# of sets compared to # of reps for routines

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    # of sets compared to # of reps for routines


    Sup guys, Question?

    My old routine was a 10-8-6-4, if I went more on the reps it bonus, I used that for everything no matter what body part I was training. I seen/read many routines, Last night I tried 5x5's, ya know 5 sets, 5 reps for every set. and of course I was able to push more weight. I enjoyed it because It was different. I just want to make sure Im not short changing myself, for example last night i did

    flat
    incline
    decline
    cable flys
    and three tri w/o's

    all 5x5's compared to my 10-8-6-4

    What are your thoughts? Im trying to stay to the more lean side and gain lbm, compared to straight up bulking, this is due to my job.

    Any thoughts, or is what i did last night fine?

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    Generally, there should be an inverse relationship between the reps per set, and the number of sets you have..

    For example:

    on strength days, 5-10 sets of 1-5 is not unheard of

    on days where the focus is hypertrophy, 2-5 sets of 6-20 is normal.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Generally, there should be an inverse relationship between the reps per set, and the number of sets you have..

    For example:

    on strength days, 5-10 sets of 1-5 is not unheard of

    on days where the focus is hypertrophy, 2-5 sets of 6-20 is normal.
    ozarka thanks for the reply,

    So then ,am I correct saying I can build up strength and muscle by doing these 5x5's or should I kick it up another rep its seems liek the 5x5's almost fall in both category's
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    ozarka thanks for the reply,

    So then ,am I correct saying I can build up strength and muscle by doing these 5x5's or should I kick it up another rep its seems liek the 5x5's almost fall in both category's
    Well, if your goal is to build both relative strength, and muscle, I'd say the 5x6 range would be better, using a tempo of 402.
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    or maybe keeping the 5x5's on monday, then on fridays kick up the reps then? this way hitting both in the same week
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Well, if your goal is to build both relative strength, and muscle, I'd say the 5x6 range would be better, using a tempo of 402.

    ok cool, I was thinking the same once I read you post, now I have to ask what is a 402 tempo?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    or maybe keeping the 5x5's on monday, then on fridays kick up the reps then? this way hitting both in the same week
    I like this idea much better.

    I would do something like this:

    10x3 for a lower body day, and an upper body day

    then 5x8 on hypertrophy days.

    This way, you're mixing it up and not doing the same thing every day.. It's basically a form of periodization that changes as the week goes on..
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    Quote Originally Posted by Liftergym33 View Post
    ok cool, I was thinking the same once I read you post, now I have to ask what is a 402 tempo?
    First number (4) refers to the length of time for the eccentric portion of the lift
    Second number (0) is how long you keep the weight static (at the bottom of a bench press, for example)
    Third number (2) is how long you take for the concentric phase of the lift
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    I like this idea much better.

    I would do something like this:

    10x3 for a lower body day, and an upper body day

    then 5x8 on hypertrophy days.

    This way, you're mixing it up and not doing the same thing every day.. It's basically a form of periodization that changes as the week goes on..
    alright then, Im goign to start playing with it I do appreciate your suggestions!, I have to start playing with the weights/lbs, finding what days i want to change ect. ect
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    First number (4) refers to the length of time for the eccentric portion of the lift
    Second number (0) is how long you keep the weight static (at the bottom of a bench press, for example)
    Third number (2) is how long you take for the concentric phase of the lift
    got it!
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    Glad I could help!

    I got a lot of this info from a book by Charles Poliquin.. I can hook you up with the PDF if you'd like.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Glad I could help!

    I got a lot of this info from a book by Charles Poliquin.. I can hook you up with the PDF if you'd like.
    sure! I'll pm you my email addy Thanks!
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    OK so I'm working on uploading that PDF for you guys.. it's a big file so it's taking a loong time. Email route wouldn't work, I assume this is due to the size of the file.
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    Ah yes, here we are

    edit: not really, how the hell do I get this thing to work!?
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    Here we go dammit.. download and enjoy!

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CPM0136W
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    Thanks man...Once I get my web server back up I'll post it up there for other people...
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    Quote Originally Posted by SoCo4Fun View Post
    Thanks man...Once I get my web server back up I'll post it up there for other people...
    Suweeet. It's a good read, for sure.
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    I like this idea much better.

    I would do something like this:

    10x3 for a lower body day, and an upper body day

    then 5x8 on hypertrophy days.

    This way, you're mixing it up and not doing the same thing every day.. It's basically a form of periodization that changes as the week goes on..
    That almost exactly describes my workout. I'll even mix it up even more, doing 8-10x3, 4-5x6, 5-6x10, and a 5x12 each one workout per week, but I use full body workouts and so the mix-up prevents overtraining and adaption.

    Even with a split, though, it's a great way to keep thing fresh and gain strength and size simultaneously.
    Bulk Performance Solutions
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    Quote Originally Posted by ozarkaBRAND View Post
    Here we go dammit.. download and enjoy!

    http://www.megaupload.com/?d=CPM0136W

    Sweet, thanks for putting this up!
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    Hey Resolve
    could you post your workout?! im looking for a new routine and yours sounds good? thanks
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    Ive often contemplated this routine.

    UPPER / LOWER

    workout A = upper strength (5x5 or 3x3)
    workout B = lower strength (5x5 or 3x3)
    workout C = upper hypertrophy (3x8-15)
    workout D = lower hypertrophy (3x8-15)

    So, basically 3 days a week

    monday = workout A
    Wed. = workout B
    Fri = workout C

    Monday = workout D
    wed. = workout A
    fri = workout B

    etc...etc
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    also look for the username keethnaab (?) on bb.com. He has a pretty good routine devised from westside principles. It incorporates westside and bodybuilding together. I think he called it WSFBB. Ill post it later. Even IA (iron addict) agreed on the routine and liked it from what I thought.

    thanks
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    Quote Originally Posted by msucurt View Post
    also look for the username keethnaab (?) on bb.com. He has a pretty good routine devised from westside principles. It incorporates westside and bodybuilding together. I think he called it WSFBB. Ill post it later. Even IA (iron addict) agreed on the routine and liked it from what I thought.

    thanks
    Sounds pretty cool.. Please post up
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    Sorry for such a delay. I forgot about this topic. Regardless, i do believe i will start this routine come monday. I think it does a great job of balancing strength and mass in one program. It is very tweakable too. I will post my exercises later, but here is the basic template and definitions.

    I would personally do a M-W-F setup and float the 4th workout to the next monday. Lots of recovery time and will help tremendously. Have fun.

    read up on the Westside program before asking questions like "what is a concentric good morning" or "what is a box squat" or "what does ME and RE stand for".

    Basically, you take the Westside template, tweek the ME day to triples instead of singles (5RM is not used here) and make some changes to focus for supplementary work. It is based on an 8-day cycle (day on, day off) but can be modified so that RE days are back-to back (i.e. M-W-F-Sa)

    In the end, this looks strikingly like a basic "upper/lower heavy/light" type setup, but in it's simplest (VERY simplest) base, that's what Westside is. ME day is "heavy day" and DE day is "light" day (not exactly, but you get the point). IF you've ever seen one of the upper/lower splits I frequently recommend, this should look pretty familiar.

    The sets are determined by your own workload capacity. If you need more sets or less sets, then cool, the workload that I've posted is what I have been able to do. Obviously, you would adjust this as needed to suit your own weakpoints, but this is NOT a program that is going to work for people with poor workload capacity, or weak lower backs.

    There is A LOT OF LOWER BACK WORK. If your lower back is not up to this, recommend using supported rows (1-arm DB, hammer, supported T-bar, etc) or "easier rows" (cable rows) of some sort while you condition your lower back.

    Here is the template, keep rest periods as short as you can on everything other than the specific ME exercises. Adjust sets as needed, drink water, take your vitamins, say your prayers, etc. etc.

    Day 1 - ME Day - upper
    ME press variant - 1 x 3 100% ME, 2 x 3 >90% 3RM
    weighted chinup 4 x 5-6
    basic press variant - 3 x 5-6
    Pendlay row - 4 x 5-6
    lying extensions - 2 x 10-15 (rotate angles every 2-3 weeks)
    laterals - 2 x 10-15

    Recommended ME press variants = CGBP, RGBP, MedGBP, Low Incline BP (rotate every 1-3 weeks)
    Recommended basic press variants = any angle DB press, any ME press variant, overhead presses - use this to cover "weak spots" in upper body "push" muscles, rotate as needed

    Day 3 - ME Day - lower
    ME GM/pull- 1 x 3 100% ME, 2 x 3 >90% 3RM
    ME Squat variant - 4 x 5
    reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
    ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
    laterals - 2 x 10-15

    ME GM/pulls = concentric GM, seated GM, DL from floor, rack pull, platform pull (rotate every 1-3 weeks)
    Recommended ME squat variants = front squat, ATG, SSB, sumo, heels-touching, box squats (rotate as needed to keep knees happy)

    Day 5 - RE Day - upperRE main press - 3 x 8
    BTN pullup - 4 x 8-12 (no extra weight...add "pause" at top to keep rep range)
    RE press variant - 3 x 8
    Yates rows - 4 x 8-12 (pauses at gut)
    1-arm BB curls - 2 x 10-12
    laterals - 2 x 10-15

    Recommended RE Main Press - flat bench (YES!! THE KING!), decl DB, incl DB, flat DB, weighted dips (rotate as needed)
    RE press variant - any RE main press, any basic press variant - use to improve weak points and maintain "forward progress" in training

    Day 7 - RE Day - lower
    RE squat - 5 x 8
    RE GM/pull - 4 x 10
    reverse hypers - 3 x 8-12
    ghetto GHR - 3 x 8-12
    laterals - 2 x 10-15

    RE squat - any ME squat variation, *20-rep squats can be used here as well, but reduce # of sets
    RE GM/pull - regular GM, sumo SLDL, conventional SLDL, RDL - pick your favorite

    if you decide to use chains or especially bands for the various exercises for accomodating resistance, you will almost definitely NEED to reduce sets. If you need additional triceps work, you can add chains or bands to your bar presses as well. Chains/bands during squats will maintain direct tension on the quads throughout the range of motion.

    ============================== ============================== ===

    Specific adaptations to each day:

    ME Day - press = The ME exercise is a press that hits all 3 of the "push" muscle groups in the upper body (pecs, front delts and tris'). Maxing (even for a triple) with the basic "pectoral bench press" can give a lot of people problems, so the exercises selected are generally pretty easy on the shoulder joint overall. WS focuses heavily on triceps strength because they use bench shirts and want to get the highest bench possible. Since the average BB will not be using a shirt, the primary supplementary exercise will be a pectoral builder (and periodically an overhead press), although CGBP is an exercise of choice and is a triceps smoker.
    The "basic press variant" can be any of the ME exercises, or a DB exercise of whichever angle makes you happy. Periodically, rotate in an overhead press here for supplementary work, especially if you feel your delts need more work.
    Lat work includes a close grip chinup and a wide grip row, alternated with the presses. If you are in good enough shape to perform these exercises in an alternating (or supersetting) set fashion, then more power to you.

    You finish the day with the best single-joint triceps exercise in existence (Rotate angle of the bench every few weeks to keep elbows happy) for higher reps (keeps the elbows happier) and cable laterals, which are done every day for 2 sets of 10+ reps. I experimented with this, and with all the heavy pressing and pulling, direct deltoid work ends up being unnecessary, with the exception of the lateral head. The cable reduces the drain on recovery and allows for a pretty direct stimulation.

    ME Day - Lower - start off with a pull or a GM, both of which are very easily adapted for a max effort triple. This also ensures that a good emphasis is given to hamstrings and posterior chain, which are weak on damn near EVERYBODY. Next up is a squat variant, pick your poison, keep your knees happy. Reverse hypers and ghetto GHR finish off the posterior chain and hammies with "lighter" higher rep work as compared to the heavy pull or GM you started off with and, of course, the cable laterals for delts.

    DE Days - these are changed to "RE days", which are essentially high rep days. I include the flat BP with higher reps, lower weight on press day, which shouldn't put anybody's shoulder into a coma, but really, you modify this to suit your needs. If you want to do inclines or whatever, then go for it. I won't be offended. Lat work includes a wide grip pullup and a close grip row. 20-rep squats can be included on the DE lower body day, but I wouldn't recommend doing 5 sets of them. Hammie-specific exercise is next, then of course, reverse hypers and GHR.

    Ghetto GHR are performed with heels underneath the knee-pads on the pulldown machine. Place your knees onto a movable flat bench, and using bodyweight (or weight, if you're a stud), lower yourself under control until you are parallel to the ground, then pull yourself back up. Layne Norton (aka str8flexed) has a nice video or two demonstrating this exercise. If you have a "real" GHR bench, then use that one if you like. Reverse hypers are done with the reverse hyper machine. If you don't have one, use a 45-degree hyper or a basic hyper, if that's all you have. Try to focus on your hamstrings here. Plate-heel pulls are a concentric-only exercise where you sit with your leg extended and use the heel of your foot to pull a plate toward you. Nice way to help hammies, no negative means low drain on recovery.
  

  
 

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