diet, etc.

Very, very few people have actually pissed me off on forums but this has managed it. You obviously have never felt as most hardgainers have. Imagine training your ass off day in and day out for years, eating enough food to kill a horse (i got the nickname of the "tupperware man" in high school) and never doing anything in life that might affect your training and yet still gain nothing. I remember spending years not going out to bars because it would negatively impact my training and diet.

I also remember days of doing triple drop sets for legs and not being able to walk to the change room afterwards. I sat on the floor next to the leg press machine and waited for enough strength to return so that I could make my way to the showers.

I would stack my dedication up against any pro bodybuilder at that stage of my life. But imagine my surprise when I realized that what I was doing, all the hard work, was not taking me anywhere. I sacrificed like that for 6 years to gain 10 pounds of muscle! For what? To have some lame ass on a forum call me undisciplined! Since that time I have since switched to hardgainer methods and have finally managed to move myself up to actually looking like a bodybuilder and up to this point have done it all natural. I am not insulted by your disapproval of hardgainer methods but to say we are all lazy, that's just a lame ass way of praising yourself for your "dedication." Stuff it where your head is.....up your ass!

 

[jjjd]

i am not trying to "piss you off". as i said, this applies to people "with very few exceptions". quite possibly, you are one of those "very few exceptions". that's fine. i didn't say hardgainers did not exist at all. i said that imo, many who claim to be hardgainers are not.

whatever dood. what i find ridiculous is that you cannot have a rational discussion without resorting to name calling and attacks. this is not about individuals, it's about concepts. if you are so insecure that you have to resort to name calling and swearing when somebody dares to challenge your belief system, then that is a psychological problem i don't need to deal with. these fora are about discussion and exchange of ideas. if you want to be reassured that you are loved and can do no wrong, get a dog.

fwiw, if what you say is true about your lack of progress, maybe it's hormonal. did you ever get a bloodworkup done - free t, adrenal factors, thyroid factors, etc.

hardgainers DO exist, they are just not as common as the hardgainer jedis would like us to believe

hth

 

[2gcorey]

jjjd are you related to a guy named bellicose?

 

[2gcorey]

jjjd since most think they can do what the pro's do and most people train like they do and get nowhere its kinda common to call them hardgainers, when in fact i'd say they are normal. but if thats what most people call it then so be it. since most people can't do what the pro's do and gain weight or go anywhere i think most people would fall into the "hardgainer" catagory, but everyone is different. the guy asked for some damn help with his log not for you to come in here and give an english lesson into the term hardgainer and thats all it comes down to. start a log on the definition of hardgainer in "off-topic" if thats whats you want to get into, this is about HIS log, not definitions...and especially not "they are lazy, undiscplined, etc..." if you're not one of them how the hell would you know anyway?

 

[Gethuge]

i didn't say hardgainers did not exist at all. i said that imo, many who claim to be hardgainers are not.

.....what i find ridiculous is that you cannot have a rational discussion without resorting to name calling and attacks. this is not about individuals, it's about concepts. if you are so insecure that you have to resort to name calling and swearing when somebody dares to challenge your belief system, then that is a psychological problem i don't need to deal with.

Whoa...hold up there. As stated in my post I have no problem with people questioning my ideas. That's fine, everyone is free to an opinion and there are many valid ones...no one person is correct in most cases regarding training. However I did strongly resent being referred to as "lazy" and "undisciplined."

None the less I will appologize for the rash statement. Just be carefull how you refer to bros in the mean time. Peace.

 

[jjjd]

i wasn't referring to YOU.

let me quote what i said

"imnsho, claiming one is a 'hardgainer' is mainly an excuse for the lazy, cowardly, or undisciplined. with very few exceptions. imo, the reason why most people make minimal gains after their beginner's honeymoon with the iron is over, is due to lack of discipline, courage, good diet, etc. "


Note: "exceptions", and "MOST people".

those are what is known as qualifiers.

i did not say what you think i said about YOU, since obviously you could be one of those exceptions, or not part of the "most"

and again, YOU said that you got pissed off. that is your problem not mine. if you get pissed off when people say something that challenges your beliefs about training, that is not my fault.

i am not trying to piss you, or anybody off. and i certainly have not attacked anybody. i have challenged certain ideas, which i note were not even proposed as OPINIONS, but simply as fact. that was IA's doing. i am stating my counter-opinion, and i am (unlike him) stating them AS opinions.

to make this clear, i did NOT refer to any bros here as lazy or undisciplined. and a careful, unbiased reading of my posts will make that abundantly clear.

 

[Gethuge]

i wasn't referring to YOU.

I got ya bro. But.....


"....claiming one is a 'hardgainer' is mainly an excuse for the lazy, cowardly, or undisciplined. with very few exceptions.

Understand why I took offence? Even though it doesn't refer directly to ME....it does give reference to the majority of bros in my situation. Which of course implies that I myself am a member of that group. Lets face the fact that the vast majority of people don't switch to this type of routine unless they have no choice....we love training too much for that.

Okay, you probably noticed my response in red. Anyways shall we end this and allow the convo to get back on topic?

 

[jjjd]

sure.

my opinion about so-called hardgainers stands. and fwiw, for the true 'hardgainers' i would strongly recommend full blood workups. low T, messed up thyroid, etc. could be the reasons for the diminished training capacity.

what strongly irks me is how people take things personally. i did not attack ANYBODY, yet i got attacked for stating an opinion about training methodology. are we in this forum to hold each other's hands and sing kumbaya, or to discuss ideas, many of which (lord forbid) compete with each other in the marketplace of ideas.

this is not (thank God) bodybuilding.com

and for 2gcorey, i have personally trained clients, helped others, and trained with many. so, my comments about lazy, undisciplined, etc. is spot on in regards to my observations. for pete's sake,as a nation we are disproportionately obese. that says something about laziness and lack of discipline. 2gcorey, you sound exactly like a hit jedi in your defense of your position, the same "if you aren't one of us, you wouldn't understand", and i don't buy it, so spare me.

now, back to our regularly scheduled programming.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

In my experience what JJJD said is true. I can't the amount of times when someone came up to me and told them they are a "hardgainer". After talking with them they it usually has to do with training, nutrition, or life style. When you make a suggestion like cutting down their work out time from two hours to 45 minutes, eat more calories, stop drinking every night which lowers testosterone, get more sleep, cut out cardio, try some supplements, or changing the variants in their routine they just go back to what they are doing and don't listen and keep complaining that they can't put on any muscle.
The term hardgainer does not mean "average, drug-free" trainee" it means some one who has a hard time gaining muscle. No one in here was advocating training like a pro either. When you label you self with this term you telling yourself no matter what I do I can't put on muscle. What ever you believe it true for you and the mind plays a greater role in training in everyday life than you think. The people on this thread are getting mad because what is being said about training is threatening their belief system. For some reason this type of behavior seems to be prevalent on people who use HIT. I think what happens is someone is following a routine of a bodybuilder who has a pharmaceutical factory in his body. They are totally over training but when they switch to an HIT type of training protocol they start seeing results. They then mistake HIT training for the holy grail of training. Doing one set is not enough to stimulate muscle growth. It takes more than one set to hit motor units and stimulate muscle fibers. In my experience doing one working set per body part will only work for a short period of time and it's usually after some high volume work or when some was over training that it is most effective.
Another misconception people have is lack of progress does not equal over training. It might mean that your body has adapted to the routine you were doing and it's time to change it. I think it was Charles Stanley who said something to the effect of the best training routine is the opposite one that you doing. If your getting great results doing 20 sets of 15 reps an exercise resting 30 seconds between sets and it stops being as effective, change it to 6 reps and tens sets resting 3 minutes between sets. There is no holy grail of training. All training routines will work for a short period of time.No one person knows 100 % every thing there is to know about one subject. I will say that I have found the worst routines are in body building mags and the best routines have come from people who have an education in the field such as strength coaches. That being said Who ever you like be it a message board guru or a PhD in exercise physiology is not immune from being wrong. The fast way to weed out if someone know what their taking about is if they have a philosophy of "there is only one way to train". If they have a philosophy at worst they are full of **** and at best they are extremely closed minded. Either way, it leads to a lack of results for you.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

One more thing............... I do know what it's like to not make progress in the gym. I labeled my self as a hardgainer. I continued to read the mags and experiment. At this point in time steroids were not talked about at all in bodybuilding mags and I thought that all the pros were natural (I was young give me a break). I don't remember were I came across it but I read two interesting things. One was that about 40 to 45 minutes in to training the anabolic hormones start to decrease and catabolic hormones start to increase. Another was that cardio training was the polar opposite of weight training and it would sap results from lifting. I cut out cardio and cut my work out time to 45 minutes. Then a funny thing happened.................. I started gaining size and strength......... fast. I just don't buy the hardgainer label. Are there people who put on muscle easier than others? Sure. Can these people get results continually from training 4 sets per work out year round? I really don't think so. IMO if it is really as you say it is get some blood work done as JJJD suggested because there could be something wrong.

 

[Gethuge]

If your definition of hardgainer is the popular belief on this board then I am sorry. We hold very different beliefs. The term hardgainer came from Stuart McRobert (before Brawn came into being Stuart coined the term in articles that he wrote which started catching attention.)

To move back to topic the origionator of the thread was asking a simple question "is this a hardgainer routine." We've strayed from that by a long shot. A hardgainer routine is one as suggested in Brawn, Beyond Brawn, Hardgainer magazine or a similar source. I would like to get a few things straight though:

1) Hardgainer routines are NOT long. In fact Stuart preaches the merits of shorter routines to a MAX of 1 hour and preferably less.

2) Hardgainer style is not equal to HIT. Though the two share some ideas the hardgainer methedology is much more open minded than true HIT.

3) To quote Stuart "Hardgainer magazine" and "Brawn" are aimed at the "rationale behind drug-free training for typical people" because "if you are a genetically tipical bodybuilder you will have gotten little or no satisfaction from your training whilst using conventional training methods."

The misunderstanding here is coming from interpretations of the term. Myself and Flex55 are refering to the training methods McRobert. The "label" hardgainer is actually an empowering term when used in that context because it actually offers hope to those who are frustrated with there previous attempts at weight training.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

The term hardgainer came from Stuart McRobert (before Brawn came into being Stuart coined the term in articles that he wrote which started catching attention.)

Sorry I don't think that is not true. Go pick up a bodybuilding mag from the 80's. The term is even used in one of wieders books from 1985. I could be wrong but that really isn't the issue. Regardless who came up with the term that isn't what were are debating.

The "label" hardgainer is actually an empowering term

Is telling yourself that it is difficult to put on muscle an empowering term? Have you ever seen someone put under hypnosis and told nothing can move their arm while they are holding it out. People can literally hang from the persons arm. What would happen if they were told that they have a weak arm? In a few minutes that persons arm would go from immovable to limp. It's the same principle as "hardgainer". You belong to a religion that revolves around the Brawn philosophy. In your belief this are the only way for you to train. I don't really care how you train. You say it works for you that's great. I have a hard time beiliving that you can keep growing doing only 4 sets a work out. I think you would get better results changing it up more. What I do have a problem with is giving a person advice when you are locked in to a particular philosophy. Then kind of fly off the handle when someone presents an opposing view point.
Another thing that is perplexing is you said

Imagine training your ass off day in and day out for years, eating enough food to kill a horse (i got the nickname of the "tupperware man" in high school) and never doing anything in life that might affect your training and yet still gain nothing.

Gaining weight is pretty simple. You eat more calories than your maintenance level and you gain weight. So there are two possibilities.
1. Maybe you weren't eating as much as you though you were because if you were eating enough like a horse you should have put on weight.
2. You have a problem, possibly with your thyroid.

 

[Gethuge]

What ever man. The "Brawn philosophy" as you call it is more open minded than the vast majority of systems out there. It allows reduced volume, higher volume, low and high repetition schemes, differing frequency, etc. The only catch is that it teaches the trainee how to gauge their training volume and frequency and then alter it to match their recuperative abilities. Have you ever actually read "Beyond Brawn"?

Though the book does give the authors opinion on training frequency and volume he also states that calculated experimentation with further frequency and volume be attempted to access the trainee's ability to recuperate.

 

[Gethuge]

Lets make this real simple. If the hardgainer philosophy could be summed up in a single paragraph it would read something like this.

"Begin at the very minimum of exercise and access results. If results are not produced then increase until changes are noted. Increasing beyond the minimum required may or may not increase results but could still be attempted to test ones individual limits."

 

[jjjd]

this is reasonable. there is also a principle in business (forget the name) that applies (to some extent) to weight training as well. it is basically a modification of the diminishing returns principle. --- you can get 80% of the results with 20% of the effort. while the #'s can be arguable, the point is valid, that there is a "sweet spot" on the cost/benefit curve wherein more time/volume will only give minimally more gains. at the competitive level (like a bulgarian wl'er) that extra 2% of performance IS worth the 6 days a week of working out and squatting 2X a day.

also realizing that a VERY small %age of trainees can handle that type of workload AND it takes years to work up to a tolerance of that volume

something that brawn etc. (to the best of my recollection) do not take into account is the concept of supercompensation and that it is good (to some extent) to occasionally OVERreach (what some would call overtrain) in order to promote supercompensation.

i have used this principle before, and it works. i would think a hardgainer philosopher would be hard pressed to accept the concept of PURPOSEFULLY overdoing it.

which is what supercompensation depends on

 

[Gethuge]

You have a point there jjjd. Hardgainer in general would not push to the point of overreaching. This is not normally proposed to such people for one very simple reason: The typical hardgainer is the person who spent years constantly overreaching which of course led to overtraining. The problem becomes that they often (myself included) have problems with drawing the line and cutting back again. Although Stuart himself does recommend periods of higher volume but suggests putting a time restraint on such training (like a certain number of weeks) before cutting back again to more a moderate approach.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

The typical hardgainer is the person who spent years constantly overreaching which of course led to overtraining.

That is why they are so sucsessful when they switch to an HIT or super low volume. They are either over training or have adapted. The mistake they make is thinking the results they get initially equal the only way to train. Progress in keeping gains is kind of like surfing in a way. You constanly have to be adjusting. Just say like most people pick up Arnolds book. They start training like he did training six days a week twice a day doing 50 sets a body part in the 8 to ten rep range. A work out routine will bring you to the over training thresh hold pretty quick. It would make sense to back off this routine and do a lower volume in a few weeks. You constantly need to be zig zagging..... 3 weeks hight volume....3 weeks low and so on.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I haven't read Brawn. I just know from reading a few articles about it that he was an advocate of a low volume aproach. It's good to hear he's not as dogmatic as some people....cough Menzer. Just understand that the low volume aproach won't work for ever like any training program.

 

[jjjd]

Vanilla Gorilla, you SURF? now i know why i agree with your philosophy of training. you must have the wisdom of the waterman. I spent MANY an hour surfing waves all over this hemisphere. when I started weight training, i had a surfing, running, and swimming background. pullups were EASY. Unfortunately, i no longer surf primarily due to geography, but just started snowboarding.

 

[VanillaGorilla]

I have always been in the wrong geography myself to take up surfing, though if I ever move to a warmer place I would like to take it up. Just seems like a good analogy for progress in the gym.

 

[tatortodd]

You really have to have your diet tuned to not get catabolic while surfing. It's extremely taxing paddling out through the surf, and then paddling to catch a wave.

~Todd